posted
The thing about wearing guns openly in public is that for every situation you encounter where you'd need a gun, there are probably two in which the gun can be taken from you by someone who already has one or would not be able to get one by legal means. *shrug*
I think that someone paranoid enough to carry a gun into a shopping mall or restaurant would be more likely to use it unnecessarily.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I think it's just as impolite as walking around in public carrying your own pint of chocolate ice cream. If you aren't willing to share, leave it at home!
Posts: 383 | Registered: Nov 2003
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I think I'm gonna be the "This American Life" guy. This is a really fun episode concerning Guns. Listen for the Sarah Vowell story. I swear I'm gonna marry her.
Posts: 894 | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
I own guns, I don't carry, But I have no problem with people who do.
I love hearing people tell about how they always warn other parents about the pressence of guns in their house. I love hearing it because everytime I do, I think to myself, "around here it's always assumed."
When I take people shooting that have never fired a gun before, i always make it a point to load the gun, and while holding it, ask them if the gun is dangerous. I then set the gun down, and ask them if it's still dangerous. They usually reply no. I ask them what has changed, and they say something to the effect of, "your not holding it." I then correct them, I'm the dangerous one, not the gun. The gun can lay on the ground for days, and as long as nobody touches it, it is perfectly safe.
I think that the line between americans who like guns and those who don't, is drawn between those who see them as a tool, and those who see them as dooms-day weapon. Guns are tools, no diffrent than a hammer, if their used properly, then they are perfectly safe, but when they are used improperly, people get hurt, or worse. If you mis-use a hammer, your thumb may hurt, if you mis-use a wrench, you might bust a knuckle, if you mis-use a drill you may have a new hole. Bottom line, it all lies in how the fire-arm is used.
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Mrs. M, how much danger is there of having your own gun used against you? I think that's my biggest concern about having a gun around. I would imagine that you'd have to be able to draw it fast and be willing to use it fairly preemptively (possibly before all other choices are exhausted) if you wanted to retain control of it in some situations.
And taking out a gun would up the ante, IMO. Someone who wasn't planning to hurt you seriously might change their mind if they saw a gun.
I'm not trying to argue, I'm just bringing up my main concerns. I imagine stuff like this gets covered in gun training sessions and I'm wondering what the reasoning is.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote: i always make it a point to load the gun, and while holding it, ask them if the gun is dangerous. I then set the gun down, and ask them if it's still dangerous.
Hm. I think you're teaching them the wrong lesson, here. In all my gun safety courses, they were very clear on the fact that a loaded gun is always dangerous, regardless of who's holding it, or even if it's beind held.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Since guns and children have been mentioned, I wanted to ask a question. What is the tactful way when your children are visiting a friend's house to ask about guns in the home? I feel kind of weird just coming out and going, "Umm...do you have guns? And if so, please explain the measures you take to ensure safety." Know what I mean?
posted
advice for robots, there is very little chance that my own gun would ever be used against me. Mainly because I would never let an assailant get close enough to me to reach my gun. I practice drills like backing up while pulling my gun. I also practice things like ejecting the magazine while my instructor is trying (succeessfully) to disarm me. Please note that the magazine and chamber are empty during this drill. The next step is to practice ejecting the magazine and pulling back the slide during a struggle. Pulling back the slide ejects the bullet that is in the chamber. Also, if you are involved in a struggle over a gun, get your finger behind the trigger so that it cannot be pulled.
Space Opera, it's perfectly polite to ask people straight out if they have weapons in their house. I would never be offended if someone asked me that. Of course, I make it a point to inform everyone with children who are visiting my house that we do have a gun.
quote:I think that someone paranoid enough to carry a gun into a shopping mall or restaurant would be more likely to use it unnecessarily.
Do you mean carry openly? Because I always take my gun to the mall with me - it's one of the places where women are most victimized. Particularly my local mall.
Also, there are 20 registered sex offenders in my zip code, which is pretty tiny. Tell me again how safe I am unarmed.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
The right to self-defense is fundamental. It should not require a permit. So in states where concealed carry requires a permit, I would carry a gun openly. Besides, it is not so much that I do not trust the people I am with, it is that I do not trust the people who might show up uninvited.
Well, I would carry openly if I owned a gun. I engage in activities where there is a presumption of guilt, and the risks of ownership are too high to justify the potential benefits.
Posts: 1364 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
It's interesting. Please, take in mind that I live in a country where only criminals, the police or the army can carry guns. It's becoming increasingly difficult for a civilian to lawfully acquire a gun, in Brazil. So, such discussions always atract me, because I can se how different people think in a country, like USA, where people may own guns freely.
Anyway, here's something that happened with my uncle (mom's brother). He used to carry a gun, when he was younger. He had a permit (it was easier, then). He learned how to shoot when he was a soldier. But then, when some guys forced him to exit his car and stole it, he never thought about pulling out his gun. He was afraid the criminals would shoot him. He told me he, then, realized that (for him) carrying a gun would be a burden, rather than a boon. He does not have a gun anymore (as if he could).
Posts: 1785 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I'm not more scared by the thought of Danzig with a weapon than I am by the thought of anyone on mood-altering medication with a weapon.
For all that I disapprove of Danzig's "hobby," he takes it more seriously than many stamp collectors I know take their stamps -- to the point that I sometimes even wonder if he does drugs out of a sense of duty rather than any desire for "fun."
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Because of my mood difficulties, I will never own a gun. For my safety and everyone else's. You make a good point, Tom.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I have to agree with stryker, around here, almost every house I was in before high school had a gun over the door, or a cabinet that you know that's what it contained in the front room. My dad taught me to shoot when I was eight, I've never hunted, and he hasn't in my life, but I know how, and if i were living alone, in a city, I could possibly see myself taking Mrs. M's route and getting a permit to carry one. (The visual of your gun in your designer purse makes me smile).
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I am planning on getting a concealed carry permit.
I don't plan on carrying concealed on anything like a regular basis, because I am scatter-brained enough to not want to have to deal a firearm on a regular basis.
I do, however, want to have the ability to carry concealed should the need ever arise.
I hope that I get my permit and never once derive any utility out of it.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
In order for the mall to be a place like that, 2 things would need to change:
1) The mall would need to become a much more dangerous place for a 6'3" 220 lb. man. 2) For some reason, I would be willing to risk my life (and other's) for whatever reason I have to be at the mall.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I never carry my gun if I'm going to be altered in any way. I won't use it even if I've taken cold medicine.
Something I tell people over and over again: just because you have seen hundreds of people using guns on television and in the movies doesn't mean you know how to use one. It's so rare for guns to be used properly or safely in movies or shows, even law enforcement shows. For example, law enforcement officers are trained to keep their fingers OFF the trigger until they are ready to fire. Law and Order: SVU is very good about this, but on almost every other show you see cops chasing suspects with their fingers right on the trigger.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Tom - If they were not fun, instead of typing about them I would either quit, or be typing about my horrible addiction that had destroyed my life. Why pay good money for something you do not enjoy? Abstaining hurts no one, so how could I have a duty to use?
I can agree with prohibiting violent felons from owning firearms, and even see (though not accept) the rationale for doing the same to nonviolent but drug offenders. What I really want to know is the justification for prohibiting white-collar felons from owning a gun. They are no more likely than anyone else to commit murder, and everyone has a right to self-defense. Once they have paid their fine, served their term, completed their community service, etc., their "debt to society" has been paid. Even for violent offenses, if they are such a threat, why not keep them locked up? A dangerous person can find other unregulated methods to kill.
Posts: 1364 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I never carry my gun if I'm going to be altered in any way. I won't use it even if I've taken cold medicine.
Something I tell people over and over again: just because you have seen hundreds of people using guns on television and in the movies doesn't mean you know how to use one. It's so rare for guns to be used properly or safely in movies or shows, even law enforcement shows. For example, law enforcement officers are trained to keep their fingers OFF the trigger until they are ready to fire. Law and Order: SVU is very good about this, but on almost every other show you see cops chasing suspects with their fingers right on the trigger.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I don't really like guns because I see the damage they can do more than I can see the good that they could do. That is just because of my job and because I don't know much about guns and noone in my family owns guns so far as I know. But I have looked around a gun store a couple of times. It was fascinating. The owner there packs two guns and has a third one under the cash register. He also said he had a winter gun and a summer gun. I never understood that part.
One time he was talking to me about women and how they should carry guns in their purses for safety (assuming they weren't going to use a holster) and he commented that he had a bunch of little old lady customers that had to use the semi-automatic kind because their arthritis was too bad for them to use a revolver properly. I hope I'm using the right words here. The idea of arthritic little old ladies with semi-automatics in their purses, well, I found that rather scary. I'm just not used to thinking that the ladies at the mall are packing guns, much less the old arthritic ones who just got talked into buying their first gun.
Not that I mind that people as well trained as Mrs. M are packing.
Posts: 1990 | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
That is another reason I have no plans to own a gun. It would take far too much practice before I would feel comfortable using it to defend myself, especially if there were innocents around. Intellectually I would understand that an accident would not be a moral black mark, but viscerally I would have problems if I missed and hit someone else.
Posts: 1364 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Theca, that's very understandable. I think that most of the results of gun violence you see were not caused by well-trained, law-abiding concealed carry permit holders.
You are using the terminology correctly, btw. Revolvers are harder to operate than semi-automatics. Revolvers do not have safeties, semi-automatics do. However, I would not be comfortable with an arthritic old lady operating any kind of gun - I would be afraid she would spasm and hit a bystander. Permits are generally good for 5 years, at which time you are required to complete a firearms training course and reapply. Hopefully, people with medical problems that prevent them from safely operating a gun will fail to pass the courses and be unable to obtain a permit.
The winter/summer thing is a new one on me. My gun is a gun for all seasons, especially since guns are very, very expensive.
Gun ownership is a right, but when you choose to exercise that right, you must assume a great deal of responsibility for doing so safely.
Danzig, that's sensible. The training is a pleasure for me, though. I love target shooting - it's a great sport.
quote: the thought of anyone on mood-altering medication with a weapon.
Or folks not on one who perhaps should be. But yeah, anti-depressants can have unexpected effects sometimes. That is definitely on the side of things I'd like to see better regulated.
Is it too out of line to suggest that people who have been divorced or separated in the last year should go on the waiting period list?
Posts: 383 | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
I think so. Treating people as second-class citizens because they are divorced is not a path we want to travel down.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Well, I had someone threaten to shoot me tonight...all over a pool game.
Funny part about it was that I wasn't the person playing him.
I was at a place near my house, sort of a pool hall/bar place. I use to be in the local pool league there with Jenni and some friends. I am well known there, and as far as I know no one there really has any big problem with me there, and I have never been in a fight there with anyone or anything. I don't even drink anymore...I tried to order a drink last year and the bartender thought I was joking.
So I am there talking to my friends who are still in the league. I wasn't being loud...sometimes I am, and don;t even know it....I was actually whispering into a friends ear. I wasn't talking crap, or coaching..but if I had been it would have been legal, as it wasn't his turn at the table....to be honest I wasn't talking about the opponent at all.
This guy gets pissed because he is drunk, and tells me I have to leave. Now had I been loud, or if he had asked me nice, I probably would have gotten up and moved away for a while, but he was rude....
Then he threatened me with his pool cue. I couldn't believe it, I knew him, although not well, and had never even said hi to him before. He almost took a swing, but I just told him that I wasn't moving, and that he should just play pool and not worry about me. I was getting pissed, and I am sick of jackasses like him pushing people around.
He made a huge stink about it, even though I was not anywhere near him or the pool table. He threatened me 4 times with his cue, and threatened me with a beating when I went outside.
Then he told someone he was going to shoot me.
And left.
THIS is why I am not sure everyone being able to own a gun is a good thing. I can deal with his threats to my body, but I can't stop a bullet with my hands.
Funny part of it is that I could drop him from over 300 yards if I used the gun I am most familiar with, but I wouldn't.
And if he attacked me and died, he wouldn't be the first. I was mugged while in the Army, and left for dead.
So while I will never allow myself to be a victim again, I still don't own a gun. I turned down a job with the state police years ago when I first got out of the Army, because I didn't ever want to take another life again, for as long as I live. I will, if need be, but I will never carry a gun for protection because it is too dangerous....and too tempting for me, with the temper I have. I can justify defending myself, but not putting myself in harms was deliberately, armed and dangerous.
I may own a gun....probably a rifle or three....in the future, but I can't abide handguns personally. Had I been armed the night I was jumped, all three of them would have died rather than just one of them, and I would have been in jail for murder.
posted
"Why pay good money for something you do not enjoy?"
That's an excellent question, Danzig. But people do it all the time, perhaps because they don't consciously realize that they're doing it.
In fact, I think a lot of hobbies are partcipated in out of "duty" or a desire for "completeness," and not necessarily enjoyment.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:I love hearing people tell about how they always warn other parents about the pressence of guns in their house. I love hearing it because everytime I do, I think to myself, "around here it's always assumed."
I live in the south where hunting is the sport most participated in, higher than baseball, softball, golf or tennis.
It's pretty much assumed here too, but out of respect for other parents, I try not to assume. They deserve the courtesy of my informing them, and not making them ask. Or, if they wouldn't have asked because they assumed it, then maybe I'll make them think about it, and they'll ask next time their kids are somewhere with people who don't take gun safety seriously.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Quick question for all those who are comfortable with the idea of people carrying openly in a holster.
If it's legal to carry openly, is it legal to carry a handgun openly in your hand? And if so, how would you feel if people were just wandering around, handgun in hand, so to speak?
Posts: 2245 | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Around here (Utah), you can get in trouble for brandishing a weapon just for holding it in your hand.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
For a person to have a gun doesn't disturb me in and of itself; it depends on the motive.
My stepfather and several other members of the family like to hunt. They have rifles and shotguns. Doesn't bother me in the least.
On the other hand, one of the managers at Cracker Barrel is a survivalist gun nut--the sort of person who's just itching to become part of the Tribulation Force. I never, ever, want to meet him when he's carrying. Friendly as he is, he makes me nervous, despite apparently knowing what he's doing.
Posts: 1114 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
As I understand the American Constitution, the right to bear arms is intended to give citizens a final veto over government action, as well as making for an effective militia defense. The latter function, presumably, is performed by the National Guard. But the former : Just how are people with hunting rifles supposed to stand against a modern tank brigade? Back in the day when two popgun cannon was the heavy equipment for a whole regiment it made sense to give every man a musket for defense against the government. But now? Short of the army mutinying, the government has an effective monopoly on violence.
So, how much more does this apply to handguns? A rifle does at least have a range such that you can ambush a government unit and stand a chance of getting out alive.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Yeah, but if it came to a point where a significant number of the population decided to duke it out with the army, you can bet they wouldn't be doing it on open plains. It'd be urban combat and you can bet it wouldn't be an easy task. The more citizenry that got killed, the more would rise up in defence.
quote: Just how are people with hunting rifles supposed to stand against a modern tank brigade? Back in the day when two popgun cannon was the heavy equipment for a whole regiment it made sense to give every man a musket for defense against the government. But now? Short of the army mutinying, the government has an effective monopoly on violence.
I believe that the gun doesn't mean revolt necessarily against the government, but it is a not too subtle reminder that the people in the US do wield power as well. If anything, the armed populace may someday serve as a deterent to a coup here.
Americans probably will never go to the streets to overthrow their government, because it is a government we have all made together -- for better or worse. On the other hand, should our government ever be overthrown by an external or internal force... well, the change would not last long.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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