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Taalcon, we believe in the Trinity there is one God, in three persons - father, son, Holy spirit.
As to the other: Galatians 3:29 - If you are in Christ, you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The covenant theologian believes there is only one elect - one people of God, made up of all who believe in Christ. The covenant promises to the people of God in the old Testament are fulfilled in the church.
Those who believe in Christ become heirs to the promises made to Abraham. Remember that Paul makes it clear in his epistles that it's more than physical descendancy that makes one an heir to the promise. In Roman's chapter nine he says "But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel."
Because the "true Israel" who inherit the promises is not made up of every physical descendant of Israel. Paul argues this from the Old Testament itself. He concludes in verse 8: "This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring." In other words, God is not bound by physical descent or flesh when determining who his "children of promise" are.
In other words, it's not as if God decided not to fulfill his promise and replaced the children of Israel with the church. The covenant theologian believes the children of God are more than just a physical nation, and the promise applies to all of God's elect, not just those of a specific line of descent.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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It has been a while since I heard a good version of this (and my quickie Google check didn't show anything) but aren't most Biblical scholars pretty sure that Revelations wasn't intended to predict the future but was more useful as a tool to spread the Christian ministry around under the noses of those in power. By layering on the myth, lore, and gaudy excesses (dare I say it...a "code", if you will) of this book the folks writing and reading it could safely discuss what was current events without getting smacked down as Christians in need of being eaten by a Lion.
Or something like that.
Why didn't Jesus talk about the coming of his...er...anti-version?
posted
Telp, it depends on the denomination as to what type of schooling is required.
Many denominations have seminaries, and my understanding of the Presbyterian Church of America is that one must be a graduate of an approved with at least a master's of divinity and serve a one year internship before you can be qualified to serve as a minister.
I don't know enough about other denominations to say.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:The covenant theologian believes there is only one elect - one people of God, made up of all who believe in Christ.
I take it you mean 'excercises faith in Christ' instead of just Believe. Because, "the devils also believe, and tremble."
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Everything else you said I personally agree with nearly completely. I believe that those who choose to enter into and accept the Covenant with God become heirs - those who don't, aren't. All covenants are made with the caveat that one keeps his part of the bargain.
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I guess I still can't grasp the Trinitarian concept of One God making a Covenant with another person/manifestation of His Own Being that is not Not His Being. I'm honestly trying to understand how people view this to work. When I was Trinitarian, I didn't really think about it much. When I did, it made my brain hurt, so I decided not to think about it too much, sort of Pavlovian. But now, I'm really trying to understand (and I know this is a topic big enough for another thread). I read the explanations in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and they made my brain physically hurt again. But now, I guess, I'm more of a masochist - I'll keep pushing until I can at least fully understand the other point of view.
***please understand that this I'm not at all trying to Bash any theology - I know how sensitive you are to this, and I'm honestly trying to understand the other understanding. Yours is the first I heard of Trinitarians claiming that there was an event where The Father made a covenant with The Son before the world was created. I don't see how this works with my understanding of Trinitarianism.***
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To clear up, my view is that "I understand, but I disagree" is much more respectful, and useful, than "I don't understand, but I still disagree."
At this point, I'd like to understand so I don't have to fall into the latter camp. I've done that way too much in my life.
Posts: 2689 | Registered: Apr 2000
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"Most Biblical Scholars" who believe the interpretation that Revelations is "time sensitive" to the First Century are very liberal Christian. As a person who doesn't like to judge who is or is not Christian, it is hard for me to believe those "Biblical Scholars" are anything other than marginal Christians by faith. However, using "Most Biblical Scholars" as a definition of anything is fairly nebuleous. There are just too many KINDS of Biblical Scholarship -- from "Jesus Seminar Secularists" to Evangilical Charismatics.
quote:My mother in law gave me a book where the people swore they were doing scholarly level research, but then they included an unsupported rumor about the UPC symbols having 666 in them. It was like, they said they were holding to a scholarly level of proof, ergo anything they happen to say is now scholarly.
It would be nice to know the name of the book. On the other hand, the "666 number of the Beast in UPC Symbols" is an example of general Christianity views on the Anti-Christ accepted by LDS members without independent conclusion.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Thanks Belle. When I was singing with the Alma College Choir we used to tour around to alot of Presby churches to sing. Always fun. One place, Kirk in the Hills was very strict, having acolytes and all the bells and whistles. It was more fancy than most Catholic places. Hehehe... I remember teasing the Presby's, calling them "Catholic lite". Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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