posted
They read the Declaration of Independence this morning on NPR, which I've heard before but it's always very cool and gives me chills to listen to. I was struck with the feeling that we DO determine our own conditions, and that we ARE a free people.
But when they got to the part listing our grievances against King George III, the list sounded eerily and scarily familiar. Lots of those things are stuff another George is now doing in Iraq, particularly these.
"He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences"
There are, of course, big differences here. For one thing, the U.S. is working and planning to give back sovereignty to the Iraqi people as quickly as practicable. For another thing, the U.S. is paying all the bills for the soldiers billeted there, and so on. Still, it is very disturbing to me how little the current administration seems to value the rights and freedoms which are at the foundation of America. I wonder how long it's been since today's George read the Declaration of Independence.
On July 4th, 1776, King George III of England wrote in his diary, "Nothing of importance happened today."
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posted
It was noted on the radio today that while a recent poll found that "only" 52% of Americans were in favor of the war in Iraq.....
.... back at the founding of our country, only about one third (37%) of the colonies were in favor of the Revolutionary War. They went ahead with it anyway, and now we are an independent country.
But they didn't have media interpreting the polls, of course..
Farmgirl (and this is probably far off the intended directin of this thread)
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posted
Ah, Farmgirl, I never intend any particular direction for my threads, but just post things about which I would like to hear hatrack's ideas and opinions.
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quote:It was noted on the radio today that while a recent poll found that "only" 52% of Americans were in favor of the war in Iraq.....
.... back at the founding of our country, only about one third (37%) of the colonies were in favor of the Revolutionary War. They went ahead with it anyway, and now we are an independent country.
But they didn't have media interpreting the polls, of course..
There were not polls back then, only a minority and highly exclusive intellectual crowd who collected opinions between themselves and sometimes included some of the merchant class. That number, however it was gotten, is not indicative of the whole of the population of the colonies. Furthermore, it's not even indicative of including the merchant class, who defended Britain's claims at first, but as more tariffs and taxes began eating away at their profits to pay for the British military peacekeeping forces, even that waned. By the time the shots were fired at Lexington, the lower and lower-middle classes were almost completely behind the revolutionaries, and they far outnumbered the intellectuals who recorded their own opinions. But since those lower-class farmers and laborers weren't counted, it doesn't sit on any of the records kept by the intellectuals of the time, natch. After Lexington, even more of the merchant class began backing the revolutionaries, though often through quiet means. Not many of the rich and well-to-do could be bothered fighting, after all.... in that respect, very much like today.
So, you may want to call into that radio station and clear that up for them, if they want to claim to be speaking factually and not politically slanted.
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posted
It should be noted that the troops in revolutionary times, IIRC from my history class, were being quartered in private citizens' houses, not just in country.
Edit: I'm not sure that I agree about the rich and well-to-do not fighting back then... they were the officers more often than not and as late as the civil war it was not uncommon for your rank to be determined by your social status (an obvious example is Col. Robert Gould Shaw, whose story was made famous by the movie, "Glory").
this particualr aspect of the discussion reminds (of course) of a Chesterton Quote:
quote:There is a corollary to people being too proud to fight... that the humble must do most of the fighting.
posted
Yeah, but housing the OccupationAuthority head honchos in Saddam's palaces warn't none too bright "winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people"-wise. Kinda like choosing Saddam's political torture&disappearance"dungeon" AbuGraib as the place to confine US-held Iraqi prisoners.
The stench of a bad reputation rubs off onto the next proprietor.
posted
I saw the trailer for National Treasure when I went to see SpiderMan 2 tonight, it looks good.
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posted
When my daughter's school had a Famous Americans Exhibit, I walked around and listened to all the historical figures tell their tales. An interesting one was John Barry, head of the fleet during American Revolution.
He said that he had to hold a few people at gunpoint so they would sign the Constitution. I told him I thought that was rather nasty, and that I was disappointed to hear it. He said, "Well, he felt had to do it. At that time, he didn't think it was wrong. It was just what people did back then."
Funny how a nine year old child can kick your brain in the butt sometimes.
When we did American Revolution pop-up books in my social studies class, we read "My Brother Sam is Dead," which is a novel based on primary sources. It was very interesting to read how many people wanted NO part of the conflict, or were on the side of the British(whom they did not really separate themselves from)
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Yes, CT, sadly he did. And I guess he also died sad. That always makes it so much worse. I have been thinking of all the quotes he made famous.(there are a few on the marlon Brando thread)
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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quote: On July 4th, 1776, King George III of England wrote in his diary, "Nothing of importance happened today."
Strange,
The diary of the voice inside the head of George W. Bush wrote the same thing...
ak,
Not to be too brief, but history repeats itself. Again and again, in fact. You are just one of the intelligent and clever ones who took the quote
quote: To not know history is to repeat it.
so seriously. But still, we as a society, find a way to do just that. Frustrating as it is, the world will keep on changing. I say do not fight it, just embrace entropy, engage your seat belt, and hang on.Posts: 1870 | Registered: Mar 2003
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