posted
Scythrop, thanks for the offer, but there's a reason I use fiazko for everything. Also, you said you never had a doubt that I was female. Any reason why? Or simply "for some reason"?
Posts: 1090 | Registered: Oct 2003
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A lot of people thought I was a guy for a while. What Ever.
There are three widely debated features of "female" speech in English that I am aware of. The trouble is, it is really hard to do research since you generally can't record people without their consent, and if they know you are recording them this tends to invalidate the data. But Jon Boy may know more about this than me at this point.
1) Tag questions. This is turning a statement around so it is a query. "You didn't forget to take the garbage out, did you?" The tag is the little clause at the end "Did you".
2) Interruptions. It would be interesting to see if women post a reply before reading the whole thread more than men. Men having a conversation expect to be heard out before the other person begins talking. But women conversing with each other tend to overlay and interact more.
3) "Let's", "we" instead of an imperative. So instead of "Do you homework", a woman might say "Did we do our homework?" Other features that are debateable: "I think" "might" "tend to" and any other method of cushioning a possible rebuttal.
Fiazko: O is the male marker for Italian at least, and I think Spanish also. Ditto "Taberah", which sounds Arabic to me, and feminine at that. In Arabic, a lot of Male words end in a consonant, with a female variant having an added a. Though "t" is also a female ending, which is funny because at least one fantasy series I read tried to use it for a male ending. The author thought it sounded "harsh" and therefore masculine.
[ December 09, 2003, 01:30 AM: Message edited by: Trisha the Severe Hottie ]
Posts: 666 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Can't really say. Just a general sense of things. I find it interesting, though - I picked Scythrop because I thought it was deliberately obscure enough to be ambiguous, but pretty much everyone (correctly) assumes I'm male. And while there's some like yours and Sarcy's who I knew right off, there's others that I (still) regularly stuff up. (I had the classic "you mean Ralphie's a girl?" conversation with Imogen, after lurking for a solid month.)
And I found it really hard *not* to sound masculine - whatever that means - when posting earlier.
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Dang, I do all three of those -- although I tend not to do #2 online, and am working on not doing it offline.
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Scythrop, all those "guy" things are things I might do. Try to quantify things and also institute a competition with a point system. <laughs> But then I am a tomboy. I feel a little bit like I'm play acting whenever I do sisterhood things like baby showers and talking about clothes or house decorating or hair care. I do like clothes and houses and hair. I'm girly to that extent. But it seems just a little bit like a game and not something that truly matters like boolean algebra or something <laughs>.
[ December 09, 2003, 01:31 AM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
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Ok, here's a question for allyou linguists. Is "fiazko" an actual word in any language? Namely, one that would imply masculinity?
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Mrs. M, I think I understand your logic, but how often do guys realize the havoc the wreak and then advertise that knowledge?
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Good point. I would have probably assumed the same thing about someone whose screenname was Oblivious.
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Hmmm. I'm more confused than ever. I'm tempted to create a decidedly male or female screen name and see how long it takes for people to figure out that I'm a girl. Or that I'm fiazko...
Posts: 1090 | Registered: Oct 2003
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No, Scythrop, I'm not a DJ, nor am I Nordic. Funny thing about my "ethnicity" but that's for another thread. Anyway, did you go to the second Google page? Nice link to Hatrack.
Posts: 1090 | Registered: Oct 2003
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okay, so here we go.. Luthe, you're a guy? No offense, but I've been labouring under a misaprehension, (based purely on your SN, for some reason.)
posted
When I googled, I got two Hatrack links on the bottom of the first page. I think that says something about the rarity of "fiazko" as a word or SN.
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Edit: I think it is the 'e' at the end that confuses people. luthe is a male character from the [u]Hero and the Crown[/u] and [u] The Blue Sword[/u] by Robin McKinley.
posted
Ah, thanks, Scythrop. fiazko is part of my personality. My friends think I should change my plate to something a little more optimistic, but where's the fun in that?
pooka, I don't know what to tell you. I've got a junk mail filter set up, but since I still get porn, I can't imagine why your message didn't come through.
Posts: 1090 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I wouldn't change fiazko as a SN - I've always liked it and have always enjoyed your posts, so it's become a part of your identity (in my mind at least) Hatrack just wouldn't be the same without it.
edit to add - previous post deleted in a fit of Newbie-itis
posted
I don't know if it's that we think faster, so much as we think more, so we just arrive at a conclusion faster.
Posts: 1090 | Registered: Oct 2003
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It took me a while to figure out Pat was a guy. I remember it coming out that Primal Curve is a guy, even though it always makes me think of "Curves for Women". But then, I can never remember which is PC and which is Ethics Gradient, which I would assume is a guy. Despite EG being the initials of the protagonist of The Bell Jar .
Also, I recently made the error of thinking msquared was a girl. Anybody else? Anyway, Fiazko, you'll always be a Metrasexual in my book Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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pooka, it's nice to cause warm spots in other people's hearts. And I got a good laugh about msquared being a girl, but only because I've met him.
Posts: 1090 | Registered: Oct 2003
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This is actually one of my favorite topics, and one that only rarely comes up. Let me share what I've discovered.
First off, names that end with vowels or a vowel with a soft consonant are much more likely to be perceived as female. Hard consonants are found most often in male names, though the first consonant is not an indication. (Teresa, Katherine, etc.) A basic rule of thumb, if the name can easily be spoken in a "sing-song" kind of way, it's likely to be perceived as female. Keep in mind that in a non-spoken environment, only the most obvious pronunciation is likely to be used.
As far as writing style goes: Far fewer indications can be taken from forums than from live written conversation. Forums allow editing and ample time to compose thoughts into specific arrangements. Thus a lot more analysis is required as the individual is much less likely to use a conversational tone. The easiest (and most instinctive) way is to judge based on the classic prejudices of the sexes. Men are analytical, women are intuitive. Whichever style best fits the writing will generally influence gender perception. However, many people don't fit the category as neatly as some would like. When you start slicing the population up into sub-groups, such as "People who are fanatical enough about OSC's writing to hang out online with each other", you're talking about people with certain specific qualities. His books are undeniably remarkable, but they simply do not appeal to everyone. I would venture a guess that the people who enjoy his writing a great deal probably exhibit more "male style" of writing than one would find across a more broad sampling of society. (That's just a guess on my part.)
In conversational situations it's far easier to determine gender, as women tend to almost compulsively use endearing remarks. "Hon", "Sweetie", and so on are generally dead give-aways of a female speaker. However, if they are overdone, it's most likely a gender-bender male. The use of these terms isn't just for its own sake though, it's part of a bigger drive. Women tend to simply be "friendlier" in their speech. Where men will use derisive terms towards their friends - in good fun - women do not. Thus they are far more complimentary, "social"... their speech is aimed more at creating "warm feelings".
Men can be complimentary, but there is almost invariably some "butching up" done in the statement. "Dude, you kick ass!" A compliment, but shrouded with the almost invariably male word "dude", and violent imagry. Part of the reason that men like to go drinking (in my opinion) is that it gives them an excuse to speak more openly without fear of embarassment. Imagine a guy telling his best friend "I love you, man" while sober. It doesn't work as well as if he's consumed enough beer to make Anheiser Busch's stock fluctuate.
But I'll agree that determining gender on a forum is significantly more difficult. If not being misinterpreted is important the first and most important step is the choice of name. Picking an almost melodic name that ends in a vowel or particularly soft consonant will make a lot of difference.
A lot of perception is first impression. Like a few people have said, it's difficult to alter the perception of gender even when faced with the facts. The human mind is a lot like pencil and paper, and the eraser is definitely not top-quality. You can erase the "Gender" field in your filing system, but the shadow of the word never quite vanishes no matter how many times you reinforce the marking of the new sex. It's an organic system after all, not magnetic digital storage.
Posts: 55 | Registered: Nov 2003
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I have wondered if I had used the screen name "Farmer" instead of "Farmgirl", if everyone would have assumed I was a male (since the majority of farmers are). But I didn't think that deeply into the CREATION of my screen name, or else it wouldn't even be what it is...
I always used to think that females were more "wordy" than guys -- until I came to this list. Here, it is definately the guys who make mega-long posts and arguments. Nice to see guys who know how to communicate.
posted
porce, nononnonono, you can't change your screen name!
I'm never changing mine. Well, I did for a little while that one time, but only because I wanted to leave Hatrack but couldn't quite. The new screen name worked quite well.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:There are three widely debated features of "female" speech in English that I am aware of. The trouble is, it is really hard to do research since you generally can't record people without their consent, and if they know you are recording them this tends to invalidate the data. But Jon Boy may know more about this than me at this point.
Unfortunately, I don't. I'm studying English language, not linguistics, and even though most of my courses are linguistics-oriented, I haven't studied sociolinguistics or anything like that.
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I on the other hand am male. Oh, and Satan this passive waiting around for souls just to arrive doesn't cut, we need to be out there activly gathering souls.
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fiazko is a GIRL? Wow, I always thought she was a guy...
Ooh...I've been used as an example of girliness! *glows with pride* I always thought I was a tomboy, though. Posts: 4174 | Registered: Sep 2003
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I just read Spektyr's analysis of gender styles, and am mildly amused at the way not one of his spoken or written communication stereotypes applies to me or anyone else I can think of. Really. Of course, I realize that this is only anecdotal evidence against his theories, so I won't go so far as to say that they're unresearched, pretentious crap, but I would suggest a critical reappraisal. Posts: 2762 | Registered: Sep 1999
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I don't think anyone here knows me well enough to have formed an opinion, but on Pweb it is almost a rite of passage for new members to assume I'm male and be corrected. This honestly confuses me. But it is also amusing.
Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002
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You know, it wasn't until Ralphie dedicated a whole thread to how much she wanted to hug me, almost four years ago, that her girlness finally sunk in. *embarrassed laugh*
And yes, Eruve is OBVIOUSLY a girl, but I thought fiazko was male, too. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I'm not sure how to take all these people thinking I was a guy. I mean, Ralphie? That makes sense. If I were remotely feminist, I would be offended that a name like fiazko would automatically imply masculinity. But I'm not remotely feminist. I struggle enough with feminity. Which I why I have to say Thank you, Hatrack. Thank you for bringing my masculine tendencies to my attention. Thank you for giving me some of the best laughs (at my own expense) that I've had in a while. And looking to the future, I can't wait until this thread drops off the list completely so that anyone who missed this thread or the one on the other side can make the same mistake, and I can laugh about it all over again.
*insert a "blow kisses at admirers" graemlin*
Posts: 1090 | Registered: Oct 2003
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i get confused over people's genders ALL the time. I actually leave the hatrack photo album open the whole time im posting and go check if i dont know who it is. Which is why i must insist that all you newbies get on the ball and get photos in there. Im tired of saying 'thanks bro' to hot girls. It makes me feel like an ass
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I think that says something about the rarity of "fiazko" as a word or SN.
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