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Help? I'm working on paper about "The Hobbit" analyzing good and evil, but I can't find any critics on the subject. There are plenty of them on LOTR's, but not The Hobbit. I have 3, including my book right now, but I'm worried it won't be enought to write the paper. I was wondering if any one, for some strange reason, happened to have any critics that they could send me via e-mail? or if anybody could direct me to a source they know about on the net?
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Yeah, I pretty much didn't enjoy the book (to be nice), but I picked it cuz I was easier than anything she suggested. I definatly regret that decision now.
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I love the Hobbit. I've read it twice. If you have any questions, email me at: nickmayo@comcast.netPosts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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I read The Hobbit when I was ten amd I still believe that in some respects in better than LOTR. Unfortunately, I can't remember much of the book.
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I read The Hobbit when I was six. I loved it then, and I still love it now. (but the Lord of the Rings is better! )
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Yeah! Which seven do you know? I studied two of them. There are 14 altogether, I believe, but some we only have a few words from. That's awesome!
[ October 14, 2003, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
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You studied fake languages? I really like LOTR and consider myself a true fan, but you people... Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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You could try The Annotated Hobbit, which fleshes out some of the story of Tolkien's life in relation to the story. There's a bit of lit crit in there, too.
Best, though, would be to think through your ideas about the topic. Are you required to reference critics? When is it due?
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Have you looked through the many volumes of encyclopedias of literary criticism that are probably collecting dust at your local library?
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Jeni, you and me together. C'mon. We can do it for Glynn ... you know you're thinking about it, too ... Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:UC Santa Cruz offered courses in Klingon, if you can believe that.
Of course I can believe it. Having known several people who attended school at Santa Cruz, I can confirm that not only the campus, but pretty much the whole area, is still stuck firmly in the sixties. I'm not saying this as a criticism, you understand. That's just how it is.
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Maybe this is hijacking the thread, but do you think they will film The Hobbit now using the same actor for Bilbo? They way he doesn't age in the books would make it theoretically possible. The only thing I know about The Hobbit is what was mentioned in FOTR special features of the original version DVD. Oh, and I saw the cartoon about 25 years ago.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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CT, if you want to yell at me for not doing my own homework, I feel that that would not be appropiate, but you may if you wish. I have already seached through the numerous volumes at both my school library and the largest public library in town(where everyone goes for research). I have searched the web and e-mailed professors who teach classes on Tolkien and his works(they told me they were too busy to send me any papers they had written).
I've been researching for over a week and it's due next Wednesday. And while it will include a lot (at least for my paper) I am required to cite other peoples ideas and critics.
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That cartoon makes me shudder. Did anyone see the LOTR cartoon. That one mad me shudder even more.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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"You studied fake languages? I really like LOTR and consider myself a true fan, but you people... "
*gasp*
Quenya is NOT a fake language! Tolkein was a brilliant linguist, and Quenya was created before he even started LotR. Some of the smaller LotR languages are based on quenya or other languages and not many words were created.
Posts: 4174 | Registered: Sep 2003
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Was it ever spoken by people for the purposes of communication? Or is it like Latin today? Its fake. You're all freaks. I'm sure you have pointy ears. I'm laughing at you now. Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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And yes, it is a "real" language. It doesn't matter if it was ever spoken for communication purposes (LotR fans not included). It's still real. I don't know how to explain it any better, and I don't feel like trying 'cuz I have a headache.
So I'm going to laugh back at at you. Posts: 4174 | Registered: Sep 2003
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Do you *need* to have critics to write the paper? I don't know where you are in your scholastic endevours but I rarely used critics when writing a paper on a book. Instead I'd just construct an essay/paper of my own thoughts and use the book to back them up. If you are having such a hard time finding critics/information this might be a wise idea.
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quote:CT, if you want to yell at me for not doing my own homework, I feel that that would not be appropiate, but you may if you wish.
No, IA, instead I should apologize for being so cynical. I used to teach philosophy, and the number of my student's papers I could track down through judicious use of google was alarming. I ended up devising very specific questions and asking for rough drafts in advance, so that the students could rework them in response to specific feedback. It was more work for me, but I found that the quality of the students' thinking improved more, which was what I was really concerned about.
But you are not my student, and I certainly shouldn't make light of your studiousness, even in passing jest. Actually, you will recall that I made some specific suggestions before "poking" Jeni in the ribs. That was meant more as a tease of her, and I didn't realize how it could (easily) be hurtful to you. I'm sorry.
I asked about the deadline, because you could certainly put an outline of your paper points up here and have us respond to them (maybe toss out some other perspectives, or link to text sources you've overlooked). If your teacher approved the topic and secondary critics are hard to come by, then the teacher would have to accept original work from you.
So what's the thesis? (*interested)
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Eruvas right, Quenya was created a long time ago. And no language is fake, because once it exists it is no longer fake. As tolkien would say, "Naur an Adraith Ammen"
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Sarahdipidy, I'm in high school. So, I have to have critics and such. But from the way my paper has been going it seems that this paper will wind up being mostly my own ideas.
CT, I don't have a written ou thesis yet, persay. But the general idea is an analysis on good and evil. I'm sorry that I was so quick to anger/be hurt. This paper has frustrated me to no end and I'm a little on edge about it.
My outline is very rough, probably only makes sense to me, and is open to suggestions... I. what is good? A. Beorn B. Dwarves C. Gandalf D. Bilbo II. What is evil? A. Spiders B. Goblins C. WArgs D. Smaug II. Shades of Gray A. Bilbo the Burgler B. Dwarves love for gold
I'm sorry again, and tanks for any and all the help you have been giving.
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Ahh well I've gotten away with writing and backing my own interpretation all the way through grad school and college. (I'm a grad student now.) However, this is probably a matter of teacher preference. Or maybe I just went to substandard high school/colleges. Posts: 872 | Registered: Mar 2002
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IA, for goodness sake, when I reread my comment I realized just how snippy it sounded. No worries, and no need to be uncomfortable about such a gentle reminder as you gave.
This is your paper, and you should certainly do it as you see best. If you did want another perspective, though, I'd think about narrowing the focus and digging deeper. In teaching college students, I found there to be a tendency to cover a lot of ground, but necessarily rather shallowly -- on the other hand, the further one goes in education, the less broad the topics become. You just dig very, very deep.
What would you think about looking at good and evil in the Hobbit this way: is what determines good and evil (for Tolkien) a function of the choices one makes, or a function of who we are born to be? Or both?
On the one hand, there seems to be a clear division between good and bad choices in the Hobbit -- it is good to be loyal and clever, for example. On the other hand, there are creatures which seems to be "born evil," such as Trolls. They don't seem to be able to redeem themselves by choice. And Gandalf realizes from the beginning that "there is more to the hobbit" than first meets the eye.
So, is Bilbo good because of the choices he makes, or because of the way he was born? Is this consistent for creatures throughout the story? (Of course, this gets more complicated in LOTR, but you can keep a focus on The Hobbit.)
And, are there things (objects) which are evil? How does this relate to choice, since objects are not able to make choices? Or are they?
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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Sorry, for taking to long to respond, I've been out of town getting into college. Your idea seems like it would be an interesting paper, to read. But a hard paper, for me at least, to write. I know it sounds like I am being lazy, but the paper is due in 3 days, and I've almost gotten to the point where I can write on what I've got. But if I had more time, I would love to try and write a paper on you idea.
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Do you go to a private high school? My high school got the best scores in the state, and was a public school. (It had a magnet program, but this was ~30 students per year (~120 total) out of > 2000 total.) Granted, Kentucky is probably not the best state as far as public schools go, but we have been studied/emulated as far as our educational programs go (reference KERA). I went to a private (Christian, but frankly acadmecailly (sp; drunk) superior, {at least, especially} in subjects other than biology}) school before high school, so I have at least some small perspective on this matter.
Assuming you attend public school, I assert the following: Christian schools (in general) are superior to Catholic/public (not that I personally believe Catholics are not Christian) in most/all subjects, and Catholic schools are superior to public schools in same (not that I am sober enough to offer a distinction, nor drunk enough to perform (in most intents the same) an equivalent action.) Nonetheless, as particular teachers are so variable, and alternatively wonderful or horrible, one should be neutral at first, and after making an honest judgment (if honestly fairly neutral) judge based upon the particular student, I doubt the school (sp; drunk) one attends makes much difference. Ah well, I am fairly/decently drunk, and if anyone asserts that my opinions would be significantly different (in vino veritas then I will assert (or possibly deny, but I doubt such) that I am addicted and/or use such drugs that I remain a Christian, and if I honestly disagree (which is not so much certain as many agree, so much as many others believe) I will cease my use... I have (temporarily) ceased use (of certain/various/semi-arbitrary drugs) for various reasons, for various drugs, and if I pray and receive revelation (and in good faith am convicted that such use is wrong) and will cease use should I be certain of the wrongness of any drug. See DXM, which is basically legal, yet I have sworn off all use (and consider any subsequent use a moral failure) for the rest of my life.
Perhaps this reply rambles overmuch. I cannot tell myself; the only truth I know is <i>in vino veritas</i>. I do urge all users of entheogens to keep this in mind- I am a Christian, but I do not believe that enjoyment/exploration of the mind is wrong; if not neutral, it is good as (I believe) it opens the mind to the truth of the Christian God. Praise Adonai! As far as entheogens themselves/solely, I neither encourage nor discourage their use, but I do (as a (fairly fundamental) Christian) believe that their correct, righteous, and even holy use can be perverted. The only thing/act/attitude I encourage is belief in truth... yet I do not condemn _any_ use of entheogens. I would love to speak/converse with all seekers, but even more than that, all of those convinces (or reasonably confident) that Christianity/God hates them. True, correct Christianity (although still exclusively true (sorry, I wish I did not believe this but I do and furthermore believe this truth to be exclusive)) hates no one, despite their sin. And believe me, I have sinned at least as much as any non-Christian, and very likely more.
I doubt that my witness is effective... but if you do feel any effect, from it or any {thing/one} else, please IM me at the ID OberynMartell. I believe in Christianity, and am pretty fundamental, but I am still very liberal and honestly believe that God made entheogens (all natural, and more than a few synthetic and/or semi-synthetic) for a reason. Obviously, entheogens do not prove His existence (I personally came to my belief before I ever experienced any entheogen), but they do (IHMO, no offense intendesd) provide (at least) circumstancial evidence.
Hmmm... well, I have used brackets rather than greater than/less than signs, yet one iteration of in vino veritas is italicized, and one (the second) is not. I am, of course, too drunk to be able to tell why this is so, but if anyone posts a reason that a decently intelligent person can understand, I will fix it. Yeah... that's about all. Go in peace, friends.
I would also suggest that you look at good and evil in an environmental context as well. What is the Shire? What is Tolkien saying about life and goodness in his depiction of the Shire? Compare this to Mirkwood or the goblin caves. Also, what about the elves and men? How ambiguous is their position?
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You might be able to contact the people that run this to get help on information (anyone for a Wisconsin get-together next time around?) Satyagraha
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IA, however you wish to do it, of course -- it's your paper. Would you post it hear for us (or at least a part of it), though? It sounds amazing!
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Ok, I personally am not all that proud of it, I think I've done much better. But my dad thought it was ok, so I'm handing it in tomorrow. If you find any major errors before 7 am tomorrow, I'll love you forever.
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Did you read it or did someone read it to you? I needed help sounding out vowels at age 6.
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Did anyone see the LOTR cartoon. That one mad me shudder even more.
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