posted
GOP students launch Web site for complaints about liberal professors Republican students at the University of Colorado launched a Web site to gather complaints about left-leaning faculty members, saying they want to document discrimination against conservative students and indoctrination to the liberal viewpoint. "We want concrete examples of bias in our arsenal when we go to the administration, the regents and the Legislature," said Brad Jones, 20, chairman of the College Republicans, who launched the Web site last week.
Frankly I'd rather see a site that documents any propaganda from teachers, regardless of the actual viewpoints, but hey.
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posted
I can't find anyone that's reported any bias on the consertative students' website. Can someone provide a link of where they're documenting this stuff?
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posted
That site is taking complaints but not (at least not yet) posting them, I don't think. But there is a link to a paper that lists some of the complaints made previously.
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posted
The first example is definitely not acceptable.
The second example is not something that I would deem to be unacceptable bias, and in fact is an example of the kind of bs this kind of thing will bring. If no professor is able to present views which offend students for fear of being reported, then the end result will be pablum.
A teacher doesn't have to have views with gibe with every student's, nor do they have to address every dominant moral paradigm, as long as they do not squelch the ability of a student to voice their opinion or penalize a student for voicing a moral or political opinion different from the professor's.
I support intellectual diversity, but not if it means dumbing down the courses to 'acceptable' levels of discourse as defined by 'everyone'.
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posted
As an 18 year resident of Boulder Co, and son of a teacher there, I have to say that whatever is going at other colleges, CU's left leanings are niether made-up nor trivial, and though I can't speak for the classes (all I took there was math and engineering), I would feel very put upon if only by other students if I where a conservitive living there. Like I said, I can't speak for how the proffesors actually show their left leaning, but the campus is what I would describe as scary liberal.
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Hobbes, I'm not sure that political bias on the part of the STUDENTS really counts in this case, unless it's encouraged by the administration.
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posted
It definitely happens. Heck, I'm experiencing it right now in a graduate level course I'm taking, where I definitely feel I need to keep some viewpoints to myself. Chris, I would agree with you about documenting all instances of professors creating an environment where one political point of view is preached and others are not tolerated, but frankly, in my experience at five universities, including a Catholic one, it is most common on the left. (And as an independent who has repeatedly voted for candidates from three different parties, I do feel unbiased enough to be able to judge that.)
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Absolutley Tom, I agree, I was mostly just saying that the whole campus is very left, and as a conservitive student it can very much get under your skin. That's not to say that the proffesors are necessarily discrimenating (I don't know), or that these students are doing the right thing, just that it is hard as a conservitive student at CU. I agree, they should report all political discrimenation.
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Actually now that I think about it, they shouldn't report all kinds of political intolerance. If they were trying to campaign, to "expose the school" then they should. But they aren't really after media attention or proof of leanings (well not officialy anyways), they just want to show the administration that as right wing students, they experience discrimination. That's it (once again, officialy), and with that goal, there's really no point in showing left wing discrimination.
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I know one thing - my professors kept telling us to use logic and reasoning to back up our arguments. What could be more hostile to Republican views?!
quote: know one thing - my professors kept telling us to use logic and reasoning to back up our arguments. What could be more hostile to Republican views?!
Comments like this should never be a problem in any school. Something that is clearly the opinion of the teacher is not a problem. Teachers are not banned from having political opinions.
The problem arises when the opinions are turned into the subject of the class, and student's grades turn on what their opinion of a certain issue is.
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I have had many liberal professors throughout my 4 1/2 years of university study, and while I agree that some of the statements above, such as politically biased test questions, could be called discriminatory, I think more students need to learn to voice their opinions in a rational manner and learn to stand up for what they believe. Often, a professor who disagrees with a lot of your basic assumptions on life is good for you; it makes you evaluate and define those assumptions.
Just last night, I was discussing Linda Nochlin's famous article "Why are There No Great Women Artists?" in my Women Artists class. The professor asked if anyone disagreed with Nochlin's assertation that there is no definably feminine style and that any lack of female artists was therefore a cause of social inequity rather than a natural gender-related phenomenon. Having just spoken up during the previous question, I hesitated to say anything, but no one in the class was budging. So I raised my hand and explained my standpoint - the lack of women artists in a traditionally masculine field that involves art making outside the home as a commercial venture, across virtually every culture and time period, is testament in itself of an inherent difference in the way women make art. Rather than researching the rare European woman who, by social and economic luck, was able to pursue an academic art career, why are we not instead, in a "Women Artists" course, examining the art that the majority of women in all cultures have traditionally created - textiles, ceramics, and decorative and domestic arts. The women of Panama who are renowned for their unique embroidery work, the master indigenous potters of Mexico, the women of the Amish quilt-making guilds; these are all women who make art according to a biological and social role that has defined their place as in the home. The professor was obviously ruffled by this statement and made several counter-arguments based on Nochlin's text, but I calmly answered them without resorting to emotional or doctrinal appeals. Several students in the class vocally disagreed with my point that there is an inherent biological difference between women and men that affects art-making, but I was glad they did, so we could more fully explore both sides of the issue. After class, a number of students told me that they were grateful that I spoke up because they were afraid the lecture would have been "another feminist diatribe." Why don't they speak up? I see this quite often, as my university has a large number of conservative students but a typical left lean among the faculty.
If you disagree, disagree. It benifits you, it benifts the "liberal" professors who then have to solidify their arguments which could have easily been construed as a "diatribe" without opposition, and it benefits other students who are too afraid to speak out, giving them a chance to examine both sides of an issue and formulate their own opinions.
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"Actually now that I think about it, they shouldn't report all kinds of political intolerance."
These students shouldn't, no. It would dilute their message.
I was hoping for a more general one for general use. Just found one at RateMyProfessors.com, dunno yet how useful it is.
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Well, I dunno folks. Discrimination on anything other than performance and skills is reprehensible.
That said - it happens. Examples from my college days (fuzzy as my memory may be):
Discrimination against females and their opinions Discrimination against males and their opinions Discrimination on appearance (weren't particularly fond of long hair on men) Discrimination on race Discrimination on wealth Discrimination on alumnus
These all happened and were much more irritating than political discrimination. Also, political discrimination rarely resulted in the same levels of grade and social punishments as the others.
I do not dismiss the political discrimination - it is just quite a bit lower on my radar. Unfortunately our educators come to class carrying their prejudices. They run the gamut. All that have attended college tend to know those teachers prejudices and modify (or not) their behavior accordingly. This is also a vital education - short term compromise to achieve a higher goal (the diploma).
I am a self centered, egotistical person. I had serious reservations regarding 50% of my teachers and professors on many levels. If I took offense of all their views, I may well have determined that I was a target of discrimination.
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posted
Darn professors. It's a shame that all the most intelligent people in the country have to be so Liberal. Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
You might be surprised by how true that statement is Frisco... especially in the "have to be" part of it. There is a left-leaning bias in the university system, but perhaps it's always been there to balance the right-leaning bias in the business world.
Somewhere between the extremes lies the truth.
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Something seems wrong with having students reporting professors that oppose the current administration's political views. Seems like this has happened in the past.... perhaps this is the start of the Bush Youth program.
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The possibility of abuses and extremes in one direction does not negate the existence of abuses and extremes on the other.
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That shouldn't really be surprising though, considering that liberalism arose from academic theories in the area of liberal arts and social science.
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quote:Traveler said: Something seems wrong with having students reporting professors that oppose the current administration's political views. Seems like this has happened in the past.... perhaps this is the start of the Bush Youth program.
Since students who oppose the liberal orthodoxy get “reported” all the time, this doesn’t seem so bad to me.
The first year they mandated dry rush at my university, a fraternity hired strippers for a rush party. The entire fraternity was forced to attend “sensitivity training.” There was talk of disbanding it. The Women’s Studies department published a statement to the effect, “We can’t tolerate such Neanderthal behavior here.”
Meanwhile, anyone who complained about the strippers based on a traditional morality argument were condemned for trying to “enforce their morality” on others. And none of them called for formal sanctions – they just said, “I think this behavior is wrong and hoped for better.”
Student Council repeatedly tried to defund a magazine receiving student activity funds because it was “political,” never mind that the political articles were merely commenting on actions and statements of other groups receiving such funds. They came after a speaker organization I ran, but backed off quickly when they realized I already had one of the best first amendment lawyers in the country representing me on another case.
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I never once experienced a prof who graded based on what opinion a student held, or disagreed with. I think it is important to point out, however, that if you are expressing an opinion contrary that which is part of the lesson, you'd better be able to back up your statements.
I don't think that's unreasonable.
And that may be at the root of these students' problems. They may not have done an adequate job proposing and defending their contrary opinions and think that they are being singled out because other students, who ended up with a better grade, didn't do any more work than they did.
Well, here's a question for you. Are you there to learn from the prof or espouse a political point of view. If you are paying to learn from the prof, you write notes about what the prof says and you prepare sufficiently to give back the answers that are expected based on what you were taught. It's called demonstrating a proficient understanding of the subject.
If you want to turn a classroom into a debate, you are assuming: 1) That the prof is more interested in debating you than teaching the other x# of students. 2) That you can win an argument with a prof who has studied a particular topic over the span of an academic career, whereas this is assumed to be your first and somewhat minimal exposure to the subject.
Fact is, a prof who grades based only on your opinion flat doesn't exist. They probably grade lower if you try to disagree with everything they've said and then don't do an overwhelmingly thorough job supporting your viewpoint with data.
See...people seem to be assuming that profs arrive at their opinions the way that they did -- spent 1/2 a semester thinking about it when they weren't too busy getting laid or drinking, or studying the other 4 subjects they're taking that semester. When in fact the prof has made a living of studying that particular field and what sounds like biased opinion when spoonfed in a classroom is probably the end result of years of careful research.
I say suck it up.
Another great life lesson for when you leave academia and try to make your way in the real world.
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My comment was aimed at the comparison of Bush to Hitler. "Reportings" are fine - the proper response to speech is more speech. The use of authority to stifle views was not fine. Someone published an op-ed challenging my views – I responded with an op-ed of my own. Someone tries to remove my organization’s funding based on the content of my speech and I respond aggressively.
The steps taken by the liberal orthodoxy have been the coercive ones in my experience (limited to university settings, not America in general).
If someone disagrees with the characterizations of a professor’s bias, publish arguments against it. Several people here have already done so, and I find some of them compelling.
The point of reporting professors should be aimed at preventing people from using their authority to suppress ideas. Mere statement of liberal (or conservative) viewpoints in and of itself should not be prevented. However, downgrading students who disagree or failing to accurately convey opposing viewpoints (especially in lower level survey courses) should be handled by the administration.
I’d much rather have more speech than less. People who complain about the chilling effect of such sites either don’t have the courage of their convictions or are afraid of losing the advantage their authority gives them.
Don’t go whining that an exercise of free speech is somehow repressive (not aimed at Xaposert, but Traveler). Show why the arguments presented are wrong.
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For one of the first time ever, I have to disagree with Bob (sound of clouds rending).
Professors, like the rest of us, are human. Humans are prone to short-sighted mistakes. Leaving the political part aside, you've never had a teacher be wrong and refuse to admit it?
There are teachers and professors that mark you down if you diagree with them, even if you can back it up. Sometimes especially if you can back it up. Most especially if you can back them up and disprove something that teacher has said in public. There are scientists who ignore evidence that contradicts their theories. There are politicians who ignore evidence that supports the opposition's view, or demonstrates why a bill should not pass. There are doctors who completely disregard a patient's symptoms or complaints if they contradict what the doctor has already diagnosed. There are journalists who bend their reporting based on their own political/religious/philosophical bias.
Anyone who's reputation rests on their knowledge is more likely to be resistant to challenges that prove them to be wrong. But I have little respect for any of these examples, when decisions that should be based solely on facts are instead swayed by emotions, personal bias, and pride.
[ January 21, 2004, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]
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posted
I'm with Chris here. I agree that this can be viewed as a life lesson, albeit a horribly cynical one. But Bob, your characterization of what people are complaining about simply isn't an accurate description. Maybe in a behavioralist psychology program you didn't see it so much, but in my college experience, outside of my math and science classes, it was epidemic. In the education classes I now take to maintain my certification, I regularly see political statements, often at the expense of covering the appropriate curriculum of the class, that are presented in place of facts or open discussion. In my educational leadership class last night, the topic according to the calendar was performance pay for teachers. There is no right set of information on this topic, because it has not been implemented to everybody's satisfation everywhere. What we were supposed to do was make sure everybody understood what the issue was ad discuss the pros and cons to various approaches. Instead, we spent the first two and a half hours discussing FCAT and the stupidities of the policies of both Bushes. And when I say discussion, I really mean pep rally. And my point is not that I disagree, because I agree that there are serious flaws in NCLB and in our current FCAT practices, but that certain statements were presented as blanket facts, in such a way as to make clear that anybody who disagreed with them had no business in education. And this is the norm. It's not a case of a flimsy belief I invented between lays and beers coming into conflict with years of education and research of an expert. I would agree that there are some people who just need to buck up, but that doesn't mean that there isn't actually a problem here.
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The trouble is, I think, that there is not really any line between the facts you are supposed to be learning and political opinion. After all, many meaningful political debates are purely over disputed facts between different schools of thought. Something like "homosexuality can be inherited" is an example of such a claim - an issue that does belong in a psychology class, but is nevertheless also an issue of political opinion.
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In an area such as that, class should consist of debating the issue--to make students aware of the opinions on both sides and what their points are. And that is the typical model in the liberal arts classroom. It is when statements of opinion are placed beyond debate, and so any opinions expressed by students have to accept certain premises as their starting point, that we cross the line.
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Isn't this getting a little police statish? Instead of having a ban on one side of politics, and enforced on the other, we getting close to doing the opposite? I know teachers aren't supposed to advocate one opinion over another, but reporting them?
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I don't know whether the answer is reporting people, or what the consequences of such reporting are or could be. I'm simply acknowledging that there is a problem, and that it is not unreasonable to say that students have a right to receive an education that avoids irrelevant subjective political proselytizing, and, where subjective political statements are relevant, tolerates opposing viewpoints.
EDIT to change "statements" to "proselytizing," because I agree with Chris.
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The problem is not that teachers have political views, or even that they express them. The problem is that in some cases agreement with those views is required for academic achievement, and that is unconscionable.
Personally, I think a well-taught political science class should be filled with lively political debate and you should come out of it with no concrete idea of what politics the teacher actually favors.
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I don't really know what I meant by police stateish. I was wary about putting that, because it's drastic, that's why it says "a little" and "ish", because I'm wary.
What I meant is that even though it is considered better for teachers to keep their mouths shut about politics in school time/class (you're bound to find it out sooner or later anyway and it's not like anyone else hides their political views) that punishing them (another word I don't really want to use) is perhaps going too far the other way.
quote: The problem is that in some cases agreement with those views is required for academic achievement, and that is unconscionable.
That is definately a solid problem. I can understand "redeploying" teachers who are being the politics-police themselves.
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