posted
Not true, I think - I know good people who really dislike children and animals.
I don't think you can measure a person (in an absolute sense) by any given standard, except perhaps their own.
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posted
Then I would say they're not good people. They might be good except for how they treat children and animals, but they're not good in an unqualified sense.
posted
Then no one is good, because everyone fails in some area.
What about someone who is nice to children but spreads gossip about their boss? Do you feel the same way?
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posted
Who doesn't perpetuate cruelty and pain in some way?
As I said, I know people who treat children and animals in ways I wouldn't consider too nice, but I've observed that those people are still good people. Thus, to define good people as only including people who treat children and animals well would be wrong. And since I don't agree with that conclusion, I'm not going to be convinced if you say my observations about them being good people are wrong because good people would treat children better. That'd end up circular.
posted
Kat, I'm refuting one particular statement, that someone can mistreat children and still be good. I never claimed everyone who is nice to children is good.
posted
I know. And I'm asking you to expand on it - if one malevolent act makes a person unfit to be called good, can anyone ever be? Since no one is perfect, what malevolent actions can be taken that will not disqualify someone from the "good" label?
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posted
There is not a person on the face of this earth who is _unqualifiably_ good. Everyone has flaws. Some of those flaws are considerably worse than others.
It isn't up to us to decide whether someone is good or bad. That is between them and God (insert 'their own moral code' if you do not believe in God) It is up to us to determine when and how to help people, and when those people have become so detrimental to the community that they must be removed or at least restrained.
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quote:I know. And I'm asking you to expand on it - if one malevolent act makes a person unfit to be called good, can anyone ever be?
It's not one act - I think a person can commit almost any act once and still be good (or become good at a later time).
But Xap described said these people "don't treat [children] very well" as if it were an ongoing pattern. It's the ongoing nature that keeps them from being good.
posted
But being benign towards children isn't the ultimate measure of a person's goodness, either.
What if the person is indifferent towards children altogether? Not particularly fond, and therefore doesn't have any and stays out of the way when he runs across them. You could not say he was kind to children, but it isn't impossible for this person to be good.
quote:If no one can be called good, then this doesn't matter because Xap's still wrong.
Again, you said my definition was weird, not wrong. I can accept that, but it's still right.
To find out, we'd need a list of people who are to be considered good. Go around and ask people who they know that is good - I bet many of them will be people who aren't necessarily the kindest towards children and animals. I know I've heard Slash claim, for instance, that he can be, eh, grumpy towards kids, to put it one way.
posted
But he also isn't kind to children. You can't judge him by how he treats them, because he does his best to not treat them any way at all.
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quote: What if the person is indifferent towards children altogether? Not particularly fond, and therefore doesn't have any and stays out of the way when he runs across them. You could not say he was kind to children, but it isn't impossible for this person to be good.
You pretty much just described me there But I do like animals quite a lot, am raising a bunch of them, volunteer at a shelter, and do my best to intervene on their behalf when I see them abused or neglected.
I pretty much agree with the assessment that how a person treats children and animals speaks to their general character. I'd actually expand it to say "anyone/anything less powerful than them." If someone is a model citizen in all respects except that they get their jollies by, say, tormenting homeless people, I wouldn't say they're a good person.
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posted
And you can measure them that way. You can also measure them by how they react to being cut off in traffic, whether they hold the door open for others, and how much they give to charity.
Just like I can measure a desk with a ruler, or with a scale, or by seeing how much water is displaced. Each gives you certain information, all related to the matter that comprises the desk.
posted
So what you are saying is, if I see anyone who has power over someone else intentionally cause harm to that person, and make a habit of it, I can judge that person as a bad person?
That would make almost everyone I know a bad person, including many on this forum. How many people here have repeatedly attacked newbies coming to this forum, for instance?
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Yes. But I'm not sure I've seen anyone habitually attack newbies around here. Every once in a while someone new has clearly been a troll, and every once in a while a newbie has had some pretty outrageous behavior and been put down. But I don't think anyone has ever been attacked simply because they are newbies.
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And this weekend, that hasn't been a joke, eh dread pirate?
*plugs her nose*
(note: for those of you that don't know, Mr. Smith and I live near a salty, briny lake and we've had a lot of very windy storms.)
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posted
"For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die."
Yeah I know it is a random Bible quote, but it kept popping into my head while reading this discussion. Not telling you where it is found either. <Grin>
AJ
Maybe I just like the word peradventure.
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posted
Is that quotation differentiating betweena righteous man and a good man?
Seems so. That righteous doesn't automatically mean good (Pharisees) and good doesn't automatically mean righteous (Samaritans?)
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But I do like animals quite a lot, am raising a bunch of them, volunteer at a shelter, and do my best to intervene on their behalf when I see them abused or neglected.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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