posted
I work for a district that has a fairly high level of poverty. We are not a hard core inner city school but we are definately very urban. Something we came up with last year as a team in the eighth grade was to provide a trip to Cedar Point (The Greatest Roller Coaster Park in the world) This is a trip that many of our students will never have the opportunity to go on any other way. We have developed it in such a way that everything is paid for, from transportation and tickets right down to lunch. WE have worked very hard all year on this and have had a date set from day one. Now that the trip approaches we have descovered that all of our plans need to be changed. The district will not allow us to go on a Sunday, even though we have taken parent surveys, discussed it with other administrators, booked the date and made the plans. We were planning on using a charter bus because our busses don't run on sunday. First we were told that as part of a union agreement, if we charter a bus we must also pay the salary that would have gone to the district driver, esentially addind another 200.00 to the cost. Then we were told we just plain couldn't take a charter. The so called "straw" was that while we had many people helping to look into way sto help us get going on our trip, our superintendant said that Sunday is the "Lord's Day" and closed the door on any further exploration of the trip. We are now faced with having to change plans last minute or cancel the trip. Changing the plans isn't a huge deal but we chose the date for a reason. It is the only available dat ethat all staff members are available. Any other date would cause at least two of our six members to be unable to attend and essentially ruin the whole"eight grade team" experience.
The frustration is that we are being thwarted by the very administration that has encouraged us to take "the extra setp" for these kids. I'm confused how we acn do that if they refuse to help. And I'll just also say that the comment about Sunday being the Lord's Day really upset me. Don't get me wrong... I agree. Sunday should be spent with family in church. however to have a school official use this as the reason seems, well, illegal. Isn't there this thing called seperation of church and state? Can church be used as an excuse to refuse our trip?
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Hope you can work around it. And yes, using a religious excuse to cancel a public school trip seems problematic.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Is this just a local decision by this superintendent, or is there any regulations/laws in your state against schools having activities on Sundays?
Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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There are many people that will not do things on Sunday for religious reasons, though. It does suck to have it on the day when many may not be able to go.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Actually there are no regulation even in our district about sunday trips. It has been an unwritten rul to not schedule on Sunadys. We aren't trying to push the envelope but after very careful consideration and conversation with high up administration we simply scheduled the day that worked best with the available guidlines we found. What is really making me upset is that now they are going to make the ruling official. THey are currently writing it in the rule book that no sunday trips are allowed.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Kat - actually of the 62 eligble students to go on the trip 52 returned permission slips and we have not heard on single complaint about the whole sunday issue. Of those that did not return slips, most simply forgot to have them back by the deadline. There may be a case or two where the parent refused because of the day but not a single one has brought it to our attention.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
yea, and here is a real kick... it has been suggested that we just cancel. This trip has been an insentive for behavior all year long. Do you have any idea what the students will do if we cancel this trip?!?!?! We'll make something work but canceling is NOT AN OPTION!!
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
THis is just a blanket appology for the numerous spelling and typing errors. I'm angry and have been dealing with this all week and my fingers aren't listening very well today. Plus I'm too lazy to go back and edit.
Below is a copy of the letter I sent to our superintendant this afternoon. I doubt it will make a difference but...
Mrs. Superintendant,
I am writing to express some concern about our upcoming Cedar Point trip. To be very honest, I am writing on my own, without the knowledge of the rest of my team. There are a lot of upset and hurt individuals on our 8th grade team over the entire trip. I had hoped that I could simply present some of the thoughts and feeling of our team to you with out any of the emotion. I see were arguments can be made from both sides and my intention is simply to give you the side that I feel best represents my team at the moment. I have no intentions of ruffling any feathers. We do not know each other well, but I feel comfortable addressing you with these issues based on the respect I have for you and I hope you have for me as well.
We have worked hard to offer the students the opportunity to earn themselves a trip to Cedar Point, a trip that many of them would not have the opportunity for any other way. We have spoken with the students about the trip all year long. They in return have been looking forward to this trip all year. When we originally planned our date it was after careful consideration of many variables. We spoke with the students about when would be best for the majority to be able to attend. We met as a team and discussed our various obligations and commitments at the end of the year. We sent home flyers to parent with information and space for feedback. Through all this we arrived at our date of Sunday, June 5th. We have looked at weekends before and after that date. We have looked at Saturdays as well as Sundays. Each other date was problematic for one reason or another. One of our concerns and considerations was the fact that we knew that the school rarely held events on Sundays, but after speaking with various administrators we could find nothing that prohibited us from that date. Our intentions were never to push the boundaries. We were not looking to be the difficult child at the back of the classroom trying to find loopholes. We simply planned what was best for our specific needs in accordance to what information we had available to us.
We have been told to change the date. While this may sound easy in theory, it has proven to be very problematic. We have actually been discussing this matter in great detail over the past couple of weeks. We have looked at Charter Busses, only to be told that we can not use them due to union rules, even on a day that the school does not offer the service. We have looked at changing the date ourselves before being asked by others to do this. This again has shown to be difficult due to previous commitments by our team members. Any other date leaves at least two of our staff members unable to attend, which leaves the field trip light on chaperones. We have even heard the suggestion that we cancel the trip. To be very honest I, as well as the rest of my team, feel this is not an option. For one reason, we have already begun a fund raiser with the students to raise the ticket money and many students already have made many sales. More importantly, this trip was planned with the best interest of the students in mind. We have young men and women who have worked very hard to be able to go on this trip. We have always operated under the impression that our job as educators was not only to teach but to create opportunities for kids that don't always have a lot of doors open for them. You yourself have been a wonderful example of putting the kids in our schools above all other issues. I think a lot of the frustration on the part of my team comes from the fact that some of us feel that we are being thwarted at ever turn by the very administration that has encouraged us to take that extra step for our students. This trip was never in place before and through the hard work of a couple of teachers it has become a reality.
My hope is that you look at this situation as a project in the works. This is our second year offering this trip. This year there have been changes due to the problems we experienced last year. Next year I expect there to be changes again. We are already discussing issues that need addressed and altered. I guess the simple fact of the matter is that I am writing you to ask that you please not yet shut the door on our trip this year. Our hope is that you will allow us to still explore the option of keeping our trip set for Sunday, June 5th. I know and respect your concerns about the Sunday trip, the entire team does. We all understand the need to re-evaluate how we address this trip next year. But unfortunately we find ourselves in a hard place and are looking for the support of our administration to help us get through this. I personally would be happy to sit down with you and discuss any or all of these issues. You have been such a strong supporter of our students that I hope you can help us find the solution that is currently alluding my team.
I appreciate your time and effort in this matter.
Sincerely,
Joshua Inglis Super Cool Middle School
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
It sure seems that if everyone planned this all year long, then the superintendent was well aware of it many months prior to this sudden disapproval! It just doesn't seem right.
Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I may be wrong, but doesn't the law that keeps people who commit a certain action before it was illegal from being punsihed after that action was made illegal also apply to this situation? it seems to me that since this trip was planned for a sunday before they said (or will say) sunday trips are a negative, then this trip should still be allowed to go on. I, also being from the buckeye state, would have loved to go to ceadr point my 8th grade year, why can't administrators think of that?
Posts: 283 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Man, this really is frusterating. I hope things work out so you can take your students to the trip. Not to detract from the thread, and pardon my ignorance, but is your school really called Super Cool Middle School, or is that just a pseudonym?
Posts: 681 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Actually I changed both the name of my superintendant from her actual name to the genegic Suerintendant and the name of our middle school to my lame "Super Cool Miidle School" simply to keep myself form getting in any kind of trouble. Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Lo, on Sunday, verily I say, thou shalt not mow thy lawn, learn anything new, or have fun, lest parents complain and send angry letters to thy senators.
Posts: 169 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
If you can't use charter buses and school buses only run on weekdays, then you can only go on a weekday, correct? Is part of the problem that you can't do it on a weekday?
Incidentally, is school out at that point?
Also, I think it's good that you didn't call him on the possibility of religious discrimination.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Well, the whole charter bus issue is very interesting. Our union has made it so that we can not use any other services. I can understand this, to a point. They will run on Saturdays and we would have to come up with the cost. 16.00 an hour for the driver, .25 a mile and a ticket for the driver. No problem in its self. Actually much cheaper than a charter and what we would prefer to do but there is no Saturday that works for us. We had the charter all arranged but have been told that even though they won't offer the transportation we still have to pay the 16.00 an hour that would have gone to the driver, that won't drive us because they don't drive on sundays, but were losing money because we used other services.... Now even this isn't an option. we just plain can't go on Sunday.
quote: Incidentally, is school out at that point?
No this is not after the school year. This is one of the options we are exploring. If we can't make our original date work then we hope they will let us go the friday after our last day of school.
I also just have to laugh. I have mentioned my Superintendant a number of times and each time I have said she, her, or Mrs. but everyone has still responded by saying him or he. Funny how the preconcieved notions of gender roles still linger even in a community that I know doesn't put emphasis on gender. Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I commented in your thread on the other side, but if you really want help with this, call up a local civil rights organization, or even your local NAACP. You can pretty much guarantee that they'll jump on this. Oh, and call the local news too. They love this stuff.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote: I have mentioned my Superintendant a number of times and each time I have said she, her, or Mrs. but everyone has still responded by saying him or he.
If you need a chaperone, I might be persuaded. I have always wanted to go to Cedar Point.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote: call up a local civil rights organization, or even your local NAACP. You can pretty much guarantee that they'll jump on this. Oh, and call the local news too. They love this stuff.
I made mention to this on the other side as well. I am not ready to go down this road. She has been a wonderful addition to our district and is actually a great person and administrator. I mean she gave up an entire day to run a scoreboard during our wrestling tournament. (scored big points with me )I have even gotten to know her somewhat personally and would probably never take that route out of the respect I have for her and our district. We have had enough negative press over the years and I would never want to be the source of more.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote: If you need a chaperone, I might be persuaded. I have always wanted to go to Cedar Point.
I don't know about a chaperone but if and when we find a date I would be happy to give it to you and hook up for a ride or two. As teachers we really aren't going to do a ton of supervising. One check in time in the middle of the day and a time to meet at the bus with drastic consequenses for failing to be at either place.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
is there any way to make it a non-school function but with virtually the entire staff and student body involved?
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
To be honest we did for a moment consider contacting a church or other oganization in town to ask if they would want to "sponsor" the trip. Then go as a group seperate from the school. But we quickly decided we didn't want to open up the mess that would cause.
We have since decided on an alternate date. We will be going on the Friday after the last day of school. The school board approved allowing us to go after the year let out and this, although not our first choice, will work out fine. I'm feeling a little better about it now.
-Editted because my fingers are stupid and forget or add letters at random.
posted
Yay! Glad a compromise was found -- even though it may not work as well as originally planned - at least the kids get to go.
Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Seems that before you went to all the trouble of the fund raising and talking up the trip all year you would have made sure everything was go with the superintendent from day one.
Despite the fact that red tape is annoying and frustrating, it's something everyone has to deal with, and people in education even more so because they are de facto guardians of the children when parents aren't there. At least this did work out and you didn't have to cancel it. I'd suggest next time getting all approvals before you make concrete plans to prevent any such frustration from happening again.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote: I have mentioned my Superintendant a number of times and each time I have said she, her, or Mrs. but everyone has still responded by saying him or he.
I think it's because everyone keeps adding "Chalmers" directly after.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Just out of curiousity, what sort of things do you have to do to get approval for things like this?
Had you already talked if not to the Superintendant, then her office?
You'd metioned involving other administrators in the discussion and planning phase. Did it seem safe for you to assume that it would be OK, that their OK was enough?
This is not intended as a criticism. I'm just curious. Are you going to do this again next school year?
The whole situation seems strange too me, because when I was in middle and high school Sunday activities were never an issue. You could assume that if you were participating in some sort of team that you would occassionally be at least traveling on Sanday, and probably even competing/performing/(or whatever) on an occassional Sunday.
Maybe that was just an oddity of eithr New Mexico, or of the 80's!
Posts: 772 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Wow! She can't stop you from doing it becuase it falls on Sunday. Unless, of course, no school activities are planned on days with any relgious significane to anyone. Schools in the U.S. can't make choices based on a particular relgion. Using the argument that Going on Sunday is wrong becuase it is a day of Worship also rules out Friday, a day of worship for Muslims and the start of the Jewish Sabath. There may not be any Jewish or Muslim students in your school, but that is not relevent.
posted
OK, everyone take a deep breath before talking about what the school can and can't do in this regard. It's not nearly as simple legally as some people seem to think it is.
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Now even this isn't an option. we just plain can't go on Sunday. ![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
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