That's why I've actually turned off all the criteria. There is an initial vetting/filtering process - and he's passed that. No detailing how he matches a list. Nope.
At this point, I'm going on sheer feeling.
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Okay, I have a somewhat personal question: for those who have suggested picking a good person with head and ignoring the lovey/crush thing - is that what you did? Is that what is going on? I can just never forget my grandmother saying, in response to my "I just want to be sure.", "Who do you know that was sure?" "Lots of people, Grandma." "Are they still together?" "For crying out loud, Grandma, weren't you?" (G&G have been married for fifty+ years. On the other hand, my grandpa is the one who fixes everyone my grandma offends, so I'm thinking she really lucked out.)
Is that actually it? That everyone, when they said yes and so on, are actually thinking, "Well, I guess so. It sounds good. Not really feeling anything here."???
----
You know, come to think of it, my grandmother didn't actually answer the question. *muses*
quote: He's adorable. He has learned to crochet, and is crocheting for me a blue and black beanie for Christmas. He's taking it very seriously. I can't even tell if he thinks it is remotely funny or not, so we exchanged solemn letters discussing the relative merits of my color options.
posted
Does she game? Does she read fiction? Is she smaller than a land rover? These are the only real important dating questions, imho.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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My hubby knew he would marry me as soon as I asked to borrow his saudering iron to fix my keyboard.
Actually, Kat, especially in this day and age, when divorce is so prevelant, I went into my marriage committed to doing what it took to make it work, but scared to death. I think that is normal. So yeah, of course there was the whole "Must live with him, want to wake up where he is" deal, but there was the whole "why do people get divorced? Is it going to happen to us?"
No matter what, you will open yourself up to vulnerability when you get married. You are giving yourself to a person, and there is a chance that it will be a royal screw up. The chance is always there. It can be lessened, but not removed. So it is scary, and only arrogant and blind people are SURE. Of course, those folks are usually that ones that end up with the failed marriages, because what they were absolutely SURE of wasn't really so.
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posted
Kat, I haven’t met anyone I wanted to date in years, so I’m the last person to tell you you’re being too picky. Don’t “settle” if you don’t want to. But . . . two months is too early to decide if this is a person you want to spend the rest of your life with. The only question you should be worried about now is whether he’s someone you want to spend more time with. As long as you’re honest with each other about your level of commitment, you’re not being unfair by taking your time.
Rereading the thread, it seems like one of two things is going on, and I’m not clear on which. Is it that you’ve decided you’re not interested in the guy romantically and are worried about losing him as a friend, or are you possibly interested in him romantically, but worried that the relationship is moving too fast?
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quote:Must live with him, want to wake up where he is
Right - exactly this.
This does not often happen to me. In fact, this feeling very, very, very rarely happens to me, and I'm not sure that it ever has with someone I was dating (as opposed to a friend that didn't feel the same way about me). I think I know what it might feel like, but even if I don't, I do know that I haven't felt it and ignored it. I'm not going to. But I also not going to fake it, and I'm NOT going make a calculation with my head and tell my heart to shut up.
If you were a guy, would you want that? "I'm not really feeling anything right now, but it has to be someone and it might as well be you."
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dk: yes, this is NOT a huge deal. I think it is getting bigger than it is - he really does have the same general timeline as me, which means I can tell him to slow and he's fine with that. I just... I can tell he likes me, which means that what I do affects him more than the average bear, which makes me feel like I have a responsibility to make I don't ever hurt him, which makes me feel that if I'm ever going to break his heart, I might as well do it now where it would hurt less. Maybe that's where my thinking is messed up - that someone liking me feels almost like a burden. I don't like it.
posted
I am familiar with the stereotypical Mormon relationship that has been mentioned in this thread, and I am very critical of it. I believe that most such marriages that actually do turn out to be successful are pure luck. This is one aspect of Mormon culture that needs to be changed. I tell other members of the Church (unless it hits too close too home for them and would just be offensive) that I believe we should be forbidden from marrying until after the age of twenty or twenty one, and that nobody should be allowed to marry within a year of serving a mission.
I think it is generally bad practice for a relationship to progress that fast. I believe that the best foundation for a lasting romantic relationship is a strong friendship that predates the romance. That is, the couple wants to be together first because they are good friends, have common interests and values, etc., and in process of time then also become romantically attached.
Because I believe this, I don't think it's a problem if people aren't chemically/romantically attracted to each other from the outset, or even in the early stages of the relationship. Mind you, you can't have a successful marriage unless the chemical/romantic attraction does happen first, either.
I met my wife (for all intents and purpose) in high school. We were friends. We took the same classes (because we had common interests and skills). We talked a lot and enjoyed each other's company. We even dated about three times, but there was NO notion of romance. I was not attracted to her in that way. Over the next few years, when I imagined myself with someone, it was never with her. After my mission, she welcomed me into her circle of friends to help me integrate back into society. We spent more and more time together, and within a year I realized that the feelings truly had developed. And at that point, they were mutual.
Points:
1. I took the relationship very, very slowly, and I wouldn't do anything differently.
2. Love at first sight doesn't exist (or if it does, which I doubt but which some assure me is true, it is vanishingly rare). Deep, lasting romantic feelings come gradually and, if they are to last, are based on a strong foundation of friendship.
I understand what you mean by his liking you feeling like a burden. I was that guy at one point (yeah, airport girl). She did make it clear upfront that she didn't want anything beyond friends with me and I thought I could handle it. It turned out I was wrong. It killed me everytime I thought she was with another guy. This was completely my heart, libido, whatever speaking, because upon reflection, it would have never, ever worked out. That's one anecdote for why you shouldn't let your heart have complete rule in these decisions.
This was different from you, however, in that she was never very considerate of my feelings. She really wanted to be my friend, but she wasn't willing to take into consideration any feelings I had toward her. We could be friends, but there needed to be some stipulations on it. I don't see you being like that, Kat. You're already making it clear that you are concerned with his feelings.
As far as my wife goes, was I sure? No way! But I knew I loved her and she loved me and we were both committed to making it work. I am now, though! I can't imagine my life without her now, although it's not really what I expected. I seriously think most people who think they're sure about marriage are deluding themselves.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
*hugs zan and UofU guy* Thank you, thank you. The nice thing is, I really think he's thinking the same thing - more than once a week isn't a huge, huge deal. I know a little bit of my reaction is based on experience - I have had a few too many guys propose out of what seemed to me to be nowhere and what seemed to him to be a solid five weeks of dating. I swear on my life, that is NOT happening again. It isn't fun for me. I hate it.
And this guy has NOT shown a prediliction for this kind of thing. We've even discussed it, and the nice thing is, both have a mutual horror of the idea. This is good. That's what I want, though... an old friend. This guy is a friend, but he isn't an old friend yet. That's important.
Maybe that's why what Amka is saying feels so wrong for me - you know, "make a decision like you're in love at first (two month's) sight, but the things that you like about someone straight off are not important." There's simply no way for me to do without either hypnotizing myself or flat-out lying.
I'm actually feeling better about everything, mostly because I'm remembering all the things I like about him.
posted
I agree with you Zan. My husband and I had that initial spark, but I was not at all certain I was making the right decision when I married him - in fact, I was scared that I might be making a mistake.
Also, with all due respect to Amka, don't attach so much importance to that statement you picked out of her last post:
quote:Must live with him, want to wake up where he is
I don't know that that was a deciding factor for me. In fact, it's hard, after so many years, to pinpoint exactly what was the deciding factor.
The only thing I know for sure is, I didn't make a mistake.
posted
I recall only one time in my adult life that I had the feeling you’re looking for. That I could really be happy spending the rest of my life with this person and making whatever compromises were necessary to make it work. I’d known the guy for over two years before the feeling developed. When we first met, I wasn’t attracted to him at all.
Sadly, by the time I figured out that I was and decided to ask him out, he was dating someone else. Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Do you think Jo was absolutely smitten with Freidrich at first, or were they just friends?
I think they were friends, but you know that there was a spark from the beginning - how nervous she was during their first conversation, etc. That spark is key, I've decided.
In my aeons of experience, that is Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Hobbes, you're a darling, and so sweet to say so.
I do realize how petulant and spoiled-sounding this thread title is, and also that the reason I still don't know quite what to do is because it really doesn't happen all that often, which means I haven't had enough practice dealing with it. It certainly doesn't happen commonly, and I'm not really pretty at all - which actually means that these are thinking, non-shallow guys, which somehow makes me feel worse.
quote:have common interests and values
Bingo. Both. Common values does not mean that common interests are not important. Amka, even in your story of what your husband liked about you - he was attracted to you for something that has nothing to do with your character or your dedication, but everything to do with what he thought was hot. Don't get upset with me for what I am attracted to. You might as well get mad at your husband for not being attracted to someone who makes porcelain dolls.
Why is he cute for getting what he's attracted to, but I'm misguided person for wanting the same thing?
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Fortunately, part of what I am reacting to is past dating experiences. Talking about this is blowing it up a bit - it's not that big. This guy isn't even from Utah, and he dislikes the common timetable of our mutual culture as much as I do.
Just because I say yes to this decision doesn't mean I automatically owe a yes to all the questions that come after.
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I do get twitterpated - not often, but sometimes. Basically, my head and my heart have never agreed on the same guy at the same time, and when you are working with a timeline of weeks, the timing of that dance is crucial.
posted
Ohh look, I got so embaressed in that last post, I turned yellow! Well none the less...
As for being serious... all I can say is that if I found someone I really wanted to devlope a relationship with I'd want to see her more than once a week. I don't think that means that marriage is just around the corner, but I'd want to spend time with my loved one whenever I could.
posted
I think a big part of successful marriages IS the 'twitterpation'. I mean, it may not always be there all the time, but I do know that Ron really floated my boat back then, and still does.
If you don't develop romantic feelings for guys, EVER, then maybe it just isn't in the cards. *almost quoted a Bible verse then thought better of it*
Nobody is perfect. Everyone will be selfish sometimes, including a lifemate.
I think the biggest hitch for you, really, is that the culture you live in is at odds with your personal timetable or tastes. You shouldn't HAVE to be making thses decisions at this point, kat. I wish you luck. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted September 02, 2003 01:33 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does she game? Does she read fiction? Is she smaller than a land rover? These are the only real important dating questions, imho. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 5041 | Registered: Feb 2002 | IP: Logged |
Amka Member Member # 690
posted September 02, 2003 01:51 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LOL SS
My hubby knew he would marry me as soon as I asked to borrow his saudering iron to fix my keyboard.
Actually, Kat, especially in this day and age, when divorce is so prevelant, I went into my marriage committed to doing what it took to make it work, but scared to death. I think that is normal. So yeah, of course there was the whole "Must live with him, want to wake up where he is" deal, but there was the whole "why do people get divorced? Is it going to happen to us?"
Okay, I hate to bump this, but I figure if anyone is being driven crazy by the constant Kat posts, they'll just ignore the thread. That's fine.
Now, I'm looking at this, and maybe... maybe there's the difference. Amka thinks SS and her husband are funny for their criteria, but I need to learn a lesson that I'm not going to get what I want.
Is it because I'm a girl? I asked a little while ago, when Harry Potter came out, why our hero - while he can fly, fight dragons, vanquish Voldemort, and stand up to Snape - is so clueless about the whole love thing that both Hermione and Cho, his peers, have to draw diagrams for him to understand, and he still doesn't really do anything. Cho does everything - beginning to end.
My question then was how on earth the girls knew what they were doing. Romance novels? Older sisters? Instinct? That Bible girl's magazine? Whatever it was, they were the ones who had everything figured out and simply hung around while the guys stopped tripping over their feet and finally looked up. I can't even tell you have many stories I have heard of, read about, and seen personally where the girl knew fairly early and the guy had to "figure out he loved her." I simply haven't seen it the other way around very often.
The ones that I have seen definitely weren't Mormon.
Maybe that's it? The reason the guy's are making so much sense and the girls sound like they are from another planet is because my expectations align themselves more with my brothers' and those of the heroes of all the books I have read rather than the typical girl's?
This does seem possible. In fact, part of the conversation yesterday was figuring out how long we had known each other. I couldn't remember at all, and he swore it was sometime in May. Nope - June 21. Dang. That's not that long. That's probably when I did the mental math and freaked a little bit. Anyway, I DIDN'T remember. I'm terrible with dates - I forgot my own birthday once. Someone has to remember though - I recognize it's important. I suppose someone needs to. I'm going to start taking better life notes. *wanders off to buy one of those desktop calendars*
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I have always been under the impression that twitterpation fades over time, and isn't real just hormones. Twitterpation either gets replaced by love which is "real" or the relationship ends.
Love to me is a calmer, less-bubbly constant that isn't just emotion but something deeper. Steve and I have been together for almost four years. I would say the "twitterpation" lasted maybe 4 or 5 months.
I don't think "twitterpation" = "romance". I think that romance can exist without twitterpation. And even romance is impossible to maintain at a high level over time. Ocassional romantic moments are one thing, but expecting to be romantic every moment of every day of every year for the rest of your life, I have doubts about.
I think though (in my omniscience ) that if this relationship does develop it will be the more elegant adult "romance" rather than the adolescent "twitterpation".
When it comes down to it, love is when you still want to be around him complete with his belches and farts and scratching himself, regardless of whether he ever brings you flowers.
quote: I can't even tell you have many stories I have heard of, read about, and seen personally where the girl knew fairly early and the guy had to "figure out he loved her."
I think my wife knew before I did. Actually, I know she did. After I was told she liked me, I almost didn't ask her out because she wasn't what I considered to be my type. I always looked for little petite girls while Kristine is almost my height. A good friend asked me how my luck with "my type" was working out so far. I asked her out the next day.
What's really weird is that I had always been the type to just date one girl. After several recent failures, I had decided that I was going to play the field and dated several girls at once with no intention of getting serious (no, I didn't have lines of girls waiting for me, but there were a few). Of course, as soon as I decided that, along came my wife and ruined that whole idea.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I wonder how many of those stories are written by, or more yet read by, women?
I don't think Harry had troble realizing he was in love with Cho... he was just scared to death of it and, more specifically, scared to death of screwing it up, which, in turn, caused him to screw it up royally. I think you may be spinning things a little bit here... basing this solely on your example...
Posts: 2112 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
Kat - Count me as a Mormon woman who took longer to decide than the man did. slacker and I had met at the end of July and started dating the beginning of August. We literally spent every single day together. At about the end of the second or third week, I remember talking to my mother about how weird it was (the spending every day together). The last time that had happened, I was literally going crazy by the end of the first week, but, with slacker, it was different. We really seemed to get along. We had a lot of similar tastes and interests and a lot of our values and goals in life were the same. In my mind, we quickly became really good friends. There was a spark of attraction there, but, in my experience, I had learned to value the shared interests, views, and goals more than any "spark". Anyway, slacker apparently decided fairly early on that he wanted to marry me. We dicussed it and I knew how he felt, but I just didn't know. I was honest with him about that and he said it was fine. He didn't want me to rush to judgement and said he would wait as long as it took for me to figure out what I thought and felt. It took me about a month of thinking and praying. It had both felt and seemed right to me, but I wanted more than that. I wanted to know that it was right for me. For me, it was a matter of needing divine confirmation of what I thought and felt and I got that. We decided that we wanted to get married, but decided to hold off for 3 more months before "getting engaged" and making our decisions public. Those who knew us well weren't at all surprised - they'd had a sneaking suspicion all along. But we wanted to wait before going through the pressure of "being engaged". As silly as it seems, somehow those words change everything and present a new sort of pressure all of their own - as you know. We continued to see each other almost every day through all of this. It had bit a litle bit frustrating for me - to decide so early - because I had always said that I wanted to know someone for more than a year before marrying them. I mentally scoffed at the people who got engaged after knowing each other some ridiculously short amount of time. Even though we were married about 10 months after we met, we really felt like we knew each other well. We were best friends. We dealt with his unemployment, the death of my childhood pet, my brother (who had been my best friend) leaving for his mission, and all sorts of smaller things. On the day we were married, we were both confident that we were doing the right thing and were committed to the new family we were creating. Neither one of us were at all nervous.
posted
The problem with love is that if anyone knew the answers, a lot of people would be out of a job.
Posts: 99 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
*grin* That's the other thing. You can learn by experience, or you can learn from other people's theories/stories. Problem is, there are a million theories, and getting experience hurts. I didn't even really get over the romantic idealization and start paying attention with any expectation of reality until my mid-twenties (before I was busy with other things, or still a bit trauma-broken). I deal with new events by gathering all available information. Hatrack is gold-mine of human information. *hugs everybody* Thank you for playing. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Banna, Iwas just saying that I think it's a bad idea to marry someone you don't have those sexual feelings for. I was a child of divorce. I swore I'd prolly never marry and work in an orphanage to work out my need to mother.
Ron and I dated for two years before we got engaged. For one year of that, he gave me cards that he signed "Will you marry me? -Ron"
I thought it was funny. A joke , you know. It was, but it wasn't, too.
Anyway, when the Bible advises people to cling to the wife of your youth, I think it is wise. Real love often starts with passion. For me, I was instantly attracted to Ron. He... glowed, god-like the first time I laid eyes on him (though I expected to hate him because he just couldn't be smart and interesting and look that good ) It built over time, because I was impressed with him, on many levels.
He was sure he loved me before I was sure how I felt about him, and I had a few freak-out moments. But when I married him (two years after we were engaged (total time knowing each other over 4 years)) I KNEW it was right.
Not that things have always been roses, and not that loving each other hasn't sometimes been an act of will instead of one of feeling.
But we have been married almost 11 years, and we still make love like we did way back then. I'm not saying the passion doesn't ebb and flow-- Jeez, we've had babies!-- but I AM saying that you shouldn't assume that passion will fade.
Resigning yourself to not feeling 'twiterpated' later in a relationship is just ... sad. I wouldn't leave Ron if we couldn't be together that way anymore, or anything. I expect that if we live long enough it may come to that. But I think I will always want to touch him, hold him and kiss him. He's my life.
If I could wish anything for Kat, or anyone else, it would be to have what Ron and I have. That's all I meant. I wasn't saying that lust is more important than other things; I WAS saying that it sure helps. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
*hugs Olivet* That is the sweetest thing, to wish for me what has made you so happy.
I recognize that all those who care enough to share their stories wish for others what has made them happy. I appreciate that. It's all part of the gathering of stories. It also makes me very happy for you.
People are so different. It simply must be that the reason there are a million theories of love is that there are a million theories that somehow work - at least for somebody. The same theories probably don't work for everybody - I have enough faith in human science to know that if there was just one answer, we would have figured it out by now.
I do appreciate the stories. I appreciate my own experiences, too - as much as they sometimes have sucked (for me, and for others). I have a few things I greatly wish I could do over, but no real major regrets. The closest I have is the guy who ended up marrying my best friend, but really, I did my best. I was only 20, and my mom died three weeks before. We're lucky no one lost an eye.
It's funny... of all the married couples I have seen, the only one that I knew well and fairly ached with envy over was the Latin professors - married for fifteen years, together for twenty, both working separately and as a team on what they absolutely loved, and they complemented each other perfectly. I realize I got to see the result of twenty years of learning to fit each other, but dang... that was cool.
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posted
Okay, I'm going to jump in here on the off-chance that something I have to say is helpful.
I want to speak up about the shared interests thing. I agree with you Kat, in that I want all my friends to be fairly well-read, be interested in things similar to what I'm interested in, be funny, engaging, and somewhat adventurous.
If you line up the things I like to do beside the things he likes to do - you'll find precious few things on both lists.
Wes doesn't read fiction. Why? It's not true or real. He does no "recreational" reading at all. When he's reading he's either studying building codes, EMT manuals, or scripture.
Not sharing the same traits that you look for in friends isn't necessarily a bad thing. After all, if you're considering marriage (and I know you aren't pursuing it at this point) then you aren't looking for friends, but rather a lifetime partner. Yes, friendship is part of that, but there is so much more. And you can be friends who don't share all your interests, trust me. Sometimes it's good to know someone who brings something different to the table.
Wes is an outdoors type guy, loves camping,hiking, hunting, fishing, rock climbing. Me, I've always contended that I hate to sweat and would rather sit in my air conditioned home that trek through the woods.
We'd been married for 10 years before I decided to give hiking a real try. And I found out that I loved it. Now we are planning our first overnight camping trip, and studying trail maps with plans to hit a lot of the major waterfall trails in our area of Alabama.
It's okay to compromise on your expectations regarding shared interests. In fact, it may be good you don't share everything. By being married to me, Wes has learned a bunch of things about books, the publishing industry, and Tolkien. Being married to him has made me able to install a faucet (with help), read a topographical map, and appreciate just how much sacrifice goes into running your own business.
What would we have missed out on if we married people whose background and interests were identical to our own?
Some things you don't compromise on - faith. Whether or not to have children and how many. Who is in charge of the television remote.
Other things, you don't just compromise on the differences, you embrace them.
My $.03 (inflation, you know)
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I think you've misread a lot of what I've said. I certainly didn't say
quote: "make a decision like you're in love at first (two month's) sight, but the things that you like about someone straight off are not important."
<insert poor little altruistic Amka comment here> And I've been hooked up to tubes bleeding out for a good cause and unable to defend myself. </insert>
I didn't say that the things you like about a person straight off are not important. I said to not be _too_ picky, and I said that the beginning of a relationship, or the choosing of a person doesn't necessarily correspond with what you think will happen. For instance, I'm attracted to intellegent men and of course I like it when we share the same taste in books. So I met a guy like that, fell for him, and three months later wondered what drug I must have been on to stay with him for that long.
I said, basically, nothing is sure. As a result, being scared is normal. But don't let fear rule you.
You also forgot to see this that I said: "If you aren't attracted to him... ...then that isn't a switch you can flip."
I've never said to pretend. I would never say that. In fact, I gave the opposite advice. If the chemistry is there for him, and not for you, then make your feelings clear. And I think attraction is an important thing. I would, however, say to examine your feelings and see from whence they come. Give yourself a bit of time before you run away or commit, just like others have said.
I would stand by what I said, that there are some characteristics that one might want that won't be in the mate they choose. So why would someone choose a person that doesn't meet their list? Well, because they found other characteristics that were most desirable. For instance, on my husband's list was "keeps house clean". I told him from the beginning that I feared I would be a poor housekeeper. There were no indications that this was a talent of mine. He chose me anyway.
Vladimir didn't go into the relationship thinking that he must have a geek wife. This wasn't in his filter at all, because he didn't think that geeks existed in the female gender. He just got lucky.
posted
The thing that I wish Kat didn't have to deal with is the pressure. I mean, it took me four years to decide to take the plunge. I can only say that Ron really is a saint, to have put up with me that long, waiting.
The pressure is counter-productive, I think. If I had felt pressure to marry from my family, or my culture, I might have balked even more. Not that there wasn't some pressure one way or another, but nothing like what it must be for a young Mormon.
Thing is, I'm glad I waited until I felt it was right. Also, I'm happier now than I was then, so it is definitely true that marriage isn't the end, just the beginning. However, it's important to begin with someone you feel is right. As horrible as this sounds coming from someone like me, I really felt the assurance of a higher power about my choice of mate. And heck, if I can get that, being mostly heathen, then you shouldn't settle for less, either. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote: Other things, you don't just compromise on the differences, you embrace them.
You just hit a nail on the head. That is so true. It is like I'm more of a person now, because I've been deeply and intimately connected to a person who is different from me in many ways. I actually have more capacity to love other people, by having loved him.
Posts: 3495 | Registered: Feb 2000
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I think we are talking at cross-purposes then - because taking my time is exactly what I want to do. My frustration is with guys/circumstances that don't want to let me.
Hmm... maybe I'm not taking kindly to being told what to do. Amka, I'm not 16. I do like venting to Hatrack, because people can ignore it if they want and it saves my RL friends some wear and tear, but I didn't ask for advice. I love sharing of experiences (if for no other reason, I love human stories), but I don't enjoy - in any of these kinds of threads, actually - being told what to do. Maybe part of the reason I missed the meaning of some of your posts was the imperative voice. It's okay. I'd love to hear about your experiences and your take all on its own.
I'm not shy. When I want advice, I will (and do) DEFINITELY ask for it. There are many Hatrackers (you, CT, and the lovely Mrs. Card among them) who gotten requests for their opinions on things. Here, I'm just venting. I mean, there are hardly enough details to even really form an opinion about my situation, much less be able to offer a diagnosis.
Olivet:
*hug* Thank you. I believe that - I talked with my friend who is getting married next month, and she's had even more roller coasters of the heart than I have. She isn't marrying someone who has everything on her list, but he fits her, and he worships her, and he's loved her for ten years, and she feels good and comfortable with it, all the way down to her toes. The Lord knows that there is simply no way in heaven or hell for me to make myself fit the foreign pattern that is often thrust upon me, and instead of me giving up or else marrying outside the church, I believe there will be a third way. He'll take care of me.
posted
That is why I think it is good that we have had a woman who was single and never married in the churchwide Relief Society presidency (Mormon woman's organization.)
I hope it doesn't sound like I've been pressuring Kat. The "don't be too picky" part probably has, but it isn't because I think she needs to get married soon. I think it is more like saying, "Don't tell God what you want, let God show you what is good for you."
In its time, however it comes.
Posts: 3495 | Registered: Feb 2000
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When I vent, I usually am seeking advice, and I don't think I'm ever too old. Sorry if I misinterpreted.
Posts: 3495 | Registered: Feb 2000
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I mentioned this in chat with another hatracker several months a go, but when you love someone, there is a definite bleeding of personalities. You try things for that other person that you wouldn't normally do because you love them. You open each other's eyes to things you hadn't seen before. Sometimes it's a genuine case of transferance and you genuinely learn to like new things. Sometimes you like doing them just because you're with that person because it's time with the one you love. Doing the activity with other people isn't the same.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't necessarily agree that there are any real rules of 'you have to agree with this' that other people can tell you. Let your own personal rules that you have for yourself be your guide when dating someone. For instance, I definitely don't think faith is insurmountable. So you go to church on a different day of the week and read from A instead of B for inspiration. Does God change? No. Does God work through the person any differently? No.
So, I think different things are key for different people, but fundamentally, it seems to me, a couple really only has to do three things: see each other for who they really are, which means *looking*, love each other for who they are, and be able to work through arguments to get through the differences. All the rest is window dressing.
The fundamental problem that you're making, if I may be so bold, Kat, is that you are living both in the past (this hasn't worked before/this has always happened before) or too much in the future (can I live the rest of my life with him? Can I marry him?). You might say that you aren't looking for marriage, but if that is so, why are you marking your calendar while dating this guy? Just take things as they come and listen to your heart. If *you* like spending time with this guy and want more, go for it. If not, just be friends. I think you're really confusing yourself by asking yourself what you should be feeling. Regardless of what you should be feeling, you are you and you're going to feel the way you feel regardless. Listen to yourself and live day to day and all the rest will follow.
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Amka, I know you weren't meaning to. Truth is, I'm just not that subtle. If I vent, I'm venting. I seek advice when I want it. Jokes are always appropriate. I simply love stories.
And the nice thing about Hatrack is that I can flip out here instead of while I'm actually talking to him. That's good! Maybe I'm going to have to rethink the "introduce him to Hatrack" plan.
Thank you, Stormy. That's part of the flipping out, I think - conflagrating all tenses and timelines. My current plan is to make one decision at a time. That's all. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I think part of the problem is your family is in the back of your head. Just remember, *you're* the cool one. What the heck do they know? Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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>> ...and instead of me giving up or else marrying outside the church, I believe there will be a third way. <<
Curses!
Well then, when my study of religious brings me back full circle to Christianity again, I suppose I'll have to look at this Mormonism thing...
Again, SS has said everything I would have wanted to say and more. So I have nothing of real value to contribute. Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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I think the most important thing you could do (besides contemplate all this great advice you've already gotten) is to take the pressure off of yourself where it matters: Between you and this guy. If he's Mormon, 29, and seeing you once a week (and maybe not seeing anyone else) I can imagine why you're feeling pressured. As long as he knows how you're feeling and is ok being friends, you don't HAVE to feel pressure from him. yeah. Idealistic, I know.
I myself have been in the position where I say "Sure I'm fine with being just friends!" on the outside and secretly I'm saying "I'll just bide my time 'til he 'comes around.'" Yeah. I was still putting pressure on that person, even though I was in denial. It's a mess. People are just different. Some are immediately willing to hand you their heart on a platter, complete with a sharpened cleaver on the side. Some people just aren't. Neither is right or wrong, but when two the different types get together, it's hard to figure things out.
So. I will just *hug kat*, say good luck, and bow out of this thread. (This has been a great thread btw. I've really enjoyed reading everyone's posts and advice.)
Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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I used to have a problem. I'm not saying it's your problem, kat, or that it even has much to do with this thread, but I'm at work and I feel like rambling on about my life.
I used to overthink things. Specifically relationships. Within days of meeting a guy who might become more than a friend, my mind went into overdrive. Constantly analyzing the situation, brooding over it, worrying about hurting his feelings or getting my feelings hurt. After a few dates, I was into full-blown speculation over whether or not "we" could ever work out.
The result? It was like Seinfeld. I never actually got to know the guy before I found some "important" flaw and dumped him.
So, after a particularly bad dumping, I swore off dating for a while. Of course, this was at the height of my self-confident stage, so I had three guys asking me out within a week. I told all three I'd just gotten over a bad breakup, and just wanted to be friends. Two of them didn't take it well, and disappeared. The third one said okay and proceeded to treat me like a friend. I didn't think about relationships at all. I didn't think of him as a possible boyfriend/husband/life insurance benefactor, I just hung out with him every once in a while. Of course, to everyone around us, it was obvious we were pretty into each other, but I was totally oblivious. No overthinking, no worrying, I was just enjoying his company.
Of course, after a few months, I woke up one day and realized I was madly in love with the guy, and we've been together ever since, (cue angelic music) But I am so greatful that I was able to just push all those nagging little questions away and simply enjoy his company as I got to know him, rather then putting him under the microscope the day after I met him. Who could possibly stand up to that?
Of course, I still overthink everything else in my life, and I know I shouldn't... But it's wonderful, every once and a while, and especially in relationships, to just let go and enjoy each other without feeling pressured to constantly reevaluate the other person.
Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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Ayelar, you only said it once, didn't you? Well, twice with that second post. And it doesn't look like you edited them out. . .
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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