posted
PC mentioned that you show Corgis (Pembrokes?)...hence, my interest in Hatrack has increased a thousand fold. I was just wondering if you breed as well, or if you have connections with breeders. I am very interested in breeding and showing both Corgi's and Saint Bernards in the future, but we both agreed to stick with a Corgi at first. We were hoping for a Cardigan, but either one works for me.
Any other random information you might have would be appreciated, as well.
Posts: 79 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm not AJ, and have very little breeding knowledge, but I know that she has a male and female Cardigan Corgi, not sure if she is breeding right now. They are a really cool breed, gotta love the herders.
posted
Just saw this. Was away from the computer most of the weekend. Yes I do have and show Cardigan Welsh Corgis. www.corgipages.com is my website.
While I plan to in the future I currently have not ever bred a litter for a bunch of reasons including the fact that my female is not a Champion of the breed yet.
So this leads me to the big question: Why do you want to breed them? You see, normally people get a dog to enjoy it as a pet first and be a member of their family. A dog of breeding quality is considerably more expensive than a "pet quality" dog, (even if they are the same breed, you only want the best dogs of the breed to reproduce to avoid genetic defect) There's no guarantee even if you do get a dog that is "show quality" that it will be worthy to breed. (A show quality puppy can easily run you $1,000+)
You say you are interested in showing. Are you willing to make the financial commitment to showing a dog to its championship? (It runs into the thousands of dollars.) And then, if you have a female, that finally becomes a champion, do you realize how much stud fees cost, when you pick the most complimentary stud dog for your female to pass on the bloodlines to the next generation?
Are you willing to develop relationships with your dog's breeder, having them be a mentor and a friend, and listening to them to keep you from making a stupid breeding decision even if you heart is set on it? Are you willing to spend hours learning what the structural correctness is for the breed and what the correct angulation measurements are in shoulders and legs so that you don't breed unsound pets?
Breeding is about divorcing your emotions from the dogs you see in front of you. I haven't succeeded in doing this. (Another reason why I haven't bred a litter.)
So while corgis both Cardigan and Pembroke are wonderful dogs, when someone says I want to get them to breed, my caution flag goes up. People don't understand what they are getting into most of the time. Cardigan Corgis are one of the few breeds that haven't been overbred and as a result don't have many inherent genetic defects, though Progressive Retinal Atrophy is an issue.
For more specific information on Cardigan corgis, go to the CWCCA website at www.cardigancorgis.com
If you have any specific questions on raising and training them I'd be happy to answer but I'm not exactly sure what you are looking for at this point. Do you want to show in Breed or obedience? I have shown mine in both. Both of my dogs have their AKC CD obedience title and we are working on the CDX title. Currently my male is being campaigned by a handler(which is higher stakes than just ordinary hobby showing even if it is only a money drain it is about prestige.)
Part reason why I'm paying a handler to show the dogs, right now, is because I'm unable to get the vacation time for the three day weekends that many dog shows are, and can't do the travel commitments. Also at the campaigning level, a handler is much better for face and name recognition than me, who is basically a nobody in the breed even though the breeders behind my dogs are fairly well known.
posted
I won't talk much about my feelings regarding whether or not we should show dogs, but keedokes is well aware of all the things you mentioned, AJ. She has been around dog people for a long time, knows breeders and people who show dogs year-round. However, those people were Saint Bernard people. So, she was just curious about corgis, since I found them to be amusing animals and started showing an interest in getting one as a pet.
The picture I had of the corgis was me and him basking in the sun on a quiet sunday afternoon while keedokes is up to her elbows in Saints. I'm hesitant about all this breeding and showing garbage, really.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
First of all, like PC said, I am aware of everything you've mentioned. We were both leery about getting a Saint for our first dog, especially as we're going to have to stick to renting for awhile and landlords usually aren't too thrilled about having huge dogs about. A smaller dog would be preferable at first.
When I was re-watching the 2002 Westminster and PC saw the Cardigan Corgi, it immediately piqued his interest. As a result, I went out to do a little more research on the breed; to find out if it would be ok with young children, with obedience, and what general problems they face. I was really pleased with what I found.
Not only is the Corgi an adorable dog, he's also intellegent, gentle, active, and an all-round great animal.
I passed on what I found and we began to look for CWCCA approved breeders in or around Wisconsin. I've found a few in Minnesota and in Illinois, but am aware of a major obstacle breeders face: giving up their puppies to non-breed fanciers. I figured I'd have to get over that one myself...I had no connections whatsoever with the Corgi world, with anyone who could give me the good word. I understand that breeders are much more comforable giving away their pups to someone who someone else said that someone else told them would be the perfect person to make a home for their precious darling.
I know how it works. I could very feasibly get a Saint, but PC and I decided on a Corgi for our first dog...
So I am looking for connections. I want a health and temperment guaranteed, pedigreed puppy from a breeder that expects updates at Christmas. I'm looking for a better reason for a breeder to give us the time of day, much less that better pup.
If you can't help, thanks anyway, but next time reserve your Judgement (capital J intended) until you ask some questions or something before wasting your time with a lecture.
Posts: 79 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
That wasn't Judgment, that was an expert whose advice you sought listing the potential pitfalls of a plan you asked her to provide information on.
posted
Then I am sorry that I was unclear with my request. I will make myself more lucid in the future.
Posts: 79 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Regardless of the request, that wasn't judgment. She didn't say you were doing anything wrong.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, Dagonee, it was judgement. It was not clearly stated, but implied through condescending language. Banna, without asking first, declared keedokes unfit to even own a dog by stating facts that are obvious to anyone who has ever dealt with pure-bred dogs and even glanced at a dog book or magazine.
Seriously, all she had to do was ask, "Have you ever dealt with pure-bred animals?" That would have cleared things up before she launched into the dogma of canine. It's the party line, man. They all say it over and over and over.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Banna, without asking first, declared keedokes unfit to even own a dog
There's nothing in that post that even hints anyone is unfit to own a dog.
quote:Seriously, all she had to do was ask, "Have you ever dealt with pure-bred animals?" That would have cleared things up before she launched into the dogma of canine. It's the party line, man. They all say it over and over and over.
Of course, that wouldn't have given any information to the other people who might read the thread. It would have required an additional cycle of answer/response. And the fact that some of the information presented in the form of questions was already known doesn't make any of this judgment.
posted
Do you take everything literally, Dags? Must I speak clearly since your sarcasm/exageration meter is broken?
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Fine. There's nothing in there that hints, suggest, implies, or otherwise creates the impression that keedokes is or is not capable of taking care of and breeding show dogs.
posted
Ok, there is a difference here. Now that I've read kedoke's second post, before PC and Dag got into their discussion I feel much more comfortable.
The problem is that keedokes wording, while it was I'm sure entirely unintentional is exactly like those people who make inquiries wanting dogs to "breed" that are actually thinly disguised puppy mills. (I could show you emails from puppy mills that are nearly identical to her first post.) Mentioning such different breeds St. Bernards and Corgis together are exactly the sort of random shit a puppy mill would pull as well. I'm sorry I missinterpreted but I don't apologize for wanting to protect my chosen breed of dog from puppy mills.
If she'd said everything she'd said in the second post, especially the bit about considering the St's but understanding the size limitations and so forth in the first post I would have been on the right wavelength, because her reasoning would fall very closely with my own when I got into Cardis. However, with the little bit of information I had, I wasn't sure what to think and I freely admit it triggred all did my warning flags. (I said it did in my first post now that I've gone back and read it.)
Also, I did not remember that keedokes was PC's girlfriend and therefore actually in the Chicago Wisconsin area. I didn't realize the direct connection between keedokes and PC was IRL rather than random internet acquaintainces. I'm probably extroardinarily dense to have missed or forgotten that and I apologize. Having met PC once I know he's a good guy and he is "real" to me as well and it does make a difference.
Thirdly I am now confused on the "wanting a dog to breed" issue. It sounds more like you want a pet that you might be interested in getting into showing than anything else. "Wanting a dog to breed" isn't the correct "lingo" to use around dog breeders. That phrase alone makes dog people itchy and have nightmares. If you want a dog to get into showing in Breed that is a different story. "I'm a beginner in the breed looking for a show-quality dog to try my hand at showing" isn't saying quite the same thing, but close and it doesn't raise red flags. You see, "show-quality" dogs, don't come with the spay-neuter contracts that "pet-quality" dogs do so ability to breed the dog in the future is implicit, but never spoken about sort of an implicit "politeness" thing.
Fourthly, now that I better understand your motives and intentions, I would love to have you come to visit me (since I know you and PC are probably close enough) and actually meet my Cardigan Corgis up close and personal. Sadly the only person I know right now who had possible show puppies avialable just had a tragic accident, and lost two of the 7 puppies as well as the mother, so I think they may all be spoken for. But, I can give you the heads up if I hear of a promising breeding coming down the pike. The breeding season is kind of over for the moment though and most breedings will probably be next spring at this point so you may need to be patient as well.
Also, I'm not sure what is coming up as far as dog shows in Wisconsin at the moment, but if I hear any I'll let you know, so you can go and schmooze with breeders there. www.infodog.com is the website that has a good list of show information by state and where I get all of my info from.
Peace?
AJ
(Also as far as connections, if you do know some St. Bernard breeders, I'm sure most Corgi breeders would accept them as references as well.)
posted
Incidentally the male Special I have, Jake, Ch. Kingsbury's Copyright CD, I got from a breeder who took a chance on me. I freely admit I didn't pay my dues to the breed and work my way up from the bottom like I should have. I have a dog of a quality I don't actually deserve. However he is co-owned with his breeder which does give her a large amount of control over what can be done with him, even if he's lived with me as mine for the last four years. If you really want a top show prospect don't be surprised if a breeder asks for a co-ownership on your first dog. (Though if you already know this and I'm being redundant I apologise)
posted
*bump* I wasn't online last afternoon or evening which is why there was a long gap before I replied. Wish I could have done that before the bickering started.
posted
I think I was more confused with the back and forth with Dagonee than anything else. And I am sorry that my first post was worded weirdly. Like I said later on in the thread, I'll be more lucid in the future.
And I am aware that most litters are whelped and in their new homes by this time. We were actually more hoping for late spring. We'll have been settled in wherever we decide to live and be ready to get a new puppy by then.
I was thinking about co-owning, but I didn't know if we'd get into any form of showing with our first dog. Or if we did, if it would be worth it for a breeder. I don't know, guess I'd just have to get on the horn with some people and find out.
And we'd love to come down and see the dogs, I'm just not sure when we'll have time. PC works full time and I work every other weekend, and we're looking for a place to live and getting situated up here. So...dunno.
But I'll definitely keep in touch.
Posts: 79 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Any weekend is pretty much cool, other than the Hatrack campout weekend. But I'll need to make sure my dogs are actually here and not out showing somewhere. If you want an "event" to maybe target for there is actually a huge dog show at the Rosemont Convention Center around the 2nd week of December. If you wanted a place to crash for the weekend our house is always open and then you'd be able to see lots of Cardis besides mine.
I'll also let you know if we head up to Wisconsin.
posted
Yep, you better believe it. PC is taken, and if anyone tries any funny business they'll find themselves tracked down and kicked. Wherever they may hail from.
Posts: 79 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yeah well, you know maybe actually starting a thread announcing that you are married would help drive the point home, since PC seems to have done it in the dead of night in secrecy as far as Hatrack was concerned.
AJ
(Oh and while they aren't St. Bernards, my next door neighbor is a Berneese Mt. Dog breeder and I'm sure she'd let you play with them too.) AJ
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I was just wondering if you breed as well, or if you have connections with breeders. I am very interested in breeding and showing both Corgi's and Saint Bernards in the future, but we both agreed to stick with a Corgi at first. We were hoping for a Cardigan, but either one works for me. 
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
