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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Gay Public High School to Open in NYC (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Gay Public High School to Open in NYC
Toretha
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quote:
I've only confronted 2 gay people that were actually confident about it.

Mae....why do I find that choice of words kinda ominous? confronted?
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Maethoriell
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..blah..

*meaning uncertainty*

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littlemissattitude
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Toretha...I was thinking the same thing.
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Caleb Varns
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quote:
Combining integrated schools with education/propaganda seems like the only way, to me. Some people are unreachable, some are already enlightened, but many are on the fence, and even as late as high school can be nudged in the right direction. These people, once convinced, would not teach their kids to hate gays, and so on.
The problem, saxon, is that while you're mostly right about a long-term solution rather than a short-term solution, you couldn't add homo-friendly curriculum to just any public school. We would have a Scopes trial all over again.
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saxon75
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You're probably right. I know I don't have all the answers. I guess I just get a little touchy when I feel that people are insinuating that I'm some kind of closet bigot or that I'm insensitive to or misunderstanding of teenage pain.
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Taygeta
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quote:
I believe that the argument that says correcting societies injustices through discriminatory practices sets up a "double-standard" is really a smoke screen. To me, it usually signals that the person likes the status quo, doesn't see anything wrong with discriminating against a particular class or group, and doesn't want to address the wrongs because they think they either aren't that big a deal, or they are well earned and justified.
I agree that setting up a school for homosexuals will shield them from harassment while they are there, which is a good intention, but it's a small bandaid for a gaping wound. My reason for disliking the double standard is not because I like the way things are; it's because I don't think it fixes the real problem. In the short run it can address symptoms of the problem. In the long run, it contributes to the problem by furthering the idea that they need to be separated and that peaceful coexistence is too difficult to achieve. It also, incidentally, gives bigots a bit more ammo: "You <expletive>, why don't you go to your <expletive> gay school where you belong?!" etc.

Double standards are not the way to deal with this issue. Stronger enforcement of anti-bullying and anti-harassment laws is a better way. Besides, such enforcement would not only help gay people but also scrawny geeks, loners, goody-two-shoes, and everyone else who gets harassed. I don't see any way to legislate or enforce that everyone simply be nice, so I leave that to personal responsibility. I leave it to the rules and law to keep the harassers and bullies in check.

I wish that I was more eloquent and better able to clearly express what I think on the subject.

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saxon75
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The problem with more enforcement and harsher punishments for bullies and harassers is that it won't stop them. Anyone who has ever been bullied will tell you that when the bully gets punished, he comes back twice as mad and wants to punish you for getting him in trouble. He will also probably feel more justified in his bigotry.
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Caleb Varns
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Right. And bullies aren't even the root of the problem anyway. They will pick on anyone different, not just homosexuals. Dealing with bullies is an entirely different issue altogether, one that needs addressing with discipline rather than separation.

The real issue is that these kids need a safe place to learn while being taught that who they are is ok, and unfortunately we just can't do that in front of heterosexual kids because their PARENTS would cry bloody murder if they were conservative enough to care. Start teaching that homosexuality is an okay lifestyle in public school? Probably not in this decade. But in the mean time we can put them somewhere where they won't be offending anyone or getting beaten, and train them together how to deal with a world that doesn't always accept them. Yet.

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Storm Saxon
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quote:

The real issue is that these kids need a safe place to learn while being taught that who they are is ok

I agree with this, but I think that protection from harrasment is only part of the issue. I agree that being able to like yourself is another part of the issue. One thing that I don't see being mentioned, though, is that of being able to love someone else. I believe that without this high school, glbt teenagers will not have a place where they can date and learn what it means to be in love and in a relationship. They will not have a place where they can love and be loved by other people (outside their family). Since they are teenagers, where else are they really going to do these things but out in the public eye?

You might say that they could hook up and express affection in private, but holy hell, how would you have felt having to do that as an expectation when you were growing up? That you have to act towards the person you love most in the world as if they were just a friend? That you couldn't even hold their hand, accept in private, without fear of ridicule and shame and hate? Bob knows it's friggin hard enough going through the whole dating process when you're a teen (unless you're a T_Smith or something [Smile] ). Throwing shame and fear into the mix doesn't really seem to me to be a viable way of helping people to grow up to be healthy individuals, and isn't that what school is supposed to do?

I agree that running away from your problems is not the answer, but this ignores a basic truth. Children, young adults, shouldn't have to face ridicule and hate as a matter of course when they are growing up. I have to confess that the fact that some of you were saying that because some other people get 'picked on' (what an innocent phrase for such a wretched experience), they should, too, is a little irritating to me. I'm glad that as the thread progressed, people killed this foolishness and started to emphasize the fact that no one should have to put up with bullying and hate.

Young people should absolutely be given every opportunity to love other people their age without fear of ridicule. I think learning how to do so is a foundation for being a healthy person. Almost nothing else comes close to the importance of learning this vital task. Currently, I don't think glbt teens really have a place to do this. I don't think it's fair to ask them to be the soldiers in a social war that they may not be prepared, or even want to, fight. That's why I support the idea of a Harvey Milk High. Once the teens graduate, they will still have to go out in the world. They will have to function in the world while they are going to the high school, but Jesus Christ, shouldn't there be one place in the world where you can be accepted while you are growing up?

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Caleb Varns
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I think the dissenters are speaking in silence. [Smile]
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Morbo
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Someone earlier on the thread said more Gay history was in order, so I present these links on the begining of the modern Gay and Lesbian rights movements. Stonewall riots. wikipedia's entry for Stonewall riots.What a weird story--SWAT teams and cops held at bay by drag-queen chorus lines.
[The Wave]
The death and mourning of Judy Garland is cited as a reason behind the riots. [Evil Laugh]
I'm sorry, but I find that hilarious. [ROFL]
15 years ago when my brother took me on a walking tour of Manhattan, the Stonewall Inn in Greenwich Village was a stop. I didn't believe him about Judy.
He also took me to Grant's Tomb.
Anybody that can answer the famous trivia question "Who is buried in Grant's Tomb?" wins a cookie.

As far as the thread topic, I think the school will be an interesting experiment.
As it's only going to have 100 students, I think it's premature to come out against it.
If it were being rolled out across the country I'd have a lot more problems with it. [Dont Know]

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DraKKenN
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I can understand why someone would go to this kind of school. It's easier to live (and learn) when you are not someone else's target...supposing that it won't happen there for any other reason.

And, of course, they will still live in the real world, so they can't get so easily disconnected from the rest of the society.

But...It's been said that we should accept, understand and respect other people's choices, points of view, religions, color of skin...

If you don't have any contact with...let's say, russians, you will never understand them, you will never accept them. They will always be strangers to you. And if some of few russians you know were harassing you

If by any chance you end up living in a place sorrounded by mostly russian people, then you won't feel comfortable, and you'll look for people like you, segregating yourself even more than the russians by themselves were segregating you already.

It would be a lost opportunity. A double-lost opportunity. You won't get to know the russians, and the russians won't see people like you as people.

So, if the russians build different schools for normal-russian-kids and "people-like-you", when you get out of schoool, you will have far less contact with russians than before.

Bad for you. As you are going to live with russians, you can't feel your whole life as a stranger, seeking people-like-you, people who don't mind how you are, because they are like you.

If the russians knew you, you could be yourself, because they won't mind.

Bad for the russians, because they will lose the opportunity to know and accept between themselves the people-like-you...and, at least, that's not wise, because there is a lot of people-like-you.

If a society pretends to heal the wounds "protecting" the wounded instead of rebuilding itself into a society with no wounds at all, that society will never be a real HUMAN society.

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m. bowles
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I need to be on the next flight off this planet.
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