quote:Can anyone join or do you have to be born into it or marry into it? Are the kids going on missions out to convert or merely "Spread the word" as it were?
Anyone can join. The missionaries are there to teach the gospel and to baptize those who are ready, so their purpose is to facilitate a strong, lasting conversion.
quote:How does the Mormon church support members who are "seekers?" I mean, those people who have doubts and ask questions about literal Bible stuff (easy target, but where lots of questions come from) or the harder stuff like "but really, why Salt Lake?"
Are you asking what is the place for doubt? Well, it's inevitable, isn't it? I mean, before you can get your own answers, you have to have the questions and a period of asking them. So before anyone gets a definite answer, they need to doubt.
Brigham Young (the second president of the church 1846 - 187*mumble*) said that all latter-day saints have an obligation to ask and to know for themselves. There's lots of places for doubts and questions - seeking and getting answers to that is how you grow.
If the question is how much doubt can you have and still get baptized, then the basic questions cover a testimony of God the Father, Jesus Christ as the Savior, the Book of Mormon is scripture, modern revelation (prophet is living today and leading the church), and that Joseph Smith was a prophet, acting for the Lord when he translated the Book of Mormon and founded the church.
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There is a difference between those are still seeking and want to join without being sure, and those who were members before and have new-found questions. You need to have your prayers answered and be sure of your choice before getting baptized, but if you were baptized before and find yourself with doubts and questions, you certainly shouldn't leave while seeking answers to them.
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Tom is Technically, if you are an official (baptizied) member of the Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints then you are not (or should no be) a seeker, someon who is unsure if it is the one true faith. Non to say that people with doubts are some how no members, just like every other Church, the Mormon Church has members whose faith ranges all the way from just about apostate to ones who woul die over their convectins; however, before a baptism, you are asked a series of questions to which your answer has o b a full "yes" to, questions about you faith.
But, the Church is very enouraging of people "investigating" the Church. The Mormon misionaries try to fin these people, bring them to Church and teach them the Gospel. Anyone interested in seeking the truth is welcome into Church (there are actualy instructions in the D&C about not letting people into a Sunday meeting if they are not seeking for truth, but unless you start getting beligerent or something everone will be thrilled to have you there). I did 9 months of this before joining, most do less, but some people spend year like that, the more you know the better.
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In lieu of any new conversation, another UU Joke:
quote:When the fire breaks out on church row, the churches are empty.
When the priest hears the news, he runs into the church long enough to bring out the consecrated wine and wafers. The rabbi rescues the Ark of the Torah. Of course the UU minister and the church council rushed into the church and held A DISCUSSION GROUP about what to save.
Eventually they emerged carrying the conference table.
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I think the discussion about the LDS compared to the UU is interesting. With UU, there really isn't a "final" step (beyond the grave, of course). There are ceremonies that mark certain events but the "search" goes on and on.
Which makes me wonder. If you buy into a particular faith that, once signed on the dotted line like Tom put, expects one to hew close to the path, why go to church any more?
I am asking this innocently, really. For me, church is the sort of endless quest to find out more about my spirituality, if there is any, and more importantly how to give my daughter a foundation that will allow her to find her own spirituality. She may very well choose to leave the UU church to attend something else, but I want her to have as much of a grounding in the possibilities before that happens. It is a place to ask questions, explore ideas, etc.
But for a faith that pretty much says you HAVE to be at the point of understanding and total devotion at the time of signing on (baptism) seems counter to ongoing religion. It is like going to birthing classes long after the child is born!
Does this make sense? If not seeking, why seek out more information about a church you already buy into on a week to week basis?
Just curious.
As a side-note, at what age are kids expected to make the leap of faith in Mormon traditions (if that makes sense)? This was what kind of turned me off of Catholicism. It asks teens at a very sensitive age to buy into a religion at an odd time, to me. I don't know when a good time is to "decide" to join a church (by that I mean the Catholic rite of Confirmation). It was after Confirmation that I quit, oddly enough. I think you have to be an adult to "sign on" as a member of a UU church. You can participate as a family member and do all the things kids and teens do at church, but you sign on as an adult (and there is some ceremony around this, of course, that varies from church to church).
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I hope it comes with the territory to have a sense of humor about your denomination if you're a Unitarian Universalist.
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posted
I think that the deal with church (and other congregational-type religious meeting places) is...it is a support group and a fellowship. That's my understanding. Not so much the quest for spirituality as a place to worship together (praise) and ask for help (of God, of your fellow congregation members).
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jexx, that was quite true of my church growing up; the coffee hours often extended to two or three hours! Just talking about each other's lives, ambitions, problems.
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You know I have been a UU too long when I forget WORSHIP! Thanks for pointing that out. That is probably the biggest difference in UU churches from others. There is no "worship" per se going on. I mean, if someone in their heart of hearts is doing a bit of worship while the service is going on, cool, but even the more Christian/other centered services never focus on worship. It isn't like there isn't reverence for the ancient wisdoms or standing in awe of the mysteries of the universe or even our humble little planet. There is a lot of that going on, but there is no fealty towards them, only a deep awe and overriding stewardship towards things natural. In terms of spirituality, it is all a mystery worth exploring with or amongst others.
Worship *smacks forehead* Totally forgot about that.
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On Baptism being the end of a spiritual journey:
quote: 2 Nephi 31
17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.
18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.
19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.
20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.
Baptism is just the gate; commitment to a faith is the start of the path.
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