posted
For those of you in the know, I have a couple of questions about this.
First of all, during platelet donation, you are given a drug that helps in harvesting the platelets. It also has the effect of leaching out the calcium in your blood. So you get to eat TUMS every once in a while. You determine yourself if you need it. Numb lips, slight tingly feeling in the legs is a symptom.
But what I noticed was that my jaw muscles cramped as soon as I took the TUMs, like sweet things do sometimes. I had thought that I remembered somewhere saying that this had to do with a calcium deficiency or something. It all seemed to make sense.
Forward to now. A few weeks ago I had a cramp in my entire leg that woke me up. It was excruciatingly painful. I knew this to be a symptom of Potassium deficiency. I was pretty much wide awake, so I went downstairs and ate a potato. For the days previous to this, though, I'd been having those same jaw cramps with some foods. So I'd make sure to take extra calcium.
It was only after my sudden awareness of not having enough potassium in my diet, at least during pregnancy, and fixing that, that those little cramps in my jaw went away. I never had the leg cramp again, thank goodness.
There is the setup. Here are the questions:
What is causing the jaw cramps? Lack of potassium or calcium?
How transitory is Potassium and Calcium in our system?
How much do we need floating around, and how do we lose it?
Why does the lack of one of those minerals cause muscle cramps?
Why, when I've never really had the problem before, am I now finding it difficult to keep up those levels*? How much is baby needing? More than an adult? The calcium, I'm pretty sure, is something baby needs a lot more of since he is laying down bone right now. But what about Potassium? How would a deficiency affect him?
*I decided quite a bit before I was pregnant to basically cut out daily consumption of juice (let alone pop). I figured I could get my hydration from water, so why spend the calories in my beverage. But then I discovered that 100% juice can be a great source of potassium. I didn't have the problems I'm reporting now until within the last month or so.
Whew... lot of questions, I know.
Thanks to anyone with an answer. It isn't so much a worry with me, as I know how to resolve the problem. But it is an "I'm curious about how my body works" kind of question.
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posted
Well, personally I take This daily for my calcium and potassium, because without it I get leg cramps.
I hear some people have trouble assorbing calcium from their foods. I think I'm one like that. I think orange juice is supposed to help with that -- that is why you see some orange juice sold with calcium added (because I hate milk -- don't drink it straight).
But as far as how much you actually need, according to body weight, etc. and how much you have in your system -- I guess you'd have to ask your doctor those questions. I mean, a CBC would show whether or not you are deficient in those areas.
posted
Bananas are also an excellent source of potassium. I'm allergic to them and they give me migraines, so I eat mushrooms as my main source of potassium.
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posted
The reason I think Potassium is fairly transitory in the system is because I've never seen more than about 3% of the daily intake in supplements. Calcium is somewhat similar in that most calcium supplements I've seen suggest taking one or two pills three times over the day, and that equals around or a little above the RDA.
It occurs to me that taking 100% of your daily potassium at once could be harmful or something. Or maybe just useless. Maybe our body can only absorb so much at one time.
Which is why I think it is fairly transitory in the blood.
edit: I am eating a banana even as we speak, actually. Potatoes are a better source, I understand, though. And we didn't have bananas.
Interesting to note: 100% juice is a better source of potassium than gatorade or any sports drink.
posted
Amka, are you nursing? babies will suck the calcium right out of your bones if you don't have enough. Do you eat chocolate or drink caffeinated beverages? Caffeine leeches out calcium as well. On the numb lips thing. When I had plasmapheresis, which I could have because of donors like you(thank you), my lips got numb, they fed me Tums, and also wanted me to drink a milkshake as I was having the procedure.
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posted
It's not going to hurt you to get it all at once; my daughter will only drink formula (which she needs to make sure she's getting her nutrition as a supplement to breastfeeding) if it's mixed with bananas. So she eats about 1 1/2 bananas a day, which is a lot when you weigh about 16 lbs. What I do have to watch for, though, is that she gets enough sodium in her diet from other sources (I don't add salt or anything, just make sure that her other foods have a higher ratio of sodium to potassium, which is not hard to do) so her electrolytes don't get out of balance-- which can send you into shock. (Interestingly enough, potassium can't be absorbed without a little sodium; you don't retain it unless it's bonded to sodium or something.) Anyway, point of story: I get the leg cramps from lack of calcium, and fixing taht usually fixes them from me; the jaw thing is a completely unrelated thing about the salivary glands for me, but it might not be for you.
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posted
Elizabeth, I'm pregnant. And I know how much the calcium gets leeched out, especially at this point in time when the fetus is converting cartelage to bone.
This is my fourth baby, and I had never had a leg cramp like that before. I have been more careful about calcium intake than with any of my other pregnancies.
I rarely drink caffeinnated beverages. It has been weeks since the last time I did. Same with pop. I made some chocolate chip cookies last week, and had a few chocolate chips with peanut butter last week as well. A little bit more chocolate in weeks previous.
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posted
I just want to mention that it is not uncommon to get leg cramps during pregnancy, and that it may not necessarily have to do with calcium or potassium deficiencies or inbalances.
quote:Leg cramps affect almost half of all pregnant women.1 The cause of leg cramps during pregnancy is not fully known, but they may be caused by reduced levels of calcium in the blood or increased levels of phosphorus. Leg cramps are more common in the second and third trimesters of pregnancy and happen most often at night.
There is no evidence to support the belief that increasing your intake of calcium will prevent leg cramps.
posted
Amka, I was thinking about you the other morning and wondering how soon the baby was coming. When are you due?
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Potassium and Sodium are balancing agents. On a holistic level, Potassium "goes with" sweets and insulin response (anabolic processes) whereas sodium "goes with" protein, stress hormones, and catabolic processes. On reason we have an instinctive desire for sweets is because prior to industrial refinement, sweet foods provided potassium.
Moderating intake of high salt items might be good- if you can do it. I know asking a pregnant mom to change the way she feels like eating is very touchy ground. Have you been having a lot of pickles or processed meats or prepared soups? These things will increase your bodies use of water, which will tend to "wash away" your other minerals in the process (like calcium).
Anyway, every cell maintains it's fluid pressure using a "sodium pump" which exchanges sodium molecules for potassium molecules. Sodium and potassium are very linked to water retention.
I'm not sure why there isn't more potassium supplementation available. I guess if you are eating your 7-9 fruits and veggies a day, it shouldn't be an issue.
P.S. In emergency situations (leg cramps in the middle of the night) my husband takes tonic with quinine. I'm not at all sure whether something that works with such extreme suddenness is "good for the baby".
quote:What is causing the jaw cramps? Lack of potassium or calcium?
I don't think I really understand exactly what's going on, but I'm inclined to say neither. There is little to no absorption that goes on in a healthy mouth. Do you have sensitive teeth? Gum disease?
quote:How transitory is Potassium and Calcium in our system?
Transitory? Levels remain more or less the same at all times. 98% of your potassium is locked up inside cells and >99% of your calcium is crammed into your bones.
quote:How much do we need floating around, and how do we lose it?
You need enough floating around It's a dodgy way to answer the question, but it depends on your age, activity level, gender, etc. A broad range would be 3.5-5 meq/L of potassium and 4.3-5.3 meq/L of calcium.
While the kidneys are specifically designed to allow potassium and calcium to re-enter the blood stream after it gets filtered out in a healthy adult (assuming blood levels aren't already too high) it's not possible for 100% of the filtered ions to be retrieved. You'll always be excreting trace amounts and, if you don't ingest enough to replace what's lost levels will continually drop.
quote:Why does the lack of one of those minerals cause muscle cramps?
Lack of potassium doesn't cause muscle cramps per se. What happens is that as your extra cellular levels of potassium decrease the electrical charge of the cell membrane becomes more negative. This means it takes a stronger stimulus for the cell to fire a signal, the physical sensation of which is muscle fatigue and is actually the exact opposite of what causes muscle cramps. It is, however, still very important for muscle health. An increase in potassium levels leads to potentially life threatening hyper sensitization and muscle cramping. It may be that keeping the muscles in a state of fatigue causes them to cramp “in protest”, but I admit I don't know for sure.
If plasma levels of calcium drop nerve cells become more permeable to sodium to compensate for the loss, which simultaneously causes them to become hyper sensitised and leads to many of the same problems as potassium increase (tetany, irregular heart beats, cramping, etc.)
quote:Why, when I've never really had the problem before, am I now finding it difficult to keep up those levels*? How much is baby needing? More than an adult? The calcium, I'm pretty sure, is something baby needs a lot more of since he is laying down bone right now. But what about Potassium? How would a deficiency affect him?
Man, women are complicated. And pregnant women even more so. You guys have your own courses devoted solely to you and, well, I've never taken any. As a general rule you just ignore pregnant women completely and slap a "Do not take if pregnant label" on any and every product you enter into the market Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Of course, "restless legs", which is what you're complaining about, is a different beast than the cramping you'd get from calcium or potassium deficiencies. These symptoms probably wouldn't be localized to your calf during the night.
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What I'm calling jaw cramps is that painful cramping sensation right below and forward of your ear, where your jaw hinges. You get it sometimes when you eat sweets.
As I said before, I detected a correlation with that and when I was undergoing epherisis. It abated some very shortly after taking the TUMS calcium. I assumed it was lack of calcium at the time.
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posted
The cramping pretty much involved my entire leg, but was mostly in the back of my thigh. The calf was only noticable as I was trying to stretch my leg to get rid of it.
You don't have to convince me that pregnant women are more complicated. But do you really think women in general are all that more complicated than men, physiologically speaking. Or is it that we demand more health care and attention for our problems?
Far more men get prostate cancer than women get breast cancer, but there is much more awareness of and research into breast cancer than prostate cancer. I understand that men can undergo a kind of menopause as well.
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posted
Also, if you have a sweet craving try having fruit before sweets. Again, I know you gotta eat what you can eat, but empty calories in many cases steal nutrients from the body in order to be processed.
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posted
On the men and women thing- enrolling a woman in a research study who may become pregnant at any point is the sort of thing they don't want to deal with. So a surprising number of studies are done only on men. Also, some of the early studies involving RDA were conscienscious objectors to the Draft in WWII. Menonnites, I believe. These were all men because that is who was being drafted.
quote:There is no evidence to support the belief that increasing your intake of calcium will prevent leg cramps
Well, WebMD may think there is no evidence, but all I can say if that if I DON'T take my calcium for a period of time, I get them. If I DO take my calcium, then I don't get them. That's all the evidence I personally need.
posted
FG, that remark was specifically directed at pregnant women and leg cramps. Pregnanat women are a special case due to all the things going on physiological while the baby is growing.
[ February 03, 2005, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Ela ]
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posted
I cook with little salt and let people add to their taste. I do not like dill pickles much. I keep a bag of veggies in our fridge to snack on and a bowl of fruit.
Processed meats and prepared soups may be our worst offender for sodium, but they are by far not a staple in our diet.
We keep a low fat diet. No potato chips, except at parties. Baked tortilla chips, eaten with lots of salsa.
Our junk food typically consists of dried fruit and nutty things. Husband's favorite snack is smoked salmon on bread. I don't like it, so I take fish oil supplements instead.
I have never really actually had a craving while pregnant, except perhaps sour things when I'm nauseous. And tomatoes in any form. But I always love tomatoes.
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posted
I love that advice that says "eat anything you crave, except for soap or dirt." Yes, there is some condition where pregnant women get craving soap or dirt. Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I think the compulsion to eat dirt is sign of a mineral deficiency- we don't tend to see it as much in cultures where women are well-fed.
Anyway, this is very interesting! I had a pretty bad , er, gluteal cramp last night, but a long soak helped.
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I've been trying to compartmentalize what I want to say without avoiding the answers to your questions:
But let me say a few specific things...
1. Tonic water with quinine was a favorite for frequent big drinkers because of the fluid hydration and quinine, which can help leg cramps. However, quinine is also severely toxic to the heart and is not recommended to be used regularly and should be absolutely AVOIDED during pregnancy.
2. The info I want to give concerning calcium and potassium therapy are generalized for a healthy adult with normal kidney function. Amka, because you are pregnant, all of this information is just academic, because you should refer to your obstetrician concerning calcium and potassium therapy during pregancy.
3. Lastly, the question was raised as to why potassium supplements are not more widely used or available. There is a very good reason. TOO MUCH potassium is actually more toxic than a potassium deficiency. An excess of potassium leads to cardiac arrythmias and even myocardial infarction (heart attack).
Now here are some of the answers to some of the questions:
1. Sodium and Calcium ions are responsible for nerve transmission (firing repeatedly) as BTL described above. Think of an electric wire that must propagate an electric signal, and this is how sodium and calcium channels with muscle tissue depolarize and repolarize repeatedly to allow these signals to be transmitted. If we repeatedly flex or contract a muscle, it eventually fatigues, and then reaches a point of "tetanus".
Now to be very basic and general, sodium channels are most prevalent in "fast" contracting muscles (a bicep, for example) and calcium channels are most prevalent in "slow" muscles, especially smooth muscle that is controlled by the autonomic nervous system (cardiac muscle or smooth muscles of the digestive tract)...
So the crux of the problem of being deficient in either calcium or potassium can result in a muscle fatiguing more easily and more quickly, and thereby reaching a state of tetanus sooner than normal, which to us feels like a very bad cramp.
So is it a lack of calcium or potassium causing your jaw to cramp? I do not know, it depends on whether it is "fast" skeletal muscle that is cramping, or if it is musculature controlled by the slower calcium channels that is the culprit...
How much do we need? In a healthy adult with no history of kidney disease:
Calcium: 1500-2000MG per day in divided doses. Women are most likely to be taking calcium to treat or prevent osteoporosis. Look for calcium carbonate, such as that found as "oyster shell" calcium, Tums, Os-Cal, or Caltrate to name a few examples. Calcium should almost always be taken as Calcium with Vitamin D, unless your doctor does not specifically recommend Vitamin D. But the vast majority of men and women in the US are deficient in Vitamin D anyway...
A good regimen of Calcium would be Calcium with D 500MG 2 or 3 times a day.
Warning: Calcium can be constipating.
Potassium is a mixed bag. I do not recommend potassium over the counter, unless it is used with caution and only sparingly. I strongly caution each patient to let their doctor know they are self-medicating with potassium, just so that other therapies and medications do not interfere with potassium therapy.
Potassium is expressed two ways: In milligrams (OTC versions) and in milliequivalents (mEq-RX versions). The OTC versions are as high as 595mg (8mEq) and presciption versions are as high as 1500MG (20mEq).
Now, a healthy adult with no history of heart disease could take as much as one 595mg tablet up to 3 times a day if needed.
There are too many ways to lose calcium and or potassium to list, but your pregnancy is definitely one reason that your calcium levels might be low. Interestingly, prenatal vitamins do not contain any potassium at all.
The best way to find out your electrolyte levels is to have blood work done. Your sodium and magnesium levels should be a part of this labwork.
Amka, I am not sure how to advise you to treat your lockjaw, but I would definitely keep your physician in the loop!
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posted
Amka, the jaw thing when eating certain foods, for me, has to do with the salivary glands. Ask your doctor about that, and if that could be it.
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