posted
Background: Last September, my wife began an internet affair, couldn't live with herself, and moved out -- 1400 miles away to be close to her family. Like an idiot, I let her take our 3 children with her, ages are currently 6,4, and 3. It is an informal separation, with no legal status or anything, so she and I are both considered to have full joint custody, etc.
My wife works 2pm-10pm Central Time Friday through Tuesday. I work 5am-2pm Mountain Time M-F. I call there daily, generally either right as I get home from work, or at around 5pm Mountain (6 pm Central). As a result, I rarely speak with my wife (and this is at her, well, request is too weak a work, so by her edict, I guess would be the way to say it). Even with that she and I still usually speak about 2-3 times a week, plus occasional e-mails and I write her a weekly letter (to which she hasn't ever responded yet, but hey -- at least I'm trying to keep contact with her) so we do still have some contact. 2 weeks ago she even had me call her at her work and we talked for over an hour, so there's still some relationship there, and once my school is finished, the plan is for me to move to where she is also and we'll go to marriage counseling and all of that in an effort to get back together.
However, something new cropped up this week. I've learned some of this actually from my wife, but most of it from her mother, since my wife was not forthcoming about this, so I called her mother to ask if there was any more information that could be given to me so that I could try to see the situation with all the information. And so -- this is what I have learned:
Objective Facts:
On Tuesday, my wife had a friend over, and he was also there on Wednesday and yesterday. She told me on Wednesday when I called there "so you won't hear it from the kids but will be hearing it from me."
They share some common interests, so the purpose of him being there was to play some board games
He was there for dinner on Wednesday and Thursday
He's not from the area and is visiting
He and my wife were introduced via her brother (I don't know how)
He has been spending the nights at my wife's home
I have much in the way of speculations as to the whys, the hows, and the wherefores (for example, from the information I have, it appears that he made this trip solely to meet her and visit with her, but I don't know that), but those are immaterial to my question of whether this is cheating or just "inappropriate." And, in spite of the fact that he is spending the nights there, I am about 95% sure that she wouldn't actually have sex with him. Even so, am I justified in feeling that this is adultery?
Posts: 1323 | Registered: Aug 2001
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If your wife has moved 1400 miles away and has started seeing other people, I would say that's a pretty clear signal she's not interested in pursuing a marriage with you any longer.
I hope you can start the process of moving on with your life as well and doing what you need to do to facilitate the happiest resolution possible for all of this.
I feel for you, Magson. Talk to us if you need to.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Actually, removing the kids from the state was her foolish, foolish mistake. You could totally roast her, if you wanted to. But as they are your children, you probably care a little bit about how they feel about how things proceed. But you probably should get real legal advice.
I'm really sorry you are going through this, Magson.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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In my opinion, the time being spent (over for dinner, playing games, etc.) is, at the very least, inappropriate (especially considering that your marriage is on the rocks right now). Staying over the night, regardless of whether there is sex involved is *very* inappropriate considering your situation. She may not recognize this behavior as adultery, but I think that it would qualify. I don't think that "having an affair" requires that sex be involved, there is such a thing as an "emotional affair".
It sounds like you two have a difficult time ahead of you, regardless of what happens to your relationship.
It is a form of adultery, as was the prior Internet affair, in my opinion.
The question is, what do you want to come from all of this? That's a tough one and I've seen my closest friend go through this with his wife. He wanted the marriage to work for their son and so in the end he ended up just turning his back to the situation, partly because his wife was diagnosed with cancer during that time.
He was on the verge of throwing her out, but he decided that whatever her take on their vows was, he was going to hold to what he had promised. They are still together, and she is now in full remission. During that time, he lost both of his parents and they racked up medical bills they will never ever be able to pay off.
But each night, he comes home and there are his wife and son and he has his family. But every time I see him, there's a part of him that's no longer there. What he traded for that home and family, I'll never know. I hope that someday he will get it back, though.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Sopwith, the internet affair continues as well and had escalated to use the phone as well as the internet even before she left (I got the phone bill with the calls -- all after I had gone to bed, so obviously done in secret). Plus I got the roaming bill from her calling the internet affair guy while she was on the road moving too.
So AFAIC, she's cheating on me with 2 men simultaneously.
And yet, if she stops, and says "I screwed up and can you forgive me?" I would say yes and want to work things out. I would definitely be MUCH more cautious in the future and expect her behavior to change to no longer include single men at all, and total transparency in any relationship with male co-workers and other married men, but I would still do that. I love her, and can forgive even this.
But I can't be with her and married to her if she doesn't stop this type of behavior.
posted
It is cheating if you (and the generally agreed terms of the relationship) think it's cheating, period. I'd think very very hard before even CONSIDERING taking her back.
Posts: 1839 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
"And yet, if she stops, and says 'I screwed up and can you forgive me?' I would say yes and want to work things out."
Why? Look, let's be blunt: she's been stringing you along for months, and you've been content to let her do it because you're determined to reconcile. But NOTHING she's actually DONE suggests that she's considering the possibility; while she might occasionally offer a few words to that effect, all of her actions suggest that she's well and truly "over" your marriage.
Tell her, point blank, that you're tired of it -- and that if she wants you back, she can drop you a line. And then find a lawyer.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I agree with Tom. As sad as it is to say, I think you need to start thinking of what's best for you and your children and stop waiting on her and start working to make it happen with the assumption that she's not going to help.
posted
I think there’s a conflict of interpretation going on here. She seems to think you are separated, as in, “no longer a couple, we just haven’t worked out the legalities yet,” while you seem to be looking at it more as “married but living separately for a while.” That is a difference that needs to be clarified. I see signs of other possible conflicting interpretations as well, but that’s something a good marriage counselor will help you address if your wife is at all interested in staying in/coming back to the marriage. If she’s not, the best counseling can do is help you work out a civil divorce and co-parenting relationship. The sooner you can find out which of those options she’s planning on, the better for both of you (and the kids).
There are very few scenarios in which I consider divorce (especially when there are kids) the most reasonable/realistic scenario. This is one of them.
I agree with Tom on this one. And keep in mind, your kids are seeing her do this (the sleepover guest) -- and I'm assuming this is NOT behavior you wish them to think is acceptable in a marriage?
I'm so sorry. Divorce/separation SUCKS. And I agree with CT -- counseling would probably be a Very Good Thing right now.
(((((Magson)))))
Email and AIM id are in my profile. Feel free to drop me a line any time.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
PSI -- he was calling her. I don't think it occurred to her that the inbound calls would show up with his phone number on the bill.
And no, this guy is Doug who she met via her brother. The internet guy is John and she met him over the internet. Actually in the Star Wars Galaxies game. I know John's character, and he has been logged in the past couple of evenings (well, I don't know about LAST night, but. . . ) so he's still off in Spokane.
Tom:
quote:Look, let's be blunt: she's been stringing you along for months, and you've been content to let her do it because you're determined to reconcile. But NOTHING she's actually DONE suggests that she's considering the possibility; while she might occasionally offer a few words to that effect, all of her actions suggest that she's well and truly "over" your marriage.
Actually Christmas, her b-day, and Valentine's Day all went quite well, and things were looking up. Now they're. . . not anymore. Still, I'm real big on forgiveness, knowing that if I were to screw up I would want to be forgiven. Additionally, I believe that there's an element of mental illness in here and that she's not in total control of herself at this point, and so I will make allowances for that.
I'm not a bitter, angry, or vengeful person. If she's willing to return to me, I'm willing to take her back -- just now it's conditionally upon her changing her behavior. And if she won't, then we won't get back together. I can accept that.
And to protect myself and our kids against the possibility of divorce, yes, I am contacting an attorney to see what all can be done, and to get advice that way.
CT: I have been to counseling. Haven't been in some months, and am going to be starting again next week due to this. She said she needed to move out to get counseling in the 1st place for her own personal issues, but has yet to do so, and is now highly resistant to the idea anymore -- probably becuz she knows the counselor is gonna tell her she's screwed up and needs to get her life turned around. . . .
Anyway. Thanks for all your kind words everyone. I really appreciate them.
Posts: 1323 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Jon, I'm sorry. I've been thinking about your situation and praying for you all for quite a while now, as you know. This moves it into a whole new category in my book, though.
I'm with you -- I'd desire to give reconciliation another chance. I know there have been those up moments (Tom, when you said "nothing she's actually done suggests that she's considering the possibility," you weren't entirely correct), but as horrible as an ultimatim from you may be, what she's continuing to do is far worse.
I don't know your wife, and I don't know her take on the situation. I have extreme difficulty in seeing what spin she could put on it to make it positive or even acceptable at this point. I know you want to forgive and be able to move forward, doing what's best for you and her and the kids. As optimistic as I'd like to be, I doubt anyone's going to avoid being short-changed here. She made her choices, so it's you and the kids who need to be the focus of your efforts now.
I have to echo those encouraging seeking legal counsel in addition to the personal counseling. And if there's anything else I can do (not likely from SoCal, I realize), don't hesitate to ask. My prayers will continue unabated, though the focus may shift a bit.
posted
She may be mentally ill, but if she's not willing to get help I don't see that as relevant. I'm hearing "she wouldn't do this if she were in her right mind" but if she isn't willing to move toward a right mind, you only have the behavior to act on.
I think it's admirable for you to want to be supportive and forgiving, but I am concerned about your children. 7 months is a long time to a child (how long they have been gone.)
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I admire you for being willing to forgive and wanting to work this out. For your children's sake alone, reconciliation is the best thing.
However, you can't force someone to stay in a marriage who doesn't want to. As much as I loathe the idea of divorce, I must admit there are situations where it's inevitable.
Abuse, adultery, abandonment. Those three big A's qualify. In my opinion, you have been a victim of the last two. She left you, leaving behind the marriage, and she refuses to stop an affair that has been ongoing for some time.
I'm so very, very sorry Magson. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
My fiance would have taken his wife back until the day their divorce was final. He did not want it; he did not seek it. She had an affair. If you ask me, he would have taken her back up until the day she remarried. I even offered to leave the picture if he thought there was a chance they could work things out. (We met a month after their divorce was final.)
Your willingness to forgive and reconcile is admirable. I think you should continue that. You made promises and vows to her. I commend you for keeping those promises even though she has broken some of hers. This could work out and it can be better. But it will be hard. Your children want their parents to be together. And, that is the way it should be, even though that is the harder route.
However, Belle is right. (What's new ) If she doesn't seek help and want to change on her own, you can not force her. My fiance had to come to that point.
Another note: There is a very good quote from "When Harry Met Sally." "Adultry isn't the problem, it's only a symptom."
Why is your wife seeking so much attention? That is the problem that needs to be fixed. My fiance knows why his marriage failed; and it wasn't his wife's infidelity.
You sound like you sincerely love your wife. Try to see through your hurt and pain to what ever is causing her to reach to anyone for more attention.
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Yeah.
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) If she doesn't seek help and want to change on her own, you can not force her. My fiance had to come to that point. 
