Just wondering if any of you had heard about this...
This sort of thing makes me very sad for many reasons.
Mostly though it brings to mind my distaste for the whole deal with prodigies.
I have felt for quite some time that being a prodigy or other type of child star is pretty awful.
Take Mozart for example...while a lot of people know about how young he was when he began composing, the truth of the matter is that his age was the only thing that made any of his early compositions remarkable. If it weren't for the genius of the works when he reaches his full maturity, he would just be another in a long line of prodigies...mostly forgotten.
It seems to me that most of these young "geniuses" end up being little more than freak-show material as far as the public is concerned.
Anyway, I can only guess what must have gone through this young man's mind, but whatever it was, his remarkable intelligence didn't keep him from ending his life, and that sucks. Posts: 194 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
This is only a guess, but I wonder if someone like this begins to despair when they feel like their "time is running out".
When your whole life has been built around being a genius as a child, when you grow out of physical childhood it might be sort of like what some people feel when they reach retirement...a sense of uselessness. Who knows though...
Posts: 194 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Did he honestly feel like his candle was flickering out?
Was he somehow less intelligent than he was the day before? The year before?
No, he might not have been special anymore in the "ooh, aah...look at the baby reading" sense, but his mind had the capacity to explore the universe in a way I can only envy.
Maybe it's not enough to be brilliant - perhaps you need direction and motivation as well.
Frankly, I would have enjoyed tying him to a desk with a calculator, pencil and paper and watching what he could do for the space program.
posted
I think you may have hit on it Trevor. Many kids who are even moderately smart feel like an outcast...and at his commencemnet, well:
quote:At age 10, he became the youngest graduate of his high school and he delivered a commencement speech, saying he was so unusual he practically "qualified for the endangered species list."
there's definitely a loneliness that would go with a statement like that.
That is, indeed, very sad.
I wonder about Ryoko's comments on prodigies in general, though... especially the recent entertainment ones I can think of.
A couple of local ones (Lee Anne Rimes and Jessica Simpson) *seem* to be doing all right for themselves, though I think they aren't nearly as capable as their early talents might have made them seem.
I know Kenny Wayne Sheppard is still a respected musician, though not at all as huge as everyone thought he'd be.
I haven't heard much from Charlotte Church lately, but from recent pictures she has become a beautiful woman, for what that is worth.
Anna Paquin is a solid actress, but doesn't seem destined to repeat as an oscar winner. I guess it's too early to tell much about Haley Joel Osment...
LeBron James, however, seems to be headed for superstardom.
maybe there is something to that idea?
The closest thing to a prodigy I have personally known (a friend who skipped 8th grade and was in my senior AP Calculus class as a 9th Grader) took nearly as long as I did to finally finish his undergrad degree (9 years for him, 10 for me) but is now an Orthopedic Surgeon and doing very well in all aspects of life. <shrug>
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Seems like it applied in that case though...
BTW< Charlotte Church is doing quite well, still, and still recording music. He CD's are stil selling very, very well, although not as well as her first did.
posted
At first I thought you were talking about one of the guys that did "Firestarter" and "Smack My B**ch Up". Now I have to go listen to Fat of the Land again out of relief.
"I'm a firestarter, twisted firestarter...."
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Well, I often wonder about the difference in emotional maturity compared to intellectual genius. Does it correlate? I can't think how it can. You have this child going through the throes of puberty, who is able to see connections in the universe that most adults can't even fathom. That must be very hard.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Hmm, I survived being a local "prodigy". Though not quite on the accelerated scale that kid was, I wasn't all that far behind either. In many ways I was more "adult" at age 14 than I am now. I learned in the mean time that it is ok to be childlike about somethings as long as you aren't childish. I'm sure I took life far more seriously back then, not realizing its penchant for the rediculous.
However, overall I'm enjoying being normal much more than I did being a prodigy. A lot fewer expectations on me now, particularly from my parents. Though I had to briefly explain my life history over the phone today, and I wondered if the person on the other end thought I was a megalomaniac. I wouldn't believe my own history, and would think the person was making it up, if I hadn't lived it.
posted
I don't think it has anything to do with what happened, but I am reminded of a recoccuring theme that keeps showing up in Vernor Vinge's novels -- the more intelligent a society or being is, the faster it changes, and thus the sooner it dies.
Posts: 1002 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I was really bothered by this article. I know I am not a part of the situation, but reading the article made me feel icky.
quote: "Sometimes we wonder if maybe the physical, earthly world didn't offer him enough challenges and he felt it was time to move on and do something great," his mother, Patricia, said from the family home in Venango, Neb., a few miles from the Colorado border.
Note the mother is still focusing on his talents. She seems to be reveling in her son's dead reflected glory instead of focusing on his emotional needs or the pure tragedy of his forsaken life. How messed up is it to think he killed himself because he progresses as far as the world had to offer? That is the height of arrogance, disconnection, and emotional un-support.
quote: We felt he could hear people's needs and desires and their cries. We just felt like something touched him that day and he knew he had to leave
It sounds like they put pressure on him instead of offering support. I know the parents could be in denial, but I always think of People of the Lie when I see parents who do not grieve over their children and use their children's talents or misfortune to meet their own emotional needs.
I feel like sticky emotional goo has oozed over me from the parent's "rationalization."
NOTE: I recognize People of the Lie is a pop-psych book, but interesting points are addressed by Dr. Peck.
posted
Here's an edifying question--How many students competing at international academic levels (Intel/Westinghouse winners, Math/Physics/Computing/etc. Olympiads, etc.) have been skipped more than 1-2 grade levels?
Answer: Almost none.
I've read about plenty of these "prodigies" who are skipped through 8 grade levels, usually to satisfy parents who care more about living vicariously through their kids than about the welfare of their children. They graduate from high school at 10, 11 years of age...but with no better an education than the average 17-18 year old they graduate with.
In contrast, plenty of kids graduate at the top of their class and top of their field as 16-18 year olds, and are relatively well adjusted socially. I was one of them.
It's really sad when things like this happen, but not surprising. No matter how brilliant a kid is, he/she needs social interaction with people the same age, or you get...this.
lem's exactly right--that reaction from the mother was the first thing that really hit me. Such a waste.
Posts: 170 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
You can add me to those who thought the mom's quoted remarks were a bit odd.
And the thing that struck me about this kid is that even if he was extremely brilliant, I don't get the advantage of having him go to college at 10. There is no way he could have been emotionally and psychologically ready, even if he could handle the work.
Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
I was thinking about this the other day. My daughter is pretty smart. Maybe not prodigy level, but she is definitely way ahead of the average 3-year-old when it comes to talking, reading, writing, counting, and drawing. I have a feeling there's going to be pressure to get her involved in one gifted program after another and accelerate her through classes and all that.
I'm not sure I want to. I have a feeling it would cost her her childhood to some extent. She is welcome to learn and develop all she wants, and we'll certainly support and encourage her, but I don't want to end up carting her all over the state just to show her off. She can join what she's interested in, but I'm not going to push her or let anyone else push her into all those programs and contests they have for the smart kids. I have a feeling that's where the early burnout comes from.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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When my daughter was 2, my pediatrician suggested I get her tested to see if she was gifted. My feeling was why would I bother, for a 2-year-old? I was not going to do anything different with the information. I would still have given her the same stimulation and opportunities to learn that both my kids had anyway. I certainly would never have used any of the so-called "baby enrichment" programs of the type that I saw a cousin of mine using with her daughter.
In fact, I never had my daughter specifically tested for a gifted program until she expressed interest in participating in a writing tutorial program that was offered by a college, and by that time she was in middle school.
Many parents make themselves too crazy and push kids too hard to excel. Kids need time to play, dream, and to just be kids.
Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
This child was probably as lonely as he could possibly be. He probably realized that there wasn't anyone around who could really understand the strain that his life was placing on him. Even prodigies have to work to learn and gain experience. Even though he was giving shows to people and performing and accomplishing a ton of stuff, the important, intimate social experiences were probably not available to him. And if they were, he probably felt so awkward around regular people that he couldn't reach out at actually touch other people. Nor could he let them reach out and touch him. There is a cold isolation inherent in extreme intelligence. There's also the undeniable exterior drive to excel. I wonder if this kid actually WANTED to graduate college before being able to drive.
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
WELL said, afr. I believe that some parents are indeed selfish individuals who could care less about the welfare of their child as long as they are famous--I've worked enough in theatre to know the "stage mom" stereotype isn't pure fiction.
But this isn't the norm. Instead, most parents truly care about their children, but when faced with children who are incredibly intelligent, don't know what to do. Parenting is a learn-as-you-go occupation, and some are better at OTJ training than others.
I think the primary motivation for advancing children through school faster than they can develop emotionally is that parents are truly worried that their bright kids are in danger of boredom. These well-meaning parents therefore develop the conclusion that the need for intellectual challenge in the classroom surpasses the need to mature at a normal pace.
Posts: 786 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Ryuko, you may be right. I'm nowhere near the level this guy was at, mind you, but I experienced something very like what you describe somewhat later, after having to leave college. I can imagine someone like that, expecially if he was socially isolated, feeling the way I felt or worse. Perhaps he came across some obstacle that seemed impassable, with his limited experience, and had no one to help him over it.
Posts: 1114 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
This is a very sad story. All such stories are heartbreaking. Turns out, "Brandenn" was just an unhappy teenager. Looks like he didn't even have any siblings. The worst thing is, no one saw, no one even guessed that anything was even slightly wrong.
I can't even imagine what it must have been like to live like that.
Also:
Someone mentioned Mozart, saying that if he hadn't been great as an adult he would have been forgotten. I think that this is true, but I wanted to point out that Mozart died fairly young. He didn't die as early, he didn't (as far as I know) attempt suicide, but he did die early.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I completely agree about not over-pushing kids to excel before they're ready, but to elaborate on the flip side of that, I also think it can be a really good thing to get kids tested and skip them ahead in school, if they're emotionally okay with it. There can be huge problems like this, yes, if it's a ten-year gap between classmates but over one or two years, I don't think it actually makes that much difference socially, especially if it's done early so the child can grow up adjusted to that. (Of course my opinion may be slightly biased based on what I've seen).
I also was reading competently at 2 or 3 years old and always a year or three ahead of my class in most subjects as a child, and quite often *extremely* bored in class. I was skipped from Kindergarten into Grade 2, and the school wanted to skip me another year later (around grade 5 or 6 I think), which my parents refused to do, worrying about my not fitting in socially and so forth. (They never told me this until much later). To be honest, I think I would have been happy if they had let me. It can be extremely frustrating for children to be prevented from learning what they're capable of. Some teachers would give me more challenging work, but others refused. I don't think fear of boredom and associated concerns are minimally important reasons for wanting to put your child ahead at all. For one thing, emotional maturation can be mildly affected if education is sped up too much, yes, but lack of intellectual challenge by keeping them behind can also affect academic maturation. If they are never challenged and never have to work to ace a class until university, they may have an *extremely* hard time learning how to push and motivate themselves. Suddenly having to work to do well at school for the first time in 12 or 13 years can deliver impressive psychological blows to self-esteem and can be extremely difficult to start that late in life. I know I've had a whole lot of problems with some of this. It might seem like a ridiculous complaint, but is it any more ridiculous than people, say, having problems making friends in a city when they've been homeschooled without any frequent access to social interaction their whole life?
That said, yes, one must be sure they're socially mature enough to fit in with kids a couple years older as well, but I think kids that will get along well socially in their own grade are also likely to get along socially in a higher grade or two, and that that is more dependent on the child's personality than the age difference. Smart kids are often isolated and teased, but that happens just as much when they're with their own age group, in my opinion.
So as for prodigies getting pushed into college at 10, I'm not sure what I think. Certainly depends on the kid. But as for skipping 'gifted' kids ahead a year or two if they're ready, I see absolutely no problems with it, so long as the child agrees to the push. Intellectual skills need sufficient challenge to be developed, just as social skills need sufficient time.
(I apparently had no problems learning to be overly verbose, however... )
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