posted
I hope someone has some good advice, because this is keeping me up. My son (let's call him Boy Opera) received a birthday e-mail from my mother today. I haven't spoken to her in 2 years. She's toxic, and my siblings don't speak to her either. In the e-mail, which I haven't showed Boy Opera yet, she said that if he sends our new address that she will send something for him. We moved to another STATE and I didn't tell her, that's how bad things are between us. She somehow found out my e-mail addy, and instead of trying to patch things up the only other thing I've gotten from her was a forward. So, is it wrong for me to just delete the e-mail w/out telling Boy Opera about it? He's nine, and knows in a general way that we don't see her because she has problems. My daughter, whose six, wouldn't recognize her if she saw her on the street. I wouldn't want them to have private visits with my mother, but am I wrong to cut off all contact, including e-mail? I don't want them to one day resent me for it. Thanks
posted
I would delete it. He's young enough that he still needs protection from toxic people -- you wouldn't hesitate if she weren't related, right? Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
without knowing more about the people involved and the background it's difficult to give advice, but based on what you've told us, I'd have to say I agree with Rivka - if your mother wants to get in touch and wish her grandchildren happy birthday after such a period of estrangement, then she should do it through you. If she has other motivations for getting in touch with him, then my feeling is that you are well within your rights as a parent to protect your children from any sort of manipulation.
Posts: 466 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I think I might tell him about it and ask if he wants to see it. If he said yes I would talk to him a little about what it meant and what we expect from her, given her past actions.
I'm not big on protecting people from all knowledge of things that they may need to know about someday. I'm in favor of letting them decide what they want to know, and providing advice and direction about how to interpret it. Being open about my true thoughts, while keeping it as kind as possible and maybe not sharing the very ugliest parts until the kids are older or if they ask for more information.
Kids know a lot more than we give them credit for, usually. And what you want to avoid is having ugly or shocking things come as a complete surprise later on. If they know about things in general, and you are open when they ask for more details, then they don't feel later that you betrayed them or lied to them or kept important things from them.
[ April 30, 2004, 02:07 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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posted
Wow. Now you're going to keep me up with the morality of that. My first inclination would be to respond to the email asking for more detail. But, then, now I think that that idea might not be great, either.
Posts: 903 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Thank you everyone for the advice so far. As for how toxic is she...drinks a lot, once rented an apartment and hooked up cable under my name, forgets her children whenever there's a man around...and that's nice stuff.
The bad part is sometimes I feel sorry for her. I wish things can be different. I'm struggling with not having a mom, and to try and make decisions like this for my kids is hard. We saw her at Christmas because my grandparents begged and she brought toys for the kids. We didn't speak though. I guess I just don't want my kids to be disappointed and heartbroken like I have always been.
Posts: 2578 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
You should protect your children, but not to the extent ot cutting off all contact. Just edit the email before you give it to him. Take out her address and the parts that solicits information you don't want to give out.
Little kids do not judge their grand parents, they love them unconditionally and without reservation. I know your mother has done some crummy things in the past but you should give her every possible chance to make it up to your kids (with proper safety precautions of course).
Be honest with her. Tell her you are thrilled (yes, thrilled) that she wants to talk to Boy Opera but you want to step in and regulate the communication. If she is truly sincere about contacting your kids, she would accept your conditions.
If she wants to send something, give her the address of a trusted out-of-state friend and have them forward that gift to you. I'd be happy to do it, but cannot promise that gifts involving food or PS2 games would reach Boy Opera. Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
They are your children. You decide what's good or bad for them. You have every right to delete the e-mail.
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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You have every right, but I believe you would be wrong to do so.
While you are understandably bitter and resentful about your mother's past -- and disdainful of her present -- I see no reason to cut her out of your life, or the lives of your children.
My own mother is not exactly a winner of life's lottery; she's a recovering alcoholic who's congenitally unable to hold a job or follow through on any plan, and spent most of my childhood alternating between bringing home men who'd beat me up and beating me up herself. The day I left for college, she moved down to Florida and sold most of the stuff I'd left behind to help finance the move; she kept the most sentimental stuff as blackmail, to ensure that I'd see her again in order to pick it up.
I've seen her for a total of about a week in the last ten years.
And yet we still talk, and we still exchange letters and gifts, and I have every intention of letting her visit my daughter -- in my presence, of course. In fact, I suspect she will make a better grandmother than she did a mother.
Family is family. If your mother is so unreasonable and so raving mad that you think any contact with her is dangerous, that's one thing -- but my gut feeling is that a birthday wish is harmless, and perhaps even indicates a desire on her part to re-connect with you through your children. (I suspect, for that matter, that you believe the same thing, which is why you reacted as if the card were poison; you seem committed to preventing any such opportunity.)
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
If your mother wants to contact your children, given the circumstances, she should do it through you. You have every right to protect your children from toxic people, related or not.
Being honest with your kids about it is also good. They need to know that they shouldn't give their address to grandma, and why, just in case she tries to contact/get it out of them in some other way.
There are a couple people in my own family whom I love, and I know they love me, but I also know that they aren't trustworthy, or 'safe.' We just keep loving them as best we can, but since they've broken our trust (I don't think they even realize that what they've done is wrong sometimes), they don't get that priviledge anymore.
Posts: 188 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Wait a minute, you say this is the first contact you have had since you moved? Now she is attempting to bribe your son into telling her where she can find you when you clearly have reasons for not wanting her to succeed. I would definitely let Boy Opera have the letter, but as was mentioned previously, without the request for information. If he does want to respond, I think that would give you an opportunity to gauge her motivtion for the contact. If he sends her a nice, newsy thank you e-mail and she follows up with another thinly veiled request for your location, I think that would help you make your decision. If she is interested in becoming involved in her grandchildren's lives for noble purposes, and not as a means to underhandedly get information, then without knowing more about the situation, I would cautiously allow the correspondence to continue. If she is just trying to use Boy Opera to get to you, then I don't think anyone would condemn you for nipping it in the bud.
Posts: 894 | Registered: Apr 2000
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After a lifetime of dealing with a horrible toxic grandmother and her often toxic daughter, I have a really hard time accepting this statement. Especially when one of them uses it to browbeat me into forgiving them unconditionally for their latest attack. I've finally started to believe that, no, your biological relatives are not always "family", not in the sense that you're obligated to love them or care for them. If they get their thrills from pushing you into an emotional breakdown every single time you communicate with them, they are NOT family. If years of trying to reason with them and explain that they are hurting you falls on deaf ears, then forget it. It's not worth throwing your own life away just because they are totally screwed up.
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"After a lifetime of dealing with a horrible toxic grandmother and her often toxic daughter, I have a really hard time accepting this statement."
I think the trick -- or, at least, what wound up being the trick for me -- was figuring out how to associate with my family without giving them any power over me or my emotions.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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To be honest, I wouldn't mind being cut off from my grandmother. I just can't do it on my own because I know it would hurt her. Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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It's impossible when they refuse to let anything drop. I'm stupid and worthless and out to make their lives miserable because I'm marrying a Jew, and it is not possible to talk with them for more than 10 minutes without hearing all about it. Since this usually leaves me incapacitated by tears for the rest of the day, and since nothing has changed in the four years it's been going on, don't you have to say enough is enough?
Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
I think it is horribly inappropriate for her to try to circumvent you in this way and I would either not let him see it or use it as an opportunity to explain about manipulative and unhealthy behavior, if you think he's mature enough to understand the lesson.
If you have decided that she's poisonous enough to keep away from your children, then do it.
edit to add disclaimer:
Jim-Me is not a licensed therapist but is a graduate of *several* 12 step programs...
posted
Have you ever talked with your kids about their grandmother -- I mean just in general? I mean, in school they are going to hear other kids talk about their grandparents, and I was wondering if you have ever sat them down and explained to them in simple terms why they normally don't have contact with this grandmother.
I would caution that such a discussion should not only point out the bad, but also the good, of the person (your mother). This is due to the fact that kids are able to realize that this is a part of their history, their bloodline. (For example, I wouldn't sit around and slam my ex-husband all day, because I realize my kids identify their dad as being half of themselves, and big part of who they are, so I don't want that negative connotation with it). So say the good parts, say a little of the bad parts, so they understand why there currently isn't contact with her.
I wonder how she got your e-mail address.
You could always reply to her yourself (I know you don't want to) and let her know that if she wants to contact the kids she needs to go through you, and not directly to the kids.
posted
Wow, everyone has certainly given me a lot to think about. Tom, I'd like to ask you a question, since you strongly believe that family is family. Have you and your mother ever had conversations about your childhood? I think that's one of my main problems. My home was abusive as a child as well, but my mother has never really admitted that anything was wrong. The one time I confronted her about it she said, "The past is the past." But I have always needed closure on this. Believe me, I could look past her current problems and just have limited contact with her if only she would say, "I'm sorry. I should have protected you, and I'm so sorry that I didn't."
quote:I think the trick -- or, at least, what wound up being the trick for me -- was figuring out how to associate with my family without giving them any power over me or my emotions.
I was never able to figure out how to do this in regard to my mother. There was a time last year when I thought that I was going to be forced into having contact with her. I actually contemplated harming myself so that I would be in the hospital and wouldn't have to go see her. That's how terrified I was of having contact with her.
Rest assured that I understand how toxic a parent, even a mother can be. Space Opera, if you have no intention of resuming a relationship with your mother yet, then delete the e-mail.
------------ By the way... I'd research the grandparents' rights laws in your state before letting your mother have contact with your child. If she establishes herself as a presence in your son's life, it may be impossible for you to ever cut off contact with her again, even if you desperately want to, because she may be able to sue you for visitation rights.
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posted
I don't agree, Tom. Family is not always family. An accident of birth does not trump toxic behavior.
Her behavior in trying to circumvent Space Opera strikes me as predatory. And children DO need protection, because young children can't understand that sweet-seeming adults who are solicitous of them might have ulterior motives.
I moved away from where my mother (as far as I know) lives. She does not, as far as I know, know that I have kids. If I have any say in the matter, she will never meet them. She has no rights. I have no mother.
Space Opera, I don't know just how bad your situation is. But I don't think you're out of line, or wrong, to take action to protect your family from an abusive person. And emotional abuse is still abuse. And if your son becomes a pawn in your mother's attempts to emotionally abuse you, he is being abused as well (whether he realizes it at the time or not). So, while I don't necessarily know where the line needs to be drawn in your case, I don't think anybody has the right to second-guess whatever judgment you finally do make.
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Also, Space Opera, do you know anything about borderline personality disorder? Your mother sounds like she might fit the diagnosis.
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posted
What does it hurt to let the boy see the email, if the email doesn't say anything bad? The worst that would happen, that I can see, is that you'd have to explain to him why you won't let him contact her - which I think you should be prepared to do if you are going to cut her out.
posted
Thanks again to all who've replied. Yohzik, it's funny you mentioned that. My sis is a nurse and she swears that our mother has that.
For now, I've just decided to delete the message. I thought about replying and telling her that we had issues to work out before things could go on with the kids, but to tell the truth...I'm not ready to work issues out with her. Not because I hate her or anything, but because I am tired. I don't know if that makes sense, but the last 2 years have been the first time I haven't been constantly upset about her. It has been emotionally draining since I was a child, and I'm not ready to return to it yet. Thanks again, everyone.
I know what you are going through. My grandmother is a paranoid schizophrenic. She made my my mother, her brother and sister's lives a living hell. She was a terrible mother, doing many of the same things that your mother has done, including forgetting about her children when a guy was around.
vwiggin:
quote:Little kids do not judge their grand parents, they love them unconditionally and without reservation.
I couldn't have said it better. My grandmother may have been the World's Worst Mother but damn if she didn't turn out to be the World's Best Grandmother. Funny how that worked out. She may be crazy as all hell but I do love her and can't imagine what my life would be like without her.
Please don't deny your son the opportunity to get to know her. Of course it might be a good idea to feel things out a bit by responding to her email and see what state of mind she is in before letting her visit with your children.
Best of luck to you! Posts: 2064 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Here's the thing you might want to consider. If you shield your child from your mother during his childhood and he discovers her without your input later in his life you might experience some real resentment. Life presents choices that are tough at times and I'm thankful I don't have this problem. I would encourage you to find a way to introduce your mother to your child but always with supervision.
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Keep in mind, folks, that you know next to nothing about this situation. Heck, we don't even know precisely what "toxic" behavior is--just some general symptoms. And if you can't prevent somebody toxic from hurting you when you are with them, then you damn sure aren't up to protecting your kids from them. Space Opera, I think we're a bad source of advice, because we don't know enough to truly see things through your eyes. So most of what you're likely to get here is feel-good-love-will-save-the-day advice.
Weigh the damage from not knowing their grandmother against the damage she could do by being emotionally abusive to them as you say she was to you, and then decide. Every situation is different, and in some cases, it might be better to let them have contact with her, or you might believe she can change. Both of my parents were abusive, but I have come to trust my father completely. Not my mother, though. Every case is different. You yourself say you don't want thenm to have private visits with her. But if you allow e-mail contact, she will immediately start pushing for the next thing, I suspect. What's the point of allowing partial contact, anyway? Either she's a part of their life or she's not.
Can you trust her not to hurt your kids, or can you trust yourself to put a stop to it when it starts?
Weigh the risks in either case, being guided by your duty to your children, as I did with my parents, and then make your decision. You can always change your mind later. But once you decide, anybody who says you should do differently, without truly being in your shoes, is speaking through some dark orifice usually covered by clothing.
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