posted
I think the wrong person got thrown out the window. Should have been the teacher.
quote: When the girl asked why the teacher had taken her picture, the teacher allegedly responded with a disparaging remark about the girl's appearance.
posted
I wonder if the picture was evidence of an outfit that was against school dress code and the disparaging remark was addressing the issue.
Probably not, but why else take a picture? Wish there was more detail. Taking pictures of students with no proclaimed reason sounds a little creepy to me.
Posts: 1034 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
If I were the girl's parent, I certainly would pursue criminal charges against the teacher. There is no excuse for that at all. And especially there is no excuse for enlisting other students to do her dirty work for her.
Perhaps the student deserved discipline for cursing the teacher. Throwing out a window is not appropriate discipline in any circumstances.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Throwing her out a window was uncalled for.
I had a teacher who told a story about breaking up a fight. She was a tiny old woman, and the two fighters were both linemen on the football team. She took off her shoe and said, "Whichever one wins gets the shoe in the head."
posted
AN office assist button on the classroom wall? The only other time I've ever seen one of those was when I did some teaching in a prison, once. Is this a regular thing in the States, or does it say something about the school????
Either way, my vote is in for uncalled for.
Posts: 466 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I think it's amusing more than anything else.
Actually, I can completely see what happened: The arguement starts, the teacher sarcastically tells the boys to throw the girl out the window. The boys know the teacher has a history of writing people up for disobeying orders like this (we had a teacher in middle school who wrote several girls up for reporting her to school authorities). In addition I imagine the boys feel it's a fun game and the teacher would tell them to stop before they ever get to the window. She doesn't, and they have a choice between backing down and losing face or just throwing her. So they throw her. It's really not an unimaginable situation.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I can see you're playing devil's advocate blacwolve. The situation you describe is possible, but not as likely considering what we know from the story. But, the story isn't necessarily objective... Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
I want to know the full story, and I highly doubt this is it.
I wonder if the teacher was joking(not that it was an appropriate joke). I just think there is more to this story. OK, as a teacher, I WANT to think there is more to this story.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
You got me, Zam. I didn't even notice. Well, I think it sounds uncalled for. But again we only have partial information. I was hoping the word "defenestrate" would actually be involved.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
The story was weird by the time it got to the photograph. Without knowing what prompted that first act, it's impossible to say what was going through people's minds during the rest.
Office call buttons were standard even in my preppy suburban school. You never know if a kid is going to have an asthma attack or something. "Scary" schools are characterized by things like metal detectors, big barred gate structures, and full-time police forces.
Posts: 1839 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I'm not playing devil's advoccate, I'm not sre how you could reach that assumption. From the facts in the article I'd say my senario is the most likely.
Perhaps the word sarcastically sounds less serious then I meant it to sound? I mean it would have been said angrily but with the teacher not expecting it to be carried out, and yet too angry to stop the boys when they did carry it out.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
While I agree it may have been initially sarcastic, no teacher in their right mind would have gotten angry enough to not stop that while it is happening. That's utterly ridiculous. She must be going senile.
Posts: 369 | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
Now, I could see myself saying something like that. Granted, I'd stop the boys as soon as they made *any* motion like they were actually going to do it.
I mean, I've told students to stop what they were doing before I hung them out the window by their eyelids. Then again, aside from the squick factor of that, I'm pretty sure none of them believed I'd actually do it.
Still, though, I'm forwarding this article to all the teachers I know, since I'm *sure* they each have at least one student who deserves a Chuckie award. :tips hat to Rick Reilly:
Posts: 106 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Okay, now. Let's make this interesting. We pretty much all agree that this teacher, no matter how it may have happened, seemed to need to be removed from teaching.
What about the boys?
Does the excuse "my teacher made me do it" wash? We've established that soldiers have a duty to disobey a criminal order. Of course, these kids aren't soldiers. Still, how do you learn, except through small consequences while you're young?
I think these kids ought to have some sort of consequence. Possibly as much as suspension; at least detention.
If they do, people will say it's wrong. You can bet their parents would go ape. Heck, I might go ape myself in the same situation.
But at this remove, I say they deserve some consequence for not disobeying this clearly inappropriate order.
What do you think?
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
The problem is asking minors to define the word "inappropriate".
A lot of the reasons disciplinary procedures like detentions and suspensions are in place are to set boundaries for what is appropriate and inappropriate behavior.
You might say that the students can refuse teacher requests that contradict school policy (which undoubtedly includes restrictions on unacceptable physical contact with other students), but don't ask them to gauge what is and is not an appropriate teacher request.
Many students would simply take that as an open ticket to deny whatever a teacher asks of them.
Posts: 106 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I sometimes wonder, in my most exasperated classroom moments, why it's never the TEACHERS that come to school with machine guns and blow the STUDENTS away!!! Hey, over the top I know, but so's hanging them out the window by their eyelids!
Posts: 867 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
I think you develop people's judgment precisely by asking them to demonstrate judgment, and then telling them if their judgment was appropriate. I'm not sure that I agree with saying "you can't ask them to . . . "
quote: Many students would simply take that as an open ticket to deny whatever a teacher asks of them.
And when they were wrong, they would be punished.
But in any case, I'm sure the point is moot, since I'm sure there are rules in place about physical contact, as you say. If a teacher instructs you to disobey a rule, I think that's a fair instruction to disobey.
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
My concern, Mega, is not so much in your standard run of the mill classroom of high school kids. One would like to think they can determine what is appropriate, though sometimes you'd be surprised.
What do elementary school students gain from telling them it's okay to disobey the teacher if the teacher makes an inappropriate request? Or middle schoolers who are just making the transition between child and adult.
I mean, they have likely been warned about teachers touching or hurting them, but many don't think twice if a teacher said "Jimmy, count the number of times Sally talks out of turn" or "Kimmy, whack Johnny for me". (I've seen that last one, and it shocked the hell out of me)
It's also problematic telling students in special education pullout classes it's okay to disobey when you don't feel the request is appropriate. Many of these students don't have any idea what is or is not appropriate.
I think the onus is on the teacher not to put students in the situation where they need to make that choice. If you ask a student to do something inappropriate, your entire identity as a trusted authority is called into question. You need to lead by example, and address inappropriate behavior whenever it crops up - otherwise, students continue to push the boundaries of acceptable.
When students are given leave to do something by their teacher, they often take that to heart. Especially if they're given leave to do something they *want* to do - like take out their aggressions on another student.
As far as punishment for the two boys in this case, I don't know. I'd probably go with an after school meeting with the school counselor and/or principal, to explain to them that physically harming someone isn't okay regardless of who asks you to do it. Maybe even an assigned essay comparing their actions to the whole "just following orders" concept - they are, after all, in high school.
While I'd like to *think* students would have the wherewithal enough to disobey a teacher who asks them to do something inappropriate, actually making an issue of students disobeying teachers can cause more problems than it fixes. I mean, how often do you hear about teachers telling students to throw kids out a window?
I think that the boys did the throwing, and should also get consequences. The teacher is obviously getting consequences, but I think that it is awfully easy for a kid to take a comment out of context and act on it just to be a pain. Kids(all people) can be very vindictive, and take an obviously kidding remark seriously on purpose if they want to get back at someone.
Again, I would like to hear the whole story.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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quote:“She was a veteran school teacher. She had came out of retirement and taught language arts and social studies at Sharp,” Viniard said. “She was voted Sharp teacher of the year in 2003, but ultimately lost out for county teacher of the year.”
quote:According to an NCSO report, the incident took place Tuesday between 10 a.m. and noon. Peoples allegedly took a picture of the three 14-year-old students without their permission. When the victim questioned why she had taken her picture, Peoples allegedly responded by saying, “So I can show the world your ugly a----.”
quote:While Peoples did not touch the student, she reportedly opened the window prior to the victim being dumped out on her head, police said.
And the boys were worried about getting written up? Doubt it.
The teacher was clearly out of line, and should have known that deliberatey baiting a child with an emotional/behavioral disorder will get you nowhere except in a stand-off.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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