FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Evil (Page 3)

  This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   
Author Topic: Evil
ClaudiaTherese
Member
Member # 923

 - posted      Profile for ClaudiaTherese           Edit/Delete Post 
Tammy, I promise that I'm not trying to be a dunderhead. (No, that's really me! ) But I can't get my head around a definition of "good" which is something "we all know it to be."

You've given a pretty comprehensive snippet of various defintions, examples of usages, etc. -- but please clarify for me, exactly which definition (clear, succinct, and obvious) would be the one we all agree on?

For example, one of the definitions listed above is "good (=the force which produces morally right action)." But there are a lot of things which may be "good" but have no moral relevance at all. More importantly, defining "good" as "morally right" comes out rather circular, since we don't agree on what is "morally right." AND if you define something in terms of something else which itself is at least as unclear, then you haven't made any progress.

________________________________________________________________________________________

So, what would a helpful definition of "good" that we all agree on be?

(Remember, I really am a dunderhead. )


Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Destineer
Member
Member # 821

 - posted      Profile for Destineer           Edit/Delete Post 
Mao was pretty dang evil.
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tammy
Member
Member # 4119

 - posted      Profile for Tammy   Email Tammy         Edit/Delete Post 
This one works for me.

quote:
good
noun [U]
There is an eternal struggle between good (=the force which produces morally right action) and evil.
Ambition can sometimes be a force for good (=morally right action).
The government could do a lot of good (=provide help) by sending aid to the area.
Even a small donation can do a lot of good (=provide help).
I'm punishing you for your own good (=to help you).

Does it help you CT?


Posts: 3771 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 124

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson         Edit/Delete Post 
I think what's confusing people, Tammy, is that some of the actions of God in the Old Testament would seem to directly conflict with that definition of "good."
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tammy
Member
Member # 4119

 - posted      Profile for Tammy   Email Tammy         Edit/Delete Post 
I understand completely.

I recognize the apparent contradictions.

[This message has been edited by Tammy (edited November 07, 2002).]


Posts: 3771 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ginette
Member
Member # 852

 - posted      Profile for ginette   Email ginette         Edit/Delete Post 
This is what I have come to think:
God needs us, our free will, to help him.
Mozes asked God - after being frustrated himself and breaking the stone tables - not to punish his people. Allthough it was Gods intention to punish them, he did Mozes' will.
I think He needs us to change Him, to grow (in) Him, to mature Him.
So NT God is in a way larger or better or sweeter or whatever than OT God. Heee did we do our jobs!

Question: what is the difference between 'good' and 'right'? In my language (Dutch) we use only one word.


Posts: 1247 | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
blacwolve
Member
Member # 2972

 - posted      Profile for blacwolve   Email blacwolve         Edit/Delete Post 
For me it's always been that God determines good and evil, so he naturally is good. HE can't be anything other than good, because the definition of good is God.

Also, probably no one's going to agree with on this, but I always found the NT much scarier than the old testament. I think there is a different focus in each, which might be the reason. The OT deals mainly with large groups of people, empire building, and the like, where the NT is very personal and tends to speak more to individuals.


Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dkw
Member
Member # 3264

 - posted      Profile for dkw   Email dkw         Edit/Delete Post 
Hobbes: I thought rather than quoting books that you don’t have time to read and probably don’t have access to anyway, I’d find you a few websites. Unfortunately, that left me with an ethical dilemma – do I really want to post links to hate sites on Hatrack? Answer: No I do not. So here is my compromise. I found a site that is not completely vile (or at least, maintains a somewhat academic tone). I am posting a quote, but not the link. If you (or anyone else) wants the link, to check that I am not making this up or pulling it out of context, e-mail me and I’ll send it to you.

The author of the quoted article is discussing Marcion, who was declared heretic in the second century for teaching that the God of the OT and the God of the NT were not the same being. His claim is that Marcionism was a more reasonable religion that Christianity as taught by the church fathers.

quote:

When Christian propaganda reached him, he saw, as all reasonable men must, that the ferocious, vindictive, and cruel god of the "Old Testament" was utterly incompatible with the god of mercy and love preconized by Pauline Christianity, and he accordingly decided that Yahweh was only the Demiurge, creator of the material world, but inferior to the good and supreme god who sent his Son (an avatar of himself) to save mankind from the Demiurge.
.
.
.
Why the Fathers should have chosen to burden their cult with the onerous and malodorous bundle of fictions of the "Old Testament", which blatantly contradicted the very doctrine they were peddling, is almost inexplicable, except on the assumption that it was made profitable for them. And we must not forget that, with very few exceptions, we really do not know which early Christian theologians were "converted" Jews or stooges for the Jews, like the contemptible hirelings who now misgovern Germany.

It occurred to me that my earlier post could have been read as saying that the Marcionite heresy was/is anti-Semitic and that orthodox Christianity was/is not. I didn’t mean to imply that. There has been a great deal of Christian theological interpretation, both inside and outside the institutional church that has contributed to anti-Semitism. It’s one of those things that I hope we’re growing out of.


Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hobbes
Member
Member # 433

 - posted      Profile for Hobbes   Email Hobbes         Edit/Delete Post 
<--*Applauds dkw's decision*

I never thought of that aspect, I agree with your solution though.

Thanks for the info, it's nice to know that the only sites you could find whose creator's thought this way were to vile to post at Hatrack.

Hobbes


Posts: 10602 | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Erik Slaine
Member
Member # 5583

 - posted      Profile for Erik Slaine           Edit/Delete Post 
Bump! [Evil]
Posts: 1843 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tammy
Member
Member # 4119

 - posted      Profile for Tammy   Email Tammy         Edit/Delete Post 
Martha Stewart! [No No]
Posts: 3771 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sarcasticmuppet
Member
Member # 5035

 - posted      Profile for sarcasticmuppet   Email sarcasticmuppet         Edit/Delete Post 
The founder(s) of Hamas and Al Queda for their bright idea of suicide bombing and effectively giving Islam a really bad name.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
stev_101
Member
Member # 5584

 - posted      Profile for stev_101   Email stev_101         Edit/Delete Post 
About the OT God being evil idea. You must understand that in christianity Satan is a servant of God and that God embodies everything both good and evil. With that in mind God in both the Old and New testaments is both supremely good and evil. Otherwise he is not omnipotant. Just a thought on the subject.

Steve

Posts: 10 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
James Tiberius Kirk
Member
Member # 2832

 - posted      Profile for James Tiberius Kirk           Edit/Delete Post 
Hitler.
Posts: 3617 | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Melchior
Member
Member # 5519

 - posted      Profile for Melchior   Email Melchior         Edit/Delete Post 
The president of the RIAA
Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
katharina
Member
Member # 827

 - posted      Profile for katharina   Email katharina         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
in christianity Satan is a servant of God and that God embodies everything both good and evil.
Steve, where are you getting this? I have heard this many times, but not in connection with christianity. *interested*
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ralphie
Member
Member # 1565

 - posted      Profile for Ralphie   Email Ralphie         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, not in my theology. [Smile]
Posts: 7600 | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
PSI Teleport
Member
Member # 5545

 - posted      Profile for PSI Teleport   Email PSI Teleport         Edit/Delete Post 
Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker. [Mad]
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sarcasticmuppet
Member
Member # 5035

 - posted      Profile for sarcasticmuppet   Email sarcasticmuppet         Edit/Delete Post 
Jimmy Falwell.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2