posted
Sickening. Why the hell can't people like that ROT in jail and stay there for treating children like that? The laws need to change! Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Where's a little vigilante justice when we need it!
Yes, I know my answer will tick off most people, but I am sick and tired of hearing about the rights of the accused and being politically correct in the sentencing process. These adoptive parents deserve corporal punishment, not just short term sentences or probation. Their diet should consist of the same one they provided for their captives. Their prisons should be no larger than the ones for their captives. LET THE PUNISHMENT FIT THE CRIME!!!!!!!
Posts: 279 | Registered: May 2004
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Gads, this sort of abuse is happening around us daily. I see this sort of stuff monthly and my job isn't in child enforcement... People don't even try to hide this kind of stuff any more. I really wonder if the social barometer is busted. I have been in meetings with parents. I am there to help the family get the services they need because their child has a disability and they are in need of assistance. Yet, just sitting there, I will see parents yell and scream at their kids, grab and tussle and more than once hit the kids. I of course have to stop the meeting, stop the hitting, call CPS and away we go. And it isn't that I am hiding in a corner or using a secret camera...I am just sitting there, talking about helping out. I swear, I don't think people have any clue what they are doing is wrong, some times. And that is a VERY scary thing. We don't need cowboy justice and crowds with pitchforks, though. We need some serious education and support for neighborhoods and communities. We need parenting classes for underage parents (many of the parents I work with had their kids when they were kids themselves). We need some serious oversight for people who adopt kids. Even a yearly check in with the kids to see how things are going once the adoption is final.
posted
On the other hand, the standards for this have changed drastically and stuff that was commonplace fifteen years ago will land you in jail now.
Having been regularly spanked with a belt and more than once paddled at school, I was utterly astounded at my first counseling session to hear my LPC say that she was required to report me to CPS if she found that I was spanking my children with anything other than an open hand...
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I really have a hard time with the "well, we were beaten with a belt..." crowd. Just because it was "okay" 15 years ago doesn't mean that it was ever the right thing to do. I think hitting kids with anything, hand or otherwise, is a "gateway" punishment that allows for more extreme actions. I am sorry...there isn't a big difference in my mind between using a leather belt to hit a weaker child and using the same belt to shackle them to a bed. What is the difference between using a wooden spoon and the slightly larger wooden broom stick to hit people?
If a parent who outweighs a child by 3 times has to resort to violence against their child, they have already lost. They are pitiful excuses for parents when they have to resort to violence.
Having specifically experienced some of the abuses those kids did (though not at the hands of my parents) I know better than to compare the two. There is no question in my mind (nor should there be in anyones) that what those parents did was abusive.
I was just pointing out that over 1/2 the course of my lifetime so far, we have changed drastically from: "'x' is ok for teachers to do without parental consent" to "'x' is not ok for parents to do at all." that's pretty damned drastic, especially with no notification to those who grew up one way.
Fil,
You have the rights to your opinions. I think calling people "pitiful excuses for parents" because they think spanking is appropriate at times is a little extreme.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Having seen too many people who translate "spank their kids a few times" to being a weekly occurance, pitiful is not too strong at all. If you feel hitting your child, even a few times, is okay I can't stop that. But it isn't in the least bit strong to say it is pitiful behavior. Sorry if you feel it is too strong of language, though. I am not saying parents who hit their kids don't love their children. But all we teach children by hitting them is that we are bigger and we can hurt them any time we want to. Bullies do this, as well. And to me, bullies are pitiful, too. If one's child rearing tool box has as its last resort hitting smaller human beings, then one should invest in a new tool box. And believe me, I am not a wishy-washy and permissive parent in my own home. My daughter is a strong-willed 5 year old and simply talking through our issues isn't enough. But if I ever raise my hand to her, she has won the contest of wills, not me.
quote:Having been regularly spanked with a belt and more than once paddled at school, I was utterly astounded at my first counseling session to hear my LPC say that she was required to report me to CPS if she found that I was spanking my children with anything other than an open hand...
You got paddled at school? Where and when the hell did you grow up?
And why wouldn't my teachers paddle me...?
I've specifically requested as much several times.
Aw yeah, Miss Perez.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
for me, this brings up issues of respect and the lack of - especially with children today who have never even been told to say "Yes Ma'am" or "No ma'am". Parents of this teen generation who were raised by strict families have let their children run wild. There has to be a way to raise your kids with discipline and respect, without resorting to beating them with broomsticks and locking them in a frigging closet. People who treat their kids like chattel are not parents - they're simply breeding. I was never spanked. Plenty of emotional abuse, but that's another thread.
I cannot offer advice, only my opinion. I have no children, only neices and nephews. I cannot tell anyone how I think their children should be raised, but I think I'm at least allowed to say what I think is important. I have the *utmost* repsect for those who have children and make an effort to raise them intelligently.
Ass-whoopings (IMHO) don't really teach kids anything more than to act in fear of retribution. For a cradle catholic like myself, that's normal. Most people shouldn't have to grow up like that, especially considering what we've learned about child development in the past 20 years.
I've lost my coherent thouhgt, so I'll come back to this later
posted
TMedina, howdy! The things that really work with my daughter are (so far) removing her from fun situations. If she has a hard time listening while playing outside, for example, we take her in and do the ol' time out. Last night, she went ballistic when she was told "no" about something. She had a planned play date with a neighbor after dinner. Now she doesn't have a play date. It was tough stuff. Lots of her yelling, kicking, screaming...actually, to a point where we are freaked because she really hasn't done this in two years since her terrible 2-3's. We think it is a) transition to Kindergarten coming up b) a foot condition that is stressing her out (a plantar's wart, of all things, but she is stressed about it) and c) lack of sleep this past week due to lots of activities that went too late (parent problem, not her problem).
We take away items she might use inappropriately (if she throws a toy or fails to put it away after many reminders) and so on. This is the big stuff. It is hard and sometimes takes us having to sit outside her room to redirect her back. This is as bad as it gets, though. Most times a simple disapproving look is enough to steer her into safer behavioral waters. She is so responsive to this that even in a crowded situation we can give her cues to cool it without raising our voice. She responds pretty well to this most of the time.
We are lucky, we know. She really wants to do well and hates it when we are upset with her. She, like most children I think, wants us to approve of what she does. What is more important is we spend most of our time rewarding her positive stuff and reinforcing when she makes good choices and so on. Not "hey kid, here is some candy" but genuine praise and such. And we mean it. She is the light of our life and the reason for our being here. We treat her like that. We don't even hit our dog. Why would we hit our child?
Is it harder to do than those who take the quick and easy beating? Heck yes. It takes a LOT longer to help our daughter to make better decisions. Lots of tears and yelling on her part and grim determination on ours to stay the course. Sure, it would be easy to hit her and say she will get more of that if she doesn't straighten out. But we won't go there.
Hope that makes sense. Sorry to ramble on about (he says as he reads over this lengthy rambling)!
posted
Fil, you're the child-rearing expert, but have you ever encountered a kid who was smarter than his parents? I mean that seriously. My parents tried giving me a good talking-to a few times--I talked rings around them if they let me speak at all. They gave me "time-outs" (people didn't use that term yet) in my room, where I was thrilled to read as long as I wanted. I never responded to disapproving looks or words--I really didn't care what my parents thought, so long as I got the fun I wanted. (Sometimes this creeps me out--I have heard that it is a sign of nonattachment, which has been known to produce psychopaths...)
Yes, part of this was my parents' failure to understand what motivated me--that, for instance, I didn't much care for running around outside anyway. But given that they didn't, the only way they had to get me to obey was to intimidate me with force and a little pain. I hated, resented, and despised spankings--but so long as my parents consistently held to the same line on what was prohibited (which they didn't always), I never did what provoked it again. Well, at least not past the age of two.
I hope my kids aren't smarter than me; I hope, if I have any, that I can figure out what motivates them. But if genetics runs true and they are, I will feel no guilt about a few slaps to the buttocks, should that be what it takes.
posted
Eh. I think you're going about this all wrong -- what we need is positive reinforcement, not negative. If my hot female teachers (as opposed to my hot male teachers, yes) had spanked me for being good, whoo damn, I'd be a Mormon today.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Really? Can I get that certified? I never said I was an expert. I wouldn't think it would take a child-rearing expert to know that hitting little kids is a bad thing to do.
But...onward...
quote:have you ever encountered a kid who was smarter than his parents?
Seriously, yes I have! I seriously think my own daughter is much smarter than me. Your own story points to why only hitting you seemed to work. You said it yourself...your parents didn't know what motivated you. That is the biggest job of a parent, I think. Know your child! I know what motivates my daughter (today, anyway). She loves to be read to at bedtime. We read all day to her...a half dozen books a day at a minimum. She loves it. But the bedtime ones is the most special (for me, too). Take that away once and she remembers the next time. Then we only have to threaten to the next time (hopefully). But doing the same thing over and over will cause it to lose effectiveness. Even hitting kids will lose effectiveness (I learned this as a child myself). We just constantly try to figure out what motivates our daughter. And not just to "take it away" because, let's face it...a happy child is one who is having fun, has a bit of control and knows her boundaries. Most days, she is cool. Bad days are ones where we have to impose those boundaries that she isn't use to having or we have a schedule that doesn't allow for fun stuff (like lots of family and friend gatherings that cause a lot of uprooting and driving to new locations).
It isn't a matter of who is smarter. Dogs outsmart their owners daily and they have only the most basic of intelligence. It is a bit about control but more about setting boundaries for the child to live in. For me, anyway. We hope it works. For the life of me, I can't see how any situation would have to be ended with hitting her. Even to imagine it makes me shudder. Ugh.
posted
Hmmmm...sweet, sweet hot for teacher. So if you were spanked by your hot teacher you would BE a Mormon? Dang. Just me thinking about that as a kid kept me from being Catholic! This Mormon religion is sounding mighty fine!
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I never said I was an expert. I wouldn't think it would take a child-rearing expert to know that hitting little kids is a bad thing to do. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
