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Author Topic: The DoEd Paid Columnist Thread (was Mods: who deleted...)
Dagonee
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This thread is now the replacement for sndrake's original thread on the DoEd paid columnist.

[ January 09, 2005, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]

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fugu13
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That's odd.
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sndrake
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Dag,

I did not delete the thread.

I can't find it either. I just got home from the office and saw this thread.

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Dagonee
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There was a swear word in one of the replies, but I've never seen that be the reason a whole thread gets deleted.

Weird.

Dagonee

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sndrake
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If someone deleted it, it sure wasn't me.

I'd like to know why - the last I checked, we were having a pretty decent discussion of a pretty significant issue.

I want to watch "Capital Gang" - they actually do some decent discussion on that show.

After the show, maybe I'll repost the stories with a similar title and see if it gets deleted - and then maybe get told why.

Very confused. Really.

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sndrake
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Of course, this thread could always be renamed to read something like "why did the DoEd thread get deleted?," but that is not within my power to do.

[Wink]

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Kama
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blow the whistle, ask the mods.
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Kayla
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What's the DoEd thread?
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aspectre
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The Department of Education paid off a neo"conservative" mouthpiece with taxpayer dollars.
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sndrake
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Here's the article, with what I believe are the same excerpts, that I originally posted:

Pundit's role in education 'propaganda' draws ire; column cut

quote:
WASHINGTON — Revelations that the Bush administration paid pundit Armstrong Williams $240,000 to promote its education policies to black audiences drew a quick rebuke from lawmakers on Capitol Hill yesterday and prompted Tribune Media Services to cut its ties with the syndicated commentator.

***

The Education Department yesterday defended its decision as a "permissible use of taxpayer funds under legal government contracting procedures." The point was to help parents, particularly in poor and minority communities, understand the benefits of No Child Left Behind (NCLB), the department said. The law, a centerpiece of President Bush's domestic agenda, aims to raise achievement among poor and minority children, with penalties for many schools that don't make progress.

The department's arrangement with Williams required him "to regularly comment on NCLB during the course of his broadcasts," and to interview Education Secretary Rod Paige for TV and radio spots that aired during the show in 2004.

The contract also shows that the Education Department, through the Ketchum public relations firm, arranged with Williams to use contacts with America's Black Forum, a group of black broadcast journalists, "to encourage the producers to periodically address" NCLB. He persuaded radio and TV personality Steve Harvey to invite Paige onto his show twice. Harvey's manager, Rushion McDonald, confirmed the appearances.

The administration's arrangement with Williams was first reported by USA TODAY based on documents obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request.

Williams yesterday called criticism of his relationship with the department "legitimate."

"It's a fine line," he told The Associated Press on Friday. "Even though I'm not a journalist — I'm a commentator — I feel I should be held to the media ethics standard. My judgment was not the best. I wouldn't do it again, and I learned from it."

I can't put a good interpretation on this. If Williams would have spent time and energy supporting these policies anyway, then it's a payoff to an administration supporter in the media. If he wouldn't have spent the time and energy promoting the policies, then it's a blatant attempt to influence media coverage by covert means.

At the very least, some people at DoE should lose their jobs over this. But I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen. Bush tolerates incompetence, mismanagement, and worse - but as long as they're "loyal," their jobs are safe.

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Kayla
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I was wondering if that topic had been posted, and even now, searching for Armstrong Williams, no child left behind, and department of education I can't find a single thread (deleted or otherwise) about the subject. Weird.

I liked this quote.

quote:
The GAO has twice ruled that the Bush administration's use of prepackaged videos to promote federal drug policy and a new Medicare law is "covert propaganda" because the videos do not make clear to the public that the government produced the promotional news.
For some reason, those rulings don't seem to stop the administration from continuing to do it. Covert does seem to the crucial word in the administraion.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=393847&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

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Dagonee
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Well, GAO rulings aren't really binding on the President, especially when there's enough tiny factual differences between each episode to plausibly make the case that the situation hasn't been covered before.

Dagonee
*And before I get jumped on, I HATE the fact that taxpayer money is being spent on such things.

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Alcon
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Ack! If it got deleted becuase of the swear word, then its my fault [Frown] I'm sorry.

But I've seen a lot of other threads with swear words in them, and people didn't mind that much if they weren't shot at a particular person... So what the heck?

[ January 08, 2005, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: Alcon ]

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Dagonee
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That's why I don't think it was that. Unless someone just made a mistake deleting your post, and accidently deleted the thread. It could happen, and is understandable, but I'd like to know before I rewrite my last long post on the subject.

Dagonee

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Kayla
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Oh, I'm not saying they are, however, usually, most governments try to give at least the illusion of integrity. The moral turpitude of this administration just really irks me. Of course, it irked me with the last one, too, so. I still think if Al Gore had listened to me, he could have won in 2000.
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sndrake
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I'd really like to hear something about the deletion from the mods. It's remotely possible that something happened on my end (although I can't for the life of me figure out what I could do to delete a thread unintentionally), and I'd believe it if they said that was the case.

It would, of course, give me another puzzle to solve.

If the thread was deleted by the mods, I would like to know the reason. I really can't think of any reason it would be found objectionable, let alone being deleted for content.

It's kinda bugging me.

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Dagonee
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Yeah. If one swear word is enough, I'll keep that in mind when posting in the future to threads that have one. If it was an accident, it would make me feel better.

I can't imagine the language being used to criticize the administration was the reason.

Dagonee

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Sara Sasse
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Well, obviously, the DoEd deleted it. Duh.

*covert-conspiracy ninja smilie

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Chris Bridges
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The thread never happened. You were mistaken. It was actually a reflection of the dogstar, Sirius. A common misconception in government threads.

Please, go about your business.

[ January 09, 2005, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]

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WheatPuppet
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See this device, this is called a neurolizer. Now, if you'll please look into this little red eye...

*dons neurolizer-proof glasses* [Cool]

Flash

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Alcon
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I'm not messin' with you Kay, you ever flashy thinged me?

No.

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sndrake
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quote:
The thread never happened. You were mistaken. It was actually a reflection of the dogstar, Sirius. A common misconception in government threads.
[No No]

Won't work for me, Chris. And that goes for the one waving the neurolizer around too.

I created the thread, and I'll remember it even if everyone else forgets. Sheesh.

Watched the news shows this morning and Bob Schieffer on Face the Nation closed his show with a rant about the situation. Like me, he suggested that Bush should be firing those at the Dept. of Ed. responsible for this. He also expressed disgust that no one at the White House would comment on it, directing all questions to the Department of Education. I once watched an interview with Schieffer in which he came across as a fairly conservative guy - certainly not a "liberal."

The discussed it a little on "Meet the Press" today and Al Hunt was a guest. Turns out he works out in the same gym as Armstrong Williams. He smiled, but said that Williams certainly was on the job at the gym, urging Hunt to cover the "No Child Left Behind Act" more than once.

Hunt also predicted a flood of FOIA requests, since there's a strong possibility Willimams isn't the only commentator on the govt. payroll.

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Kwea
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Possibly becasue that is what it is....PR for that bill?

[Big Grin]

Still seems like a huge waste of money, but does anyone know is it worked at all?

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Dagonee
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It wasn't "laundered," it was subcontracted. The way most things to an individual consultant are in the government.

It's just the nature of government subcontracting.

Dagonee

[ January 09, 2005, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]

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kacard
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no clue what happened to the thread -- never saw it.
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Icarus
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hey kacard

[Smile]

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sndrake
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Dag,

the term "laundered" was used today on "Meet the Press.":

Link to Jan 9 Transcript

(Panel: Tim Russert with Al Hunt, Bloomberg News, Katty Kay, British Broadcasting Corporation, Andrea Mitchell, NBC News, Byron York, National Review)

quote:
MR. RUSSERT: Let me turn back home. This was a jolting issue in USA Today newspaper on Friday, that, "Seeking to build support among black families for its education reform law, the Bush administration paid a prominent black pundit $240,000 to promote the law on his nationally syndicated television show and to urge other black journalists to do the same. The campaign...required commentator Armstrong Williams `to regularly comment on NCLB [No Child Left Behind] during the course of his broadcasts,' and to interview Education Secretary Rod Paige for TV and radio spots that aired during the show in 2004."

Senators led by Democratic leader Harry Reid have written the president, Albert Hunt, to say that Mr. Williams should give the money back, that this was a violation against the law of blatant government propaganda.

MR. HUNT: Well, I don't know what the law is. It strikes me that it's not a very good use of taxpayers' money. It's certainly as egregious a journalist violation as one could engage in. Mr. Williams' column was yanked, as it should be. I will say this. Armstrong did deliver his promise, because I occasionally worked out at a gym and Armstrong's there, and he told me several times, you know, "Why don't you write about No Child Left Behind." I don't know if I'm going to be on one of those government expense accounts or not but...

MR. RUSSERT: How many columns did you do?

MR. HUNT: I didn't do any. So I let him down. I'm sorry, Armstrong. Listen, I'll tell you this. I'll bet that there will be a great market for FOIR, Freedom of Information Requests, in the next couple weeks because I suspect Armstrong Williams is not alone. There have been other people who've been doing this.

MS. MITCHELL: In fact, the Census Bureau has done this. The Department of Health and Human Services has done this in the past on Medicare and other issues. So they have gone to not just to journalists, but they have put out fake news releases...

MR. RUSSERT: Video news releases.

MS. MITCHELL: ...video news releases that are misleading to the average person who believes that they are news reports. And I think that the lines are so blurred. We have to also take a step back and ask, you know, "When did the lines become confusing to people, between what a real journalist is and commentary, analysis or political figures being used as commentators?" I mean, that's really the issue because with all due respect to Mr. Williams, he didn't rise through the normal track of journalism and...

MR. RUSSERT: Byron York, how do we do this? How do people know the difference between journalists, commentators, pundit, who's on the take from the government and who is not? This is very confusing.

MR. YORK: Well--but actually the core issue is really very simple, which is disclosure. You've always got to disclose. And, of course, if Armstrong Williams had done that, it would have destroyed his credibility as it did when he came out. But, you know, The New York Times actually quoted the head of Medialink which is the company that does a lot of these video news releases, saying, you know, "The Clinton administration did more of this." This is something that's been going on for quite a while. And you can argue back and forth whether it's an appropriate expenditure of taxpayer funds, but the key question with the video news releases is you've got to know in the actual product, in this story, this was something produced and paid for by the government. If they do that, that's fine. And if Armstrong Williams had said that ahead of time, then we would have viewed him as a PR man, but on the other hand, it wouldn't have been a scandal.

MR. RUSSERT: These are pseudonews releases where you have a fake journalist sitting there interviewing a Cabinet secretary and materials are sent out across the country. What serious or legitimate news organization would ever air something like that?

MR. YORK: Well, obviously, the networks don't do it, but they are aired on smaller stations or on very small cable outlets. So some of the stuff is just kind of yanked off the satellite and put on the air. So given that that happens, that's why a disclosure is so important.

MR. RUSSERT: Katty.

MS. KAY: And one of these apparently aired on about 200 cable channels. So a lot of people are seeing this, and understandably, after Mr. Williams' story, people are going to look at what they see on television and ask themselves, "How do I know that this reporter isn't being paid either by a government organization or by a business organization?" And that confusion is understandable, particularly since there has been an erosion of the lines of what is clear, objective news reporting.

We've seen the encroachment of entertainment into that field and also the encroachment of business and government interests paying for time in that field, and there does have to be a clarity here. The audiences need to know: Am I getting news, which is objective fact, which is being reported, or am I getting advertising or propaganda, which is being paid for by a government interest or a business interest, or am I getting entertainment, somebody's opinion? And it's not always very clear, and it should be clearer.

MR. YORK: You know, No Child Left Behind--a lot of conservatives hated it; a lot of Democrats hated it. The only way you could get somebody to say something nice about it is pay them $240,000.

MR. HUNT: Well, and they did it, of course, in a very sneaky way. It was funneled through a PR firm, Ketchum PR firm, so they knew exactly what they...

MS. MITCHELL: It was laundered.

MR. HUNT: Yeah. They knew exactly what they were doing. I want to go to Katty's point, because I think it's a very good one. I think the danger for people in our business is we better think carefully about exactly what we're doing. I think there ought to be full disclosure of people of any kind of outside income and--otherwise, I think our business is really going to suffer a tremendous erosion of credibility.

MS. MITCHELL: Well, we've already lost a lot of credibility. This has not exactly been a good couple of years...

MR. HUNT: It's not.

MS. MITCHELL: ...for either print or television credibility.

MR. HUNT: It has not.



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Kama
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hey Icky
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sndrake
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kacard:

quote:
no clue what happened to the thread -- never saw it.
I was thinking that was probably the case. Usually, it's pretty easy to figure out why - on those fairly rare occasions - threads get deleted by mods.

The good news is that the forum still makes as much sense as it ever did to me. [Smile]

The bad news is that there is probably something strange going on in the wiring of my computer or my brain.

Something new, I mean. [Razz]

[ January 09, 2005, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: sndrake ]

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Dagonee
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quote:
the term "laundered" was used today on "Meet the Press.":
This is one area that I have EXTENSIVE real world experience in. Whenever the government wants to hire a particular person for a particular task, and that person doesn't work for a contractor, a subcontract is used. There is absolutely nothing suspicious about this, nor is it an attempt to "launder" money. These pundits either don't understand government contracting or they are deliberately misleading people.

Frankly, the fact that this went through a PR firm makes it a lot more task-related contracting vehicle than many I've seen in the past.

As I said in the now deleted thread, my problem with this is that the government should not be spending money to convince people that a particular government program is good for them or the country. If the government needs to get the word out about how to take advantage of a program, that's one thing. But such information does not need to be disseminated this way. Even if they felt the need to hire someone with more credibility among African-Americans, there would be no need to hide the fact that the information comes from DoEd.

The "subterfuge" was in the presentation of the information, not in the payment process. And the subterfuge makes it clear to me that the intent was not to inform but to gain approval for the program. Frankly, I don't want taxpayer money used for that. Ever.

There's an entirely separate ethical question relating to the columnist's behavior. He was presenting his opinion without telling people it had been paid for. Had the money come from a private source, this would still be unethical.

Dagonee

[ January 09, 2005, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]

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Dagonee
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quote:
no clue what happened to the thread -- never saw it.
Thanks for the response. I didn't think you guys had killed it, but wanted to be sure.

Dagonee

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Hobbes
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You know how some cultures offer up virgins to their Gods on a regular basis to keep them happy? We should do that here on Hatrack with threads. Take a thread that hasn't been disspoiled by contention or derailed and sacrifice it to the Gods of ... I don't know, whatever.

Boy I must be short on sleep.

Hobbes [Smile]

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Dagonee
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They hired a PR guy through that firm. Happens all the time.

I've got no links to back me up, but I swear that there is nothing unusual or inherently suspicious about hiring a particular PR guy through a PR firm with an existing contract.

The real reason for suspicion was that the government hired someone to act on their behalf, and that person didn't let people know that's what he was doing. To the extent the government desired or requested this behavior, it acted very badly. The form of contract is irrelevant.

Dagonee

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Dagonee
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DoEd hired the PR firm. The PR firm hired the columnist. At least I think so. This is very common, where a contractor hires a consultant to do very specialized work.

And yes, it is common even for PR firms to hire other PR firms. For example, a PR firm specializing in government work (there are legitimate reasons for this) will hire a PR firm that specializes in connecting with a particular subgroup, or on a particular topic.

We were a small (25-30 person) IT consulting firm hired by most of the big gov't IT firms at one point or another as subs on big contracts. Sometimes we were subs in name only - the agency wanted us, and used a larger vehicle to hire us. Perfectly legitimate - large contracts have to pass through a fairly large percentage to small firms.

Strange but true.

Edit: There are three major reasons why the little firm gets hired by the big firm on a government contract:

1.) The agency really wants the little firm, usually through pre-existing working relationships. The big firm gets a cut off the top, fulfills part of its small business quota, and makes a customer happy. The little firm gets a contracting vehicle. The agency gets the contractor they want with less paperwork.

2.) The little firm has a particular piece of expertise or technology that fills a niche on the contract requirements. Large solicitations contain thousands of requirements, all of which require prior experience. Many times even a large firm such as EDS won't have in-house experience. The little firm fills the gap for them.

3.) The little firm is known to be good, and the big firm needs to fill their small business quota. This is pure convenience on both parts.

Dagonee

[ January 09, 2005, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]

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