Hatrack River
Home   |   About Orson Scott Card   |   News & Reviews   |   OSC Library   |   Forums   |   Contact   |   Links
Research Area   |   Writing Lessons   |   Writers Workshops   |   OSC at SVU   |   Calendar   |   Store
E-mail this page
Hatrack River Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Discussions About Orson Scott Card » Connection between Formic Wars and Earth Unaware

   
Author Topic: Connection between Formic Wars and Earth Unaware
Craig Childs
Member
Member # 5382

 - posted      Profile for Craig Childs   Email Craig Childs         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I just got both volumes of Formic Wars (the Marvel graphic novel) from Amazon, but haven't read them yet.

Does the upcoming novel Earth Unaware cover the same story/events of the comic? Is there going to be a new series of novels? Will they all cover the events of the comics?

Posts: 157 | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DustinDopps
Member
Member # 12640

 - posted      Profile for DustinDopps           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Earth Unaware is the same story as the first graphic novel. But having read the graphic novel first, the book is much, much better. I assume there will be a new novel to cover the events in the second graphic novel.
Posts: 139 | Registered: Sep 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
millernumber1
Member
Member # 9894

 - posted      Profile for millernumber1   Email millernumber1         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No, actually, the book covers the first three or so issues of the first graphic novel - the trilogy will cover the events of the 12 issues. But the books are much expanded. However, for those of us who are impatient, it's very nice to see the direction of the story - and by the end, I was really engaged with the characters.

Hopefully we'll get a second set/standalone about the second Formic War!

Posts: 314 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DustinDopps
Member
Member # 12640

 - posted      Profile for DustinDopps           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That might be true, actually. I'm about 4/5 of the way through the novel and you're right - it doesn't cover all of the first graphic novel.

But it *does* enhance what was in the comics. Now I want to go back and re-read them.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Sep 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DustinDopps
Member
Member # 12640

 - posted      Profile for DustinDopps           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Aaaaand... I just re-read the first graphic novel and I had forgotten a lot of it. It is quite a bit different (both in terms of plot and chronology) from the novel, but still the same story.

Since comics are a limited medium, I'd have to say the novel is a lot, lot better. But it was still cool to read the comics after the novel - some of the artwork made more sense than it did the first time I read it.

I recommend both!

Posts: 139 | Registered: Sep 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jeff C.
Member
Member # 12496

 - posted      Profile for Jeff C.           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've heard mixed things about the book so far. What's good about it? Anything bad? How does it compare to the other Ender/Bean books?
Posts: 1226 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DustinDopps
Member
Member # 12640

 - posted      Profile for DustinDopps           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The good:

The characters are typical OSC - they feel alive and complex. There are three main story lines and each has a different feel: one is about a community of miners in space, one is about the heir of a major corporation trying out a new device in space, and one is about an elite team of soldiers who spend their time helping the world wherever they are needed. The first two story lines intersect quite a bit, while the third takes place on earth and isn't connected to the others yet.

Also good: the story doesn't shy away from death and tragedy. Even though we know the humans will win (otherwise "Ender's Game" would never have taken place), events have weight and people are affected.

The book seemed more story-oriented than other recent Ender books. "Shadows in Flight" and "Ender In Exile" felt a bit like they were trying to fill holes in the story. This book feels like a unique story.

The bad:

It ends on a cliffhanger. Having read the comics, I don't mind, because I know the rest of the story. But seriously - there is little-to-no resolution in "Earth Unaware." It's fine, but it is noticeable.

The other bad: several reviewers have complained about the technology in the book. I personally had no issues with it, but you should be aware those criticisms exist. For example, I read one reviewer who questioned why a spaceship would need to come to a "full stop" in space. Another questioned the way magnets are used, although they didn't provide details as to *why* the tech was bad.

That's it. I can't think of any other negatives.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Sep 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
millernumber1
Member
Member # 9894

 - posted      Profile for millernumber1   Email millernumber1         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I agree with Dustin that structurally it's quite weak - you can definitely tell they're working from an outline of a longer series, and just broke the book here.

That being said, so did Xenocide. :-)

However, the characters have all the trademark Card introspection, and the worldbuilding is incredibly fun (and, as I keep muttering, Heinleinesque in a great way).

Perhaps one bad thing is that the characters, for all that they are very fun, aren't quite as gripping yet as Ender, Bean, Jane, Miro, Petra, etc. I'm sure they'll get there (they did in the comics, and they had a major disadvantage of not having thought processes open to the reader), but right now I'm at the "I really like these people" rather than "I adore these people and must know more" which is where I was with Bean and Ender after one book.

Posts: 314 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Craig Childs
Member
Member # 5382

 - posted      Profile for Craig Childs   Email Craig Childs         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm about half-way through the comics, and at first I was very impressed with the story. Then, I went back and re-read the parts of Ender's Game that told the history of the Formic Wars.

It seems Card and Johnston decided to ignore the events of the First Invasion, as originally told in EG. I could understand a few continuity errors, but this will probably require a rewrite of several passages in a future edition of EG.

1. In EG, we learned the first battle of the First Invasion occurred on Eros. The Formics had made Eros their forward base of operations, and they blacked it out so we (humans) couldn't see what they were doing. Earth sent a ship to investigate and the Formics killed all the crew.
This was how we learned of the Formics and how the first war started.

2. In EG, we learned Formics made no effort to block radio or video communication. Since they communicated to each other via telepathy, it never occurred to them that humans would communicate via technology.

3. In EG, we learned the First Invasion occurred 30 years before the Second Invastion. Mazer Rackham served in the 2nd Invasiion, and is described as "little known, twice court-martialed" before his victory in the 2nd war. Then, he was stationed on Eros for 20 years. Then, he took a relativistic space flight that aged him 8 years, while 50 years passed on Earth. He appears to be around 60 years old at the time of EG.

If you work the timeline backwards, it is not possible for Rackham to have served in the First Invasion. He would have been 2 years old. The timeline only works if Rackham was A) not stationed on Eros for 20 years, or B) went on another relativistic space journey between the first and second wars.

The third discrepancy may be easy to explain, and indeed it may be at the end of the comics. The first two seem to be more problematic.

[ August 01, 2012, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Craig Childs ]

Posts: 157 | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
millernumber1
Member
Member # 9894

 - posted      Profile for millernumber1   Email millernumber1         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I believe the third is definitely explained. The second, I believe, is explained that the Formic ship doesn't try to block comms, it just does by its very nature.

I tweeted Aaron Johnston about the first one (sort of) - haven't gotten an answer.

Posts: 314 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Craig Childs
Member
Member # 5382

 - posted      Profile for Craig Childs   Email Craig Childs         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by millernumber1:
I believe the third is definitely explained.

OK, that's good to know. I'll probably get there soon.

quote:
[QB} The second, I believe, is explained that the Formic ship doesn't try to block comms, it just does by its very nature.
[/QB]

Not sure I can buy this explanation.

In EG, Mazer explains that people on Earth watched via delayed video feed as buggers boarded the ship sent to Eros and methodically killed the crew. He tells Ender that the buggers probably thought they were killing the ship's communications by doing this. In fact, of course, they never disrupted communications at all because it never occurred to them humans might not communicate telepathically. Mazer points this out as a major weakness of the Formics, one of the few advantages Ender can exploit.

Ender's entire understanding of the biology of the Formics, the role of the queen and drones, and the way in which faster-than-light communication occurred all stemmed from what Mazer told him about the Battle of Eros and the final battle of the Second Invasion, in which Mazer destroyed a queen. Ender's decision at the end of EG was directly influenced by these stories.

Posts: 157 | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SteveRogers
Member
Member # 7130

 - posted      Profile for SteveRogers           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The new book suggests the Formic ship's exhaust creates an unintentional disruption in communication over great distances. If the battle took place on Eros, then the Formic ship would no longer be in movement and therefore not causing the disruption.

Or videos of the battle were stored on human ships and later made available to Earth via some other means.

The Formics aren't making an intentional decision to disrupt radio or communication, so the thought still hasn't occured to them. It's assumed it's a by-product of the Formic technology which gives them an unintended tactical advantage.

Posts: 6004 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Craig Childs
Member
Member # 5382

 - posted      Profile for Craig Childs   Email Craig Childs         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Craig Childs:
quote:
Originally posted by millernumber1:
I believe the third is definitely explained.

OK, that's good to know. I'll probably get there soon.
I finished Silent Strike. This question was not addressed in the slightest.
Posts: 157 | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SteveRogers
Member
Member # 7130

 - posted      Profile for SteveRogers           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
For what it's worth, I was talking about Earth Unaware and not the comics.
Posts: 6004 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
millernumber1
Member
Member # 9894

 - posted      Profile for millernumber1   Email millernumber1         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Which problem were you talking about - Rackham's age, or his reputation? I thought you were talking about the latter.
Posts: 314 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
millernumber1
Member
Member # 9894

 - posted      Profile for millernumber1   Email millernumber1         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In terms of the first one, I was able to talk with Johnston about it, and he confirmed my suspicion that he and Card are continuing in the "fluid continuity" and "the stories must be good, and continuity will be altered to fit those good stories" approach that marked "Ender in Exile" and "Shadow of the Giant." So they are aware of these issues, but feel that the story they're telling now doesn't contradict the important moral and emotional aspects of Ender's Game, and so they're going with that, with hopes to alter future editions of Ender's Game.
Posts: 314 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2