posted
You do realize that hating pop culture because you think it makes you sound more intelligent is no better than being a one of the mindless teenyboppers you so despise...right?
I've been wanting to say this for a very, very long time. I'm fed up with the idiotic, stuck-up attitudes that are so prevelant on this board. Obviously, if something's popular, it sucks, right? Because if the masses like it, it's not good enough for you, the elite.
Disliking something because you've examined it and decided you don't like it is one thing, but it seems to me that a lot of you hate anything that has the slightest element of pop culture because you think it's the cool, intellectual thing to do. To me, it looks a whole lot more like insecurity.
posted
This to me falls in the same category as "anarchists" that conform with nonconformity.
I think you made a rather gross generalization there Pearce. I'm sure you're right about some people on some levels(and I have a few in mind myself), but I don't think that this attitude that you mentioned is especially 'prevalent' on the board. I've seen plenty of people admit to liking mainstream bands and cheesy action movies like XXX.
Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Before this progresses any further, I'd like to say unequivocally that both Lindsay Lohan and Hillary Duff are -- without any thorough examination of their careers on my part -- corporate whores. Their careers are the results of a designed marketing strategy.
Along those lines, I will be the first to cheer when Ashton Kuscher is sent to any given maximum security prison.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I'm not an elitist... I could find something I like in anything, including 2 Celine Dion songs. The stuff I like is so diverse and random such as- Japanese rock and roll. You know what's really annoying? People who won't give Japanese rock a chance because it's in Japanese. Now that's irratating.
But I did want to start a topic about whether or not I hate a movie, book or a song because it's bad or because it's just not my taste and I just can't feel it. Like some popular movies. I don't hate them just because they are popular. I hate them because they are lame, dull with bad acting and uninteresting plots. I hate some pop music because it's trite, they use the same boring dull beats, the lyrics are not interesting and I just can't... feel it deeply. Some popular books are the same way... But if you look hard enough you can find wisdom and beauty in ANYTHING...
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
When I see a Britney carbon copy peddling her nearly bare self on MTV and showing off her shrill nasally singing voice, I roll my eyes involuntarily. I suppose that means I'm too quick to judge.
I like weird stuff too--except instead of Japanese rock, I listen to Arabic music (www.mazika.com). Funny thing is, most of that stuff is on the pop side of the spectrum .
quote:I think you made a rather gross generalization there Pearce
Yeeeup.
Personally, I like things because I like them. Or not. I neither follow the masses, nor shun the masses because it's the "intellectual/elite" thing to do.
I also think you could have worded your post better.
Posts: 1431 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
But also consider both P. Diddy's career choice and environment. It's more than understandable if she tires of the pseudo-intellectuals snobs that no doubt surround her, chasing after underground bands in desperate hope of affirming their self-titled status of cool.
Personally, if I had to spend a week in her life, I'd be carrying around a boom box on my shoulder and singing along to Justin Timberlake.
Cry me a river, BITCHES!
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
If you say so. Personally, I'm guessing it's just my abundance of idiocy and snobbishness that, thanks to my incredible charisma, Pearce is mistaking as the universal flaw of the forum.
Totally understandable, personally, if she spends more time thinking of me than the rest of you. I mean, really, you're just commoners.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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I haven't seen that much of what you're talking about here, but I'm familiar with what you are saying.
I think when a person learns to be critical -starts to develop their own tastes - that they can quickly turn a blanket critical eye on the source they've been spoon-fed from.
There is something inherently "cool" with discovering something new and beautiful. The communication of the discovery can be key - "I found this totally obscure thing and it makes me cooler than your ignorant ass" vs. "I ran across this wicked thing I'd like to share with you and here's why I think you might enjoy it."
posted
I think the problem lies in just thinking that all quality lies in one certain domain. I know several people who won't watch anything with subtitles. It goes both ways.
I would admit to being guilty of this very thing if it weren't for the fact that I unabashedly listen to Destiny's Child on occasion.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I do too. Bootylicious is a funny song. And their videos are not so bad either. I could go from opera to heaven knows what in just one day... It's all good if it moves you...
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
He can't be talking about me. If my brow was any lower I'd have to have a shopping cart to carry it around.
Posts: 2258 | Registered: Aug 2003
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I haven't seen that much of what you're talking about here, but I'm familiar with what you are saying.
I think when a person learns to be critical -starts to develop their own tastes - that they can quickly turn a blanket critical eye on the source they've been spoon-fed from.
There is something inherently "cool" with discovering something new and beautiful. The communication of the discovery can be key - "I found this totally obscure thing and it makes me cooler than your ignorant ass" vs. "I ran across this wicked thing I'd like to share with you and here's why I think you might enjoy it."
fallow
This is not only the best post I've ever seen from flish, it's also the most coherent.
Which may or may not be synonymous.
Posts: 7600 | Registered: Jan 2001
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But I also think, pH, that this board is made up of a lot of self-professed nerds and geeks (me included ) who were ostracized at some point in their lives and therefore associate pop culture with something that has rejected them personally. I know I did for awhile.
Although I may be grossly generalizing.
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
That's great and all, Kasie, but it's not an excuse to take it out on the undeserving. If you're pissed off about being bullied in high school, blame the people who should be blamed - the bullies. Period.
And actually, I was also a huge outcast in high school. So?
Posts: 9057 | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Hmmm, I think this thread might have been started in response to the backlash about the Friends finale...
So if we're tallking TV, I've watched shows like West Wing which were/are popular and really enjoyed them. It used to be really smartly written TV (I don't know what it is now - I stopped watching after Aaron Sorkin left. Maybe I'll watch it again when the new season gets picked up by Bravo for reruns).
Technically as an elitist snob, I shouldn't watch any TV because mindless TV viewing turns brains to mush from lack of interaction. I suspect that some of those that loathe the popular TV shows are among those who don't watch very much TV (and are prolly better for it) and attack Friends because it's the #1 rated show. I just don't like it because the writing on the show isn't very good. But it does appeal to the lowest common denominator which makes it popular.
I guess you could generalize that to music, films, art, books, entertainment, etc. There's brilliance that is popular because it's just so damn good, and then there's the kind of stuff that is cheap and dirty and easy making it popular (like a lot of fluff).
Posts: 1423 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Why is appealing to the lowest common denominator necessarily insulting?
Stephen King appeals to the lowest common denominator in a lot of his books. I would say that most of them aren't brilliant. But they are cheap, easy fun reads. I'm not ashamed to say I've read a lot of them. They were fun to read. I don't think they improved my vocabulary at all or had really great themes, though (in re: themes -talking about non-Dark Tower series, non-Talisman stuff).
Action flicks appeal to the lowest common denominator. I go rent the Steven Seagall and Schwarzenegger movies and enjoy them without shame. But they're definitely not great movies and the writing is for crap.
Posts: 1423 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
errrm... What the heck are you talking about? Can't think of anyone here who hasn't heaped effusive praise on one part of pop culture or another. Or anyone who hasn't slammed a portion.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
If you're refering to my comment that friends sucks: I just want to say that I don't like friends because I find it a rather boring and nonsensical show.
Posts: 2489 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I have to admit, I like Friends now and then, but I absolutely loathe the "reality" shows. And also a lot of these "pop" shows.
I also can't stand movies like Sorority Boys. They have to make at least some sense, or I end up hating the movie. If there are too many "that could never happen" moments, my opinion of that movie is pretty shot. Unless you're talking about action. (James Bond)
For the most part, I agree with most of your post, except for this part:
quote: I've been wanting to say this for a very, very long time. I'm fed up with the idiotic, stuck-up attitudes that are so prevelant on this board.
I agree it's insecure and stupid to hate "pop" movies/music because of that label that people put on them. But I disagree that it's prevelant here.
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote: They were fun to read. I don't think they improved my vocabulary at all or had really great themes, though (in re: themes -talking about non-Dark Tower series, non-Talisman stuff).
So by your rubric, the only good books are those that increase your vocabulary and have good themes? There is so much more to a good book than that, but if you want to be close-minded, I won't stand in your way.
I think Stephen King novels are written just fine. It takes a lot of writing talent to keep people interested. If you think his kind of writing is so easy and it only appeals to the "lowest common denominator," then why don't you go and write some? Why isn't it your name I see on the shelves at the bookstore?
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Not too fond of Stephen King except for Eyes of the Dragon. I went through a brief John Saul phase back in jr. high school. It's all a matter of taste. Lik for example, I dislike most rap. Rap is monochromatic and boring. This does not make me a snob, it just means I dislike rap, that it isn't my taste. I prefer Laurell K. Hamilton to Stephen king myself, but that's a matter of taste.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
There's nothing wrong with something being fluff. Fluff serves a very definate purpose. When I'm upset or depressed, or just plain worn out, I don't go out and read Faulkner or Chekhov. I read David Eddings and enjoy every minute of it.
Why does something have to be all deep and philosophical for it to be worthwhile?
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I believe Ellsworth Toohey once said that the best way to destroy the human spirit is to hype mediocrity to such an extent that no real talent can be recognized.
I don't hate pop culture but I do despise the corporate marketing machine that hypes a great (but not awesome) show like Friends as the Greatest Emotional Experience of Our Time.
If I have to see one more slow motion promo of Ross and Rachel almost, but not quite, kissing with enya background music, I may do something crazy like turning off my TV and actually reading a book or something.
I can't believe I live in a world where singers like Mandy Moore and Britney Spears are considered to be in the same class as Christina Aguilera. Christina is a singer; Mandy and Britney are merely entertainers.
BTW, Hatrack has shown much love to pop phenomenons such as Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, POC, Matrix, ER, West Wing, Star Trek, etc.
Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Personally I check everything I watch/listen to/read before hand, and make sure it's not part of the "pop-culture". I use my "pop quiz" to find out. The pop quiz involves asking some random person on the street, who is clearly part of the masses, if they like the subject in question. If they do, I call them an idiot and go home. If they don't, I call them an idiot and go buy it. The best though is if they haven't heard of it, then I can give them the "you are so ignorant" look.
posted
It doesn't have to be deep and philosophical to be worthwhile, but maybe it has to be deep and philosophical as part of some people's criteria for deciding good?
Different people have different decision mechanisms for this sort of thing, why get ticked off either way... Scratch that, I can understand getting annoyed, but why make it an issue?
quote: I can't believe I live in a world where singers like Mandy Moore and Britney Spears are considered to be in the same class as Christina Aguilera. Christina is a singer; Mandy and Britney are merely entertainers.
I can't stand all of them, but Christina Aguilera is a whole other story. I don't think I could explain my detestment of her image she gives off in a civil manner, so I won't.
quote: BTW, Hatrack has shown much love to pop phenomenons such as Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, POC, Matrix, ER, West Wing, Star Trek, etc.
Hasn't Hatrack liked things before they were popular? Lord of the Rings, for example. Popular for most people older than 30, but I had never heard of them until my mom bought me the books for my birthday years ago. That was when they said, "Soon to be a motion picture epic by New Line Cinema!" I read through those and loved, them and nobody my age ever heard of them.
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Harry Potter is some deep and good stuff. It frustrates me a little when I try to convince people to read it and they say, "It's too popular." or something like that. It has some of the best themes ever. Friendship, loyalty, standing up for what's right. That's what I love about it. Not because millions of people read it, but because it really does move some deep part of me that needs stuff like that. Now, what I hate is stuff that has no redeeming quality or purpose to it. People with no talent or mediocre talent getting mega popular when they cannot act or sing or dance or write. Stephen King can write. Shawshank comes to mind. It's such an excellent story. What I'm tired of is shows about people on some island that have to marry a millionaire who turns out to be a janitor from some small town and they have to choose between eating scorpions for 100,000 dollars and marrying him for 2,000,000 dollars if they can just convince their family that he isn't gay or obnoxious. That just makes me sick.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I feel that often people who already dislike something may dislike it even more if the majority of other people like it and obsesse over it, kinda like chris's article. Also the same thing can happen when those people act like you're wierd if you don't like it.
For example I have never liked basketball, but I dislike it even more when everyone I met assumed I liked it because everyone just had to like basketball, and they considered me wierd when I said I didn't like it.
Posts: 2489 | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote: I can't believe I live in a world where singers like Mandy Moore and Britney Spears are considered to be in the same class as Christina Aguilera. Christina is a singer; Mandy and Britney are merely entertainers.
Yes Christina is an artist for sure. That song "You're Beautiful" was inspirational, and not hypocritical in any way what so ever. Oh and "Dirrty" was clearly a master piece.
Posts: 3564 | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
I like the reality shows that are similar to game shows: The mole, survivor, the amazing race. I think it's because I think of them as a competetion that includes a variety of challenges. But all those dating and living together ones are extreamly boring.
Also I don't know about anyone else, but I have no clue on what some people's facsination with the olsen twins are. To me they look rather ugly, and they suck at acting.
I love Christina's voice. And if enjoying her songs means I also have to endure her nudity and blatant sexuality then goshdarnit that is just the kind of sacrifice I'm willing to make.
Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Anyway, I do know what Pearce is saying and yes, I've noticed it on this board as well. Tell me none of you can remember a conversation that goes like this:
*****
Scene: The Card's living room. A group of friends are relaxing when one friend brings up a popular new television show, "Show x".
Stevie: "I like Show x"
Belinda: "I can't stand it so I never watch it."
Dustin: "What's Show x?"
Paula: "I don't really know about it because I don't have cable."
Brad: "I don't even have a TV!"
Cayleigh: "I don't have a TV *and* I destroy them at every opportunity"
Roger: "I don't own a TV and I bustigate them AND I've been known to beat up famous TV personalities."
Jordi: *weak voice* "I like Show x"
CURTAIN
*****
*shrug*
There's always competition for who's the most ignorant, who had the worst housemates, who's job is the worst, etc. Not just at Hatrack, in general. I do it all the time (and it bothers me to no end).
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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) who were ostracized at some point in their lives and therefore associate pop culture with something that has rejected them personally. I know I did for awhile.![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
