posted
Do any of you ever feel like the world is turned on its head and nothing makes sense anymore and you may as well go back to bed and sleep till it goes away? Or maybe get a gun, drive out to Montana, and become a survivalist waiting for it all to end?
I grew up in Marshall County, which, despite being on the edge of the north is about as deep-fried Southern as it gets when it comes to race. No, not everyone belongs to the white robe brigade, but more than enough. I spent a goodly portion of my life learning to base my judgement of people on what they do instead of what they look like or sound like.
Only suddenly it's not good enough any more. If I disapprove of something someone does, that's bigotry too! Please, Eddie, don't turn this into another standard homosexuality thread. I really am trying to understand where in the world you people are coming from.
Let's say I'm offended when people curse; I am, somewhat. Am I prejudiced against "cursing-people"? Am I "scatologophobic"? What kind of sense does that make? I just don't like the behavior. If someone were really turning the air blue I might leave, or ask them to stop. Is this imposing my religion on someone else? Am I allowed to have any religious standards at all without being labeled a bigot?
None of this makes any sense to me. I realize the world changes. Why not ectogenesis? There are people who'd be opposed to that, but it doesn't bother me. Reproductive cloning doesn't worry me, nor would the appearance of aliens or construction of AIs--all of which people seem to think would be challenging to religion. I don't sweat technological change; it's normal. It's the sudden shifting of what people consider moral that leaves me baffled. I don't see why it's needed.
I remember that when I was four or five (and no doubt earlier) I liked to streak before bathing. But I grew out of it. I learned that other people considered my behavior offensive and I stopped. Doing it was fun, but really...giving it up was no biggie. Why is this?
I could go on, but I've rambled long enough. Maybe someone can help me get my bearings again.
Posts: 1041 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Hey Maccabeus... it sounds like you're having a pretty tough time at the moment.
I hope things get better.
I think disapproving of someone's manners (be it cursing, or streaking as kid ) is entirely acceptable.
I know I have to adopt different manners around even different generations of my family: my grandfather can't stand me drinking beer out of a bottle (un-ladylike) while none of the rest of my family cares. So is he bigoted for disapproving of my beer-bottle habits? Of course not! And I'm quite happy to accomadate him.
I notice you said to Lalo don't turn it into homesexuality thread. And I won't.
But there is a big difference between disapproving of things extrinsic to people's lives (how much they swear, if they drink out of a beer bottle instead of a glass, if they like dance music, if they smoke, if they drink alcohol) than those things intrinsic and unchanging (ie their sexuality).
To take an (albeit silly) example: if someone very close to me told me they wanted me to never swear again, I would say ok, no problems. If they said they wanted me to change my sexuality - no way.
posted
How's this for a focus (not an analogy, but a real situation) . Should teachers who can't speak English very well be allowed to teach Kindergarten/1st grade. We don't want to discriminate against folks, but how are they people they are supposed to be serving going to be affected? Also the deaf woman who wanted to be a lifeguard.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Maybe that's the problem, imogen. I can't understand why people consider some behaviors intrinsic to their lives.
I mean, there are behaviors that are intrinsic in the sense that I have to do them to keep living--like breathing, or eating. And there are behaviors that are intrinsic in the sense that they're practical ways of getting things done, like walking or talking--things that are extremely troublesome to give up but won't kill you. (I speak as someone who once had to not speak for over a month, following an operation.)
I'm a virgin. I haven't dated in years. I don't know that I ever expect to marry. I'd like, one day, for all that to change, but if it doesn't I'll go on with my life. Does that mean that some people's sexuality is extrinsic? Because I don't treat these behaviors, or lack of them, any differently from other behaviors I enjoy but which pass in and out of my life, or are sometimes doable and sometimes not.
I came to Hatrack in February 2002. I drifted out after a while and drifted back in. Obviously that was extrinsic to my life. But practically everything I do is like that.
Or if it's simply a matter of having to change causing me distress, I got really involved in the Infinity Chantry roleplaying chat some years ago. When it came apart, and during times when I had to be away, I felt more homesick than I ever have for an actual place. Surely that doesn't mean roleplaying was intrinisic to my life? Other than the two categories I mentioned above, I can't think of anything that's really intrinsic and unchangeable about my behavior.
Lastly...well, what I said to Eddie. I just meant for people not to change this into standard-issue homosexuality thread #143, in which people argue the same tired arguments and call each other bigots. If someone wants to talk about homosexuality and how it relates to how the moral landscape of the country is changing, that's not a problem.
Posts: 1041 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
If a person curses, and you don't like it, that does not make you a bigot.
However, if you follow a person around, fining them for every time the curse, in private or public, that is intrusive behavior.
If you condemn that person to hell for cursing, calling them less than human, and demanding that any person caught cursing should be 1)Fired with no chance of a succesful career, nor allow them to be employed in any position where their cursing may ever be heard by delicate ears, even though they only cursed once, after bumping their big toe in the privacy of their own home. 2) Locked in a prison or a mental institution until this deviant behavior is remedied. or 3) removed from all church functions for such sinners must not be seen in church, then that is inappropriate behavior.
I am not sure I would call it bigotry.
I would call it hateful.
Judging people by their actions is not bigotry. However judging the entire person by only one bit of their actions can be. The curser we are talking of may be a fine upstanding person, loyal, honest, brave. However, they were brougth up in a house where cursing is not condemned so it is a habit they are used to. If you judge that person as less worthy, all around, than a silver-tongued conman who never says a bad word, but steals the life savings of little old ladies, than you are being bigoted.
Religion is another thing that is like cursing of sexual preference in that it is an act, or series of acts. It is extrinsic to the people involved, unlike a persons race or sex. Yet you can still be bigotted against a religion. Wether its because their religion does or doesn't do something, it is easy for some people to hate them. "They do/don't believe in Christ. They must be evil or stupid" is a bigotted idea in many peoples minds.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Mac, it may be that your lack of sexuality is in fact intrinsic to your life. Would you like us to pass a law requiring you to have sex?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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) is entirely acceptable. 
