quote: So you would support a referendum I might propose to change the word "God" in the pledge of allegiance to "Allah?" Since, after all, they're both "generic" references to a higher power?
Sure, but alot of "English Speaking" school members would have a problem learning all that. I do know they say "Dios" (spanish version) in the ESL schools I tutored in a few years ago.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
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The need for a code of behavior is undeniable. Suggested alternate from the Long Island Secular Humanists:
1. We shall not limit freedom of thought. 2. We shall not cause unnecessary harm to any living thing or the environment. 3. We shall be respectful of the rights of others. 4. We shall be honest. 5. We shall be responsible for our actions. 6. We shall be fair in all matters to all persons. 7. We shall be considerate of the happiness and well being of others. 8. We shall be reasonable in our actions. 9. We shall nurture these values by word & deed in our children, family, friends and acquaintances. 10. We shall not limit inquiring or testing by their consequences, on any matter, including these Commandments. .
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Sorry about the quotations. I used to CAPITALIZE points of emphasis, but that wasn't a good idea. I wen't to "quotations" instead.
I'm for the representation in all state houses that wish it, the history of law from Hammurabi, to Torah, to Beattitudes to Islam to whatever.
The history of our country is steeped (and still is) in religion.
The morals that based our country were founded on religious principles. The founding fathers were all spiritualists/deists/christians whatever and never intoned that the government should be devoid of it, just not endorsing any particular one. I don't think currently any particular faith is being endorsed.
However, we do pray at the convening of our national legislatures (which is again a tradition.) etc.
You're asking me to defend something that is a part of our country, heritage, tradition and history and was instituted through democratic means? Are you asking me to defend democracy?
If you feel it shouldn't be there, then put it to a vote.
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"You're asking me to defend something that is a part of our country, heritage, tradition and history and was instituted through democratic means? Are you asking me to defend democracy?"
No, Chad. He's asking you to defend a specific change to our national pledge of allegiance, made in the 1950s, that makes it impossible for Chris and millions of other people to pledge allegiance to our country as written without mentally inserting caveats.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:The difference between murder and attempted murder, I suppose?
That is murder, Tom. We're not talking about murder. Intent doesn't matter when it comes to the constitutionality of a given monument in a given public building or a given phrase on a dollar bill. If it doesn't restrict religious freedom, it doesn't violate the separation of church and state, regardless of what it is intended to do.
Posts: 2432 | Registered: Feb 2001
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"If it doesn't restrict religious freedom, it doesn't violate the separation of church and state, regardless of what it is intended to do."
So a bill which intends to restrict religious freedom, and which is written to restrict religious freedom, but which fails to restrict religious freedom only because religious people manage to heroically find loopholes that permit the normal expression of their faith within the letter of the new law, is something you'd be okay with?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I remember in elementary school, we would say the Pledge every morning. When everyone else would say, "one nation, under god", I would say, "one nation, of them all". I don't remember where I got that phrase from, but I said it every time, quietly, as to not cause confusion or make a scene.
I am not anti-religion. For the last three years of elementary school, I went to a private Jewish school. I prayed every morning, along with the rest of my class. And before every lunch. I had qualms about praying to a god I did not believe in. All the same, I did not abstain. I recognized the difference between a public school and a private school.
quote: Also, the term "God" is ambiguous as best. What it means to me will be different from what it means to a Jew as it will be different from what it means to a Muslim, to a Zoroastrian, to a Krishna worshipper as it will to a Buddhist or an Atheist or a secular scientist who believes "science" is God or the "Supreme Being".
I'm sorry, CStroman, but this is BS. Please, provide one example of an atheist or scientist who refers to science as "God".
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