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ACLU demands removal of cross from Los Angeles County seal AP News ^ | MAy 25,th 2004 | JOHN ANTCZAK
LOS ANGELES (AP) - The American Civil Liberties Union is demanding the removal of a tiny cross that is among historic symbols on Los Angeles County's official seal. The seal "prominently depicts a Latin cross, a sectarian religious symbol that represents the beliefs of one segment of the county's diverse population" and is an "impermissible endorsement of Christianity" by the county government, the ACLU Foundation of Southern California said in a letter to county officials this week. "Under clearly established law, the seal is unconstitutional," the letter said, warning that refusal to remove the cross in a "reasonable time-frame" would cause the ACLU to seek a court order.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Basically, I can GUARANTEE that if Civil Unions are adopted and officially recognized, the Bible will be removed from School Libraries (which is discrimination akin to Tom Sawyer type discrimination) because it will be "offensive" to it's Gay and Lesbian students. As will be the Quran, and any other religious book.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Under what reason would anyone wish to ban those books?
Because they are Anti-Gay? Many people don't believe they are. The new testament is also anti-jewish and anti-athiest, but it has not been removed yet.
It can be read as anti-women's rights, but the feminists aren't trying to get rid of it.
You are free to believe that homosexual acts are sins.
But what you are asking is that we deny fair treatment in economic matters to a percentage of our population on the unprovable and unsupportable fear that it may possibly lead to a discrimination of you and other religious believers at some unspecified future time.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote: But what you are asking is that we deny fair treatment in economic matters to a percentage of our population on the unprovable and unsupportable fear that it may possibly lead to a discrimination of you and other religious believers at some unspecified future time.
So the removal from Public Domain and the continued WAR against religion even down to ICONOGRAPHY displayed on Californian FLAGS just goes unnoticed by most here.
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When someone compares the request by a very liberal group for the removal of a "Christian Cross" from a public flag to the whole sale banning of all bibles if we elect a fairly moderate liberal, then I am more worried about a troll then about our lack of worry.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I wonder if CStroman realizes Deists don't believe in the Bible being a divinely inspired text at all.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:I wonder if CStroman realizes Deists don't believe in the Bible being a divinely inspired text at all.
I did, but it sounded like you just figured that out. Congrats! But what does that have to do with the discussion? Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I'm actually amused that there are any school libraries that would have the Bible. It has considerably more explicit sex and violence in it than many novels that are on the "banned book" lists. If it's in libraries anywhere, I'm sure it's simply because it got grandfathered in based on its perceived cultural importance.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Hm. I begin to suspect that you have not, in fact, read the Bible -- or, at the very least, did not understand what you were reading. It's a rather adult publication.
(BTW, if you're going to talk about seed-spilling, Onan's the classical example.)
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Actually I have read the entire Bible, even the boring "begat" Chapters.
I'm willing to bet you've never read the Bible all the way through.
And I'm fully aware of the "Adult" nature.
Please tell me, where does the "F" word appear in it?
How about the "C" word, or "V" word or "P" word that refers to female genitalia?
How about the "D" word, or "C" word or any other reference to Male Genitalia?
How about any of the negative connotations associated with sex?
Maybe you're reading the liberal bible (published by Hollywood) but I don't find those words ANYWHERE in the Bible in reference to what you are talking about.
You're losing this arguement rather rapidly.
Please, the Muslims try to tell me how XXX rated the Bible is all the time. They've failed, but maybe YOU can provide some missing verses that were really really hardcore.
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"I'm willing to bet you've never read the Bible all the way through."
How much are you willing to bet, my friend?
While we're at it, do Muslims REALLY try to convince you that the Bible is X-rated? Because -- speaking as a former Muslim, here -- that would be very silly; the Old Testament, which contains the most X-rated parts of the Bible, is in fact accepted as Islamic scripture.
Seriously, I find it interesting that you consider the presence of modern-day swear words and direct reference to genitalia to be the only way in which something can be explicit. You've clearly never seen someone's flock of goats. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:People who don't want religion in school, etc. are like the people who don't want Homosexuality taught in school either.
So are you saying we should teach religion AND homosexuality in school?
People have posted this Swedish preacher man story on here a lot to portray the slippery slope of a liberal society. What this is more indicitive of is an overly intrusive government making moral decisions for its population. Which can go either way depending on the sway of the government.
I think having a government not making judgement on those sorts of things is best.
quote:While we're at it, do Muslims REALLY try to convince you that the Bible is X-rated?
You claim to be a former Muslim? Sunni? Shia? or Wahabbist? I'm curious? Were you Muslim per Arabic past or were you a convert?
quote: Because -- speaking as a former Muslim, here -- that would be very silly; the Old Testament, which contains the most X-rated parts of the Bible, is in fact accepted as Islamic scripture.
Actually most of the Muslims I have talked to believe that the Bible, including the Talmud, are distorted.
For instance Lot. Muslims believe Lot was a Prophet of God (along with Ishmael and Alexander the Great (two horned one), etc.) In the Talmud (Old Testament) it says that Lot got drunk and his two young daughters went in and "raped" him basically.
All the Muslims I talked to don't believe that is true because:
1. Prophets don't drink alcohol (they don't believe any prophet did including Muhammed despite the Sahih Bukhari, Muslim, etc. that talk about him drinking Nabidh)
2. Prophets can't be tempted to do anything evil by Satan because as the Quran says they are protected and infalliable.
Pretty much the Muslims I have talked to consider Jews and Christians to be "People of the Book". They believe that the Psalms of David were inspired. They believe that the Talmud WAS inspired, but they believe the scriptures are all corrupt now.
They believe only the Quran is the perfect unchanged scripture (despite missing verses and making God a poor storyteller, but that's another debate).
That's one of the first things you see a Muslim bring up if they've read up on Dr. Jamal Badawi or Ahmed Deedat. Deedat specifically calls the Bible "Pornographic".
If you are interested in any of my studies on Islam, please ask. More than happy to share things I found myself no one thought of before. (not that I had seen at least}
quote:So are you saying we should teach religion AND homosexuality in school?
I don't think EITHER should be taught. If you allow Homosexual "groups" then you have no business or right to say Religious "groups" don't have equal rights to the same.
I personally believe NEITHER should be allowed.
But I don't think discriminating against one and accepting the other is right at all.
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