posted
I missed a lot of the Baldar fracas... and, in the parts of it I saw, he seemed merely to be giving as he got.
I look at this thread and see Dagonee being taken to task for being less than perfectly patient with a group of people that walked in and shat all over his (and my) altar.
Are we going there again? Do you people enjoy making enemies out of emissaries from the opposite camp? is this what exemplefies open-minded compassion to you people?
I'm sorry, I really dislike the dramatic goodbye thread, but I can't stick around and watch this garbage.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
No, it's not how Baldar came to be. Unlike you, Jim, I was there for that one, and I assure you that Baldar pretty much came out swinging. Jeff Kizer sprung full-grown from his own head.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I don't even know why I bother... Nothing will change anyway when it comes to this issue. Nothing in the world will change at all. I don't mean to disrespect people's religions and beliefs, but, still... I got to find a way to fight against prejudice towards gay people without angering tons of people.... I'm sorry...
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Jim-me, I very much appreciate outrage on my behalf, but it's a very, very small minority of Hatrack that did anything wrong in that thread. I think many people who might have commented on the actual issue simply turned around and left as soon as they saw the name calling. Some of the criticism of me wasn't unwarranted, even if I disagree with some of the specifics.
Hatrack would be a lesser place if you left, especially over this.
posted
Hey, Jim - Leaving in anger, especially with an exit thread, is usually pretty lame. With maybe one exception, most everyone who has ostentatiously left in a huff has returned to Hatrack either feeling sheepish or righteously indignant, daring people to ask why they've returned. I usually feel bad for them and make another note to myself that, should I ever feel the need to skip out on Hatrack permanently, quiet and without fanfare is the way to go.
At any rate, the reason you're on Hatrack to begin with isn't because you thought everyone respected your beliefs and would articulate that pleasantly all the time. That's just silly and idealistic. It's because MOST people here will respect your beliefs and you've established relationships with those people and like them enough to put up with the other crap. At some point the crap may outweight the good stuff, and then that's when it's time to cut the cord. But you can't determine that when you're pissed off, because all you can see is your current anger. I'd give myself a bit, step back, let it cool. Think about the positives and the negatives, and try really hard to be objective.
Even though I'm not posting much anymore, I lurk quite a bit and it would be a shame to lose the pleasure of reading your posts.
btw - Baldar was a bastard from the beginning. He didn't need any excuses or prodding.
Posts: 7600 | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Dagonee is not very similar to Baldar. Dagonee is usually polite, and never intentionally malicious. In my opinion, which I freely admit I would have trouble backing up via objective facts to him or others, he is a bit overzealous in defending his faith... but that is reactive, not proactive, and still not even close to what Baldar did without provocation. Nor is it any worse than many other members defend their own faiths or pet issues. To my knowledge Dagonee has never belittled another member. Also, he tends to make an effort to understand opposing viewpoints, which Baldar rarely did.
Of course, I do not think Baldar should have been banned either, but I do not own the forum.
Jim, leave if you wish, but I see no reason to.
Posts: 1364 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I'm hoping that's an auto-response whenever I post something with two or more paragraphs. I'm going to test that someday by posting, "Oooh... I love sexy hot men and their sexy hot manliness!!!!" a hundred times and see what happens. (With paragraph breaks, of course.)
posted
That thread was offensive. What I saw there was not a "discussion of the faults of the Catholic Church," and so did not deserve to be responded to on that level. I was frankly surprised by some of the people posting anti-Catholic, anti-pope gibes. It was not discussion; it was insult. It was shameful, and it stuns me that it is apparently tolerable here.
I certainly did not see Dagonee do anything wrong.
TAK, you've been on the verge of leaving for some time now, it seems to me, and just looking for something to get you good and pissed enough. I really like what Ralphie said. Hatrack is so much more than the threads that tick you off. But if Hatrack brings you more anger than enjoyment, I can understand leaving it. I'll be sorry to see you go, of course, and look forward to your return.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote: At any rate, the reason you're on Hatrack to begin with isn't because you thought everyone respected your beliefs and would articulate that pleasantly all the time. That's just silly and idealistic. It's because MOST people here will respect your beliefs and you've established relationships with those people and like them enough to put up with the other crap. At some point the crap may outweight the good stuff, and then that's when it's time to cut the cord. But you can't determine that when you're pissed off, because all you can see is your current anger. I'd give myself a bit, step back, let it cool. Think about the positives and the negatives, and try really hard to be objective.
Like ten posts came in while I was typing mine, but that's what I was referring to.
The very idea that Dagonee is "overzealous" in defending his faith . . . ::shakes head::
posted
I'm curious Jay, did you delete the thread or did the mods delete it. I went to look at what was happening and while I was reading page 1, the thread was deleted and I could no longer read page 2.
If you did delete the thread, I think it was a wise move. Most of us have some topics, or "hot botton" topics, which are so important to us that it is hard to remain rational. When these topics arise, it is not uncommon for people to perceive attacks on their position as ad hominem attacks and respond in kind. While this emotional response can lead to escalation and complete collapse of civil discourse. When that happens its best to move on.
This wasn't what happened with Baldar. Every discussion he was in eventually devolved into a name calling session. This went on for a very long time and he was warned by the mods repeatedly before he was banned.
[ February 22, 2005, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
It's not usually the mods' style to delete threads where the first post is not deliberately offensive. More typically, they would lock it, with a few choice words for the people who got out of hand.
On the other hand, I'm not sure deleting that thread is in character for Jay either.
posted
Not so much in that thread as in others, and I said I doubted I could prove it objectively. It is just my opinion, I could be wrong, and right or wrong no one is claiming he should stop. If everyone was laid back about everything Hatrack would be a lot more boring.
Posts: 1364 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I don't know what everyone's talking about, but I'd just like to throw in my two bits about Jim-Me. If you leave, there'll be no one to back me up when I rave about Rush and Yes albums. 'Twould be a dismal place 'round here if you're gone.
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
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quote: It's not usually the mods' style to delete threads where the first post is not deliberately offensive. More typically, they would lock it, with a few choice words for the people who got out of hand.
I don't know that I've seen many locked threads. I can't remember the last time I've seen a locked thread. On the other hand, it seems like we get threads deleted pretty frequently.
In this case, of course, it's not clear who did it, but if the mods did do it, I would personally like to put in my two cents that locked threads with comments = good, deleted threads with nothing said = not so good. Usual private property, theirs to do with, yada yada yada. Fortunately, I still get to have an opinion, whether the mods want to pay attention to it or not.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Jim, you know you sent a timely e-mail the other day that cheered me up when I was I little depressed. I would hate to see you leave. Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
...I have no idea what any of you are talking about. I'm so out of the loop, I can't even see the loop. I have no idea that the loop even exists. If I saw a sign that had an arrow pointing in a direction that said "loop" above it, I would have no idea what it was talking about.
Posts: 2258 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Jim, I hope that you don;t leave, but it is your choice. I didn't see the thread...or rather I did, but never clicked on it, for some obvious reasons.....but keep in mind that there are people who don't value the same things you do here, so they might not have realized that what you were saying was serious, or that their comments would strike you so personally.
As far as Dag goes, he is very vigorous defending his faith...but I can't see ANY resemblence between him and Baldar, not even a little bit. He would start off trying to be rude, and would end up just plain insulting....
Every single time.
He stared with me once, and I wasn't even commenting on any of his points. He was just a royal pinhead, not because his views were different than mine, but because he never respected anyone elses right to make up their own mind.
quote: On the other hand, I'm not sure deleting that thread is in character for Jay either.
Um... Not to pick on Jay, he's really shaped up and become a member of the community, but...
In this case, though, I think judicious removal was a good move, whoever did it. Jay, if you deleted that thread, thank you. It was getting uglier by the minute.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Excerpting, from an e-mail, something I think I should say here as well:
I'm not bailing on hatrack permanently, but I have a lot of cooling off to do as the behavior in that thread was, IMO, not only deplorable, but a perfect, if extreme, example of a trend that has kept me mostly out of serious threads for about a year now. Not that I'm suggesting something "needs to be done" about it... I just need to get some distance and had a need to express my level of outrage. I apologize for all the ways I may have been inappropriate about doing so.
posted
Oh, I remember Baldar. It's a slander to Dag to even compare him to Baldar. Baldar's the only person that I've begged to have banned. I personally blame him for Hatrack's lowered tolerance of morons - he took advantage of the board's niceness far too much. We are warier now. There a hundred trolls that come and go and think they affect the forum, but I think Baldar and maybe Ced are the only ones for whom that is true. Neither was positive.
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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