posted
Why not pile them all in the same thread, so we can keep up without having to search back pages? These threads are not "begging the question", most of the time. They don't tend to stay on top. It will be much easier to find if we post it all in here, so that's my suggestion.
I will dig up Persuasion as soon as I'm finished with Brothers, but I do remember it some from my first reading. How do you rate this Jane Austen Boyfriend on a scale of 1 to 6? (Most to least favorite.) My favorite of all is Henry Tilney from Northanger Abbey, I think. He was so funny and had a great attitude toward life. I'm really proud of how he stood up to his horrible father, for instance.
The most famous JAbf is probably Mr. Darcy from P&P, wouldn't you say? He's probably only my 3rd or 4th favorite. I think he was a bit of a stuffed shirt, to tell the truth. I bet he quits laughing at Elizabeth's jokes before the first decade is out, and starts being snippy to her. Do you think? I hope not, but I worry about him a bit.
I don't remember the JAbf from Mansfield Park but I thought Fanny was such a nebbish. I didn't like her at all. She was just not anybody, to me. She had no thoughts of her own, and made no decisions, that I could see. So whoever her JAbf was, I probably rate him near the bottom.
The very bottom of the heap would be Colonel Brandon from S&S. He was the equivalent of suicide to a Marianne type person, I think. I loathed that ending. I actually liked Willoughby much more, though he turned out a rotter. There are Willoughbys who are true blue, too. Not all Willoughbys are bad hats.
Mr. Knightley was fairly cool. Emma's dude. I think he'd be 2nd or 3rd on my list.
But I can't remember much about the JAbf in Persuasion. Someone remind me what he is like.
[ May 16, 2004, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: ak ]
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I can't really rank this JAbf against the others, as I've only read a couple of her other books a Very Long Time Ago. But I can refresh your memory a little.
Captain Wentworth and Anne Elliot were deeply in love and engaged 8 years before the book begins, and she bowed to the persuasion of her father and Lady Russell and broke the engagement, because he was an inappropriate match. Now he's back in town, after having become a rich man, and everyone considers him a fabulous catch.
At first he appears indifferent towards Anne, and then it's clear he's still mad at her. But he's always kind, considerate, and thoughtful... a perfect gentleman. In character, he is meant to stand head and shoulders above the other men in the book, and he does. And even when they're both pretending they meant nothing to each other, he steps in to help her out when necessary.
He comes across to me as very realistic... a good man, a bit stubborn. I was certainly rooting for them to work it all out in the end. My chief complaint with the book is that it all ties up too fast with a big red bow... They've been avoiding each other for 263 pages and then everything, including a few hastily introduced subplots, is all wrapped up in about 15? And once they admit they still love each other, he solves all her friend's problems, too. I would have preferred a little more depth to the ending.
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Well, I've finished Persuasion, and started on Brothers, and this is so fun. I like having Summer reading that is really for pleasure, and that I don't feel obligated to do. I don't know, never liked doing it for school, but I like to read.
Anyway, I agree with you about how it could have had a longer resolution, but in that way, I sometimes think less is more. I mean, if you can pull it off to make the book last longer, that's good, but sometimes, the main problem has been solved, and then books will continue on until they lose all their steam, when they'd be much better off ending earlier.
I was really surprised that I liked the book as much as I did. I think I had misconceptions about whether I'd enjoy Austen's writing style, but I really enjoyed the book, and thought it was an enjoyable read.
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Confession #1: I'm only one chapter into the book. I know, I know, I need to get a move on! That said, I am going to be speedy and read it in the next couple days because company is coming and I want to be finished before they get here.
Confession #2: This is my first Jane Austen novel, and I've always been skeptical about whether or not I could get into them. I love the movie versions though, and I want to marry Mr. Knightley. So, I'm thinking I'll be like ElJay and it will take a little bit for me to get into it, and once I do I'll enjoy it.
*whew! feels good to confess!
*goes off to read the night away
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Okay, am reading Brothers Karamazov now in earnest and am struck first of all again with how much I love my dear Fedya (the author, NOT the character, though they have some undeniable commonalities).
The last time I read this book I must not have been religious at all. I remember feeling a bit bored with the digression into Elder Zosima's life, in fact. This time, though I am really still in the very early parts, I feel very much more deeply about the religious aspects I've encountered so far.
The thing that astonishes me at this point (and I'm in the middle of the meeting of all parties in the monk's cell), is the complete realism. Here in this novel Dostoyevsky is at the very peak of his powers, and I happen to feel he is the best novelist ever. With just a few words these people are so alive and so real. Aloysha has my heart already, and I feel his mortification. Fyodor Karamazov (I'm struck with how odd it is that Dostoyevsky gave this character his name) is someone I've never met anyone like at all, yet he's incredibly alive and vivid. I believe in him entirely.
I wonder how much of this undeniably somewhat autobiographical work is actually taken from Fedya's life. Whether his (the author's) brother Mikail is perhaps like Dmitri at all, or whether, as I've heard before, all three brothers (even all four) are different aspects of Dostoyevsky's own character. Certainly the elder Dostoyevsky was reportedly very much like the elder Karamazov is described, and of course he was murdered "by his own serfs".
This is the last novel Fyodor Mikailovich wrote before he died. It is in some ways a summation of his entire life's work. I am very glad you guys prompted me to read it once again. I'm seeing much this time around that I have never seen before.
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I'm about at the same place you are, ak, and I have to admit I'm finding it slow going. But partly that's because I don't have a lot of time to read right now, and I do better reading in large chunks. I'll keep trying. Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Well, I'm only reading for a short time each day. Once I get further into it, I don't think I'll be able to maintain that. I tend to not be able to put books down, and stay up all night reading and so on.
Anyway, I really adore Aloysha. The way he's reacting to the teasing by the young girl is just wonderful. And the elder Zosima is so great, the way he is reacting to the play of personalities around him. I love how he loves everyone so, the liars and the murderers and the ridiculous ones and those who suffer so cruelly and all of them. He sees right through them all and loves them. Dostoyevsky was very religious by the time he wrote this novel, so I think I am experiencing that part along with him for the first time. How odd that it never touched me deeply, the religious feelings he feels and shows, before now. I love this book so much. And my Fedya. What an amazing human being he was!
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I finished Brothers Karamazov finally a week ago, after reading it in a period of 3 months where time was so scarce! Its probably now my favourite book of all time, and although its a bit heavy to start rereading it now, I do look forward to doing it
I think the characters in this novel are more vivid in this novel then in any other, I could almost hear them in my head as I read, bad russian accents and all
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance looks interesting, hopefully I can get trainspotting finished in time and read it with you all in july, that is if I can find it in a used book store, being a poor student and all ^^
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Mintieman, tell us more about what you think about The Brothers Karamazov! Which is your favorite brother?
Another question which I find interesting just arose in the spot in which I am now reading (chapter 6, I guess). Aloysha's fellow novice at the monastery says that he's a Karamazov too, and they are all sensualists. He says that Aloysha is also a sensualist. This struck me. Is Aloysha's life in pursuit of beauty and purity and love and spiritual light and all that (or whatever he seems to be pursuing) just another (possibly higher) form of hedonism?
One more question: I've gotten sensitive to the characters that authors don't seem to like. I decided that all characters deserve to be loved by their author, the same as all people should be loved by God. Does Dostoyvesky love the elder Karamazov or not? He's depicted as such a scoundrel. I've noticed that he doesn't give him the benefit of the doubt. He will use words (at least words which are translated) like sneer and lying and farce when describing his speeches. Is he trying to excuse himself for hating his father? (Since I have no doubt that is who we are actually discussing.) Is he fair to the old man or not? Would it be possible to retell the disgraceful scene in the monk's chamber, for instance, in a way that is much more sympathetic to the dad?
[ June 14, 2004, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: ak ]
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The characters in Brothers Karamazov are what I liked best. In comparison, characters in other books seem rather lifeless. The rather lengthy moral discussions, especially the ones by the elder, and the court case I found amazingly gripping.
Dostoyevsky doesnt seem to like the father much, hes always depicted as being worthless, but I like the elder too much to think that you could re write it in a more sympathetic way. I do think that he uses a narrative voice on purpose so he CAN put his opinion on things ever so slightly, especially in the case of the father karamazov
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I know, I know, I need to get a move on! That said, I am going to be speedy and read it in the next couple days because company is coming and I want to be finished before they get here.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
So, I'm thinking I'll be like ElJay and it will take a little bit for me to get into it, and once I do I'll enjoy it. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
