posted
Okay, I'm not whining or airing dirty laundry or whatever.
But this makes me confused as hell.
My parents have been going through a divorce since I graduated from college (mid-2002). My mother hasn't spoken to me (or my sister) since she left my father. The final judgement came through. Dad got the house (mom left him for another guy). Dad has to get Mom to sign the paperwork for the first mortgage so the mortgage he got on his own can be finished up.
She refused to sign unless he gave her three items.
What the crap?
Anyway, my sister called me today with the three items.
1. The pinball machine. My father got this at a garage sale when I was in high school. Dad loves pinball. Mom hates it. She wants it so he can't have it.
2. Mattress/boxspring set. God knows why she wants that.
3. The antique fencing foil my father fount in an old foundation near Great East Lake when he was a kid.
My dad gave that foil to me once he found out I had started fencing. He told me he knew it would mean a lot to me, since I've played with it since I was a little kid and now actually know how to use it (it's from around the early 1900's, you can tell by the figure eight bellguard that it has and the straight wooden french grip).
Mom wants it because she thinks it's worth something. She's already taken the stamp collection I inherited from my great grandfather (it was worth about two grand, but I kept it because, well, it was my great grandfather's!) and sold it. Mind you, it was HER grandfather that it came from. She also took my savings bonds and cashed those. She stole money from me in college. She also took out a credit card in my name that I'm still avoiding collection agency calls on.
Now she wants the damn foil.
It isn't worth that much money. Maybe about forty bucks. Certainly not worth selling and worth a priceless amount in sentimentality.
But she wants it.
Yes, I'm going to give it to her because Dad needs the house.
But, damn. I don't understand her. It's like she's stopping being a part of my life other than to keep taking things away.
I don't want pity or hugs or anything. Just some insight, because I can't seem to find anything into my mother.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
That sucks, mack. As a full-blown packrat/sentimentalist, I would fight tooth and nail to keep something that meant that much to me. I don't suppose there's any way to put a foot down? It is way noble of you to give up the foil for your dad, though. I'm sorry you guys have to go through this. My mom is psycho, too, but she's not that conniving.
posted
I don't have any insight into her character, really, beyond the obvious.
If I were in your situation it would gall me to do this, but how do you think she'd respond if you had the thing appraised, showed her an appraisal report, and offered to give her the amount it was appraised for? The problem with doing that is that if she accepts it sets a precedent that she'll probably use to extort money from you every time she has the leverage to do so. It does have the advantage of letting you keep the foil though.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I know this is probably too easy, but can your Dad explain that he gave it to you and it's no longer his to give.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
He HAS. That's the thing. I'm actually fairly certain that offering money in place of the foil won't work. She knows it hurts my father for him to have to give her the foil, because he has some emotional attachment to it because I do.
Take the foil to her, but demand she sign the papers in your presence before you hand it over. Make sure she's signed the papers and he needs nothing else.
Then walk away with the foil.
However, it may be easier to find a $40 foil that looks like it and give it to her. What she doesn't know won't hurt her.
posted
It says volumes that you're willing to give up something so important to you for your father. As for your mother, just remember, Karma is a Bitch. What goes around comes around, and altho you may not have the pleasure of witnessing it, you can trust it will happen.
What an effing Hooch. I'd be hard pressed not to slap the sh*t out of her everytime I saw her if that was my mother...
Posts: 262 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I'd say go with the swappable antique foil and see if she realizes the difference - since I guarantee she's only doing this out of spite, she won't know the difference.
posted
By the way, this would make a great short answer hypo for first-year contracts - there's consideration issues, possible fraud, and a chance to get creative.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
So why can't your dad sue your mother over the paperwork?
I don't care if she wanted a paperclip, a pair of my underwear, and some hair clippings, I still wouldn't give it to her. The point being that she has no right to demand anything. If the house is his by law then isn't there some way to just force her to sign, or remove her altogether?
Posts: 232 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
She has absolutely no right to demand anything that is not written and spelled out in the divorce settlement.
We just went through this with my mom's divorce. Dad comes up at the last minute and wants something...in our case Mom gave it to him because she had no desire to keep it at all, and only took it with her because it was worth something and he had just left it at the house. (the house was destryoed by a tornado, and everything still inside was exposed to the weather, she told him to go get whatever he wanted, then she went back and picked up whatever else seeemed salvageable)
He doesn't have to give her the foil, mack. I say don't do it don't give her the satisfaction. She's demanding something that is not legally hers, she has no leg to stand on.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Give her everything with a smile. It is only stuff. Then put it behind you and her as well. You can give her all that she asks and deny her the Hurt she needs with that smile and a 'Gee mom I did not know you wanted it... sure you can have it! The same with the pinball machine, your dad should buy a new top of the line one and tell her he hopes she enjoys the old one as much he did and thanks for the chance to get this new one he has been wanting but did not have a place for...
People ruled by there posessions and their emotions destroy themselves.
posted
Kwea, it may not be practical, or easy, but the truth of the matter is that they shouldn't give her anything.
It will only serve to show her that her demands work which seems to me can only lead to more painful situations.
Posts: 232 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Not true, this is a cutting away, so whatever the cost, she cannot keep coming back for more. The ultimate price for the ordinary man or woman is the loss of attention, so she will pay more in the end if you turn your back on her after.
posted
If you give in now, she'll keep demanding stuff for every legally required bit of cooperation.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I don't know enough about divorce law to say if this would really be the case, so I'm out on a limb here.
The items are in Dad's possession, yes? So all he has to do is refuse. He says "I'm not giving you these things, if you wanted them you should have asked for them in the divorce settlement, sorry."
What can she do? I think she has no other option but to sue for them, which adds in time, aggravation, and money on her part.
OTOH, if part of the divorce settlement was that she sign the paperwork for the first mortgage, then if she refuses to do that, she's in contempt, I think.
In other words, she must do what Dad wants, but he has no legal requirement to do what she wants. She is in no position whatsoever to bargain.
I would have Dad's attorney call her attorney and say she is refusing to sign the paperwork. (this is not an uncommon thing in divorce situations, any divorce attorney is going to be used to dealing with it) Her attorney will no doubt call her and tell he she has to sign the paperwork. Then she signs and that's the end of it. Keep your foil - it means something to you and your dad. No reason to give in to her pettiness.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
The trouble is, I think, that even though she is in the wrong, if she doesn't care about racking up the legal bills (and she seems to be vindictive enough not to care), she can make enforcing the divorce decree a HUGE pain.
I'd try the substitute foil, especially if you have one that's fairly similar. Sometimes, it's just not worth the time/effort/money to fight EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT. Especially when dealing with a divorce, where vindictiveness and irrationality are often such issues.
Please don't give her anything, especially that foil. We are mortal people, and it may be many years down the road, but eventually your family will lose your dad--as horrible as that is to think about. Wanting to keep a "thing" like that is not being materialistic, it's being sentimental, and there's nothing wrong with that. You'll always have your memories of your father, but I think it helps to have something tangible to hold onto, and to pass down to your children and their children...and on and on.
You have my deepest sympathy over the loss of your mother. Maybe one day she'll come back to you.
posted
My mother has been dragging this divorce out for two years, going back to court over and over again and doesn't seem to care about legal fees at all. Everyone just wants this over with, hence giving in.
It seems that the foil is tainted now anyway. Instead of just seeing it as a connection to my dad and someone long ago who fenced and owned that house above the old foundation, it's also got my mother's vindictive greed on it. I'll look at it and think "Ha! I put one over on my mother!"
And realize that my mother jumped right out of my life at her own choosing.
Cripes, this whole thing sucks. I'll try a substitution though. I'm still waiting for my sister to call me back about what the lawyers are saying. My mother already stalled and delayed once and my father lost the first mortgage approval that he had. This is the second one and time is running out.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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I think your mother is "testing the border." Much like little kids do to parents and teachers. "What can I get away with?" She will continue to do this until someone stops her. And she'll probably throw a tantrum when someone does.
You may be able to make a clean break by giving in, but she will continue to do this to other people until she finds someone who stops her.
And you can believe that she will continue trying to find ways of manipulating you and your father as well, so you'll never really be rid of her.
Also, she's not doing this to take it out on your father. She's doing it to you, and she knows it. Maybe she's angry at you for siding with your father, but it's you she's getting at.
I'd talk it over with your father and decide how much of a burden it would be if she doesn't sign the papers. My father and his first wife continued jointly owning a house until his death, many years after their divorce.
If it were me, I wouldn't give her a thing, no matter how annoying it is to still have unsettled issues.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
My parents got divorced when I was a child and my broher and I stayed wi/ my mum. my father wasn't such a prick though. You should give her a spoonful of her own chocolate. Go up to her one day, and very seriously, looking into her eyes, tell her this. "You are hurting me out of spite for my father. This proves what a worthless mother you are. I hate you." At least, that's what I would do. this might not be the best way to settle things, but it would send a messege to her. I don't think it will guarantee her getting the messege though.
Posts: 3389 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Oh, jeez, that does suck. I'm sorry, Mack. Is there any way for your father to legally enforce the fact that she needs to sign the papers? If so, if it were me, I would look into that. I'd hate for you to give up the foil simply because she's being a jerk.
People have spoken truly - those going through a divorce process can be totally irrational. My ex was one, and for a long time refused to sign our divorce papers unless I met his "demands." I held out, and he signed the papers once he learned the plan was to call in legal intervention.
Good luck, and keep us updated.
space opera
edit: who can't spell "suck" - me
[ April 26, 2005, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Space Opera ]
Posts: 2578 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I am so sorry Mack I don't understand how anyone can hurt their own child like this.I think your mother (I won't use the word Mom) is a very sick. I don't think she deserves pity ,really, I do think caution on your part is needed. If someone is harmful to you and those you love you are justified in removing that person from your life. Even a parent. I wish I could be there to give you a hug and say "It will be ok" but this will have to do (((Hug)))
Posts: 63 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Don't give in. Not because you are right (which you are) but because as others have said, she is trying to see how much she can get away with. Tell her you sold it, gave it away, or threw it in the trash. Tell her nothing at all. She has taken enough from you, don't give her permission to take more.
Jeez, mack, no wonder you have issues with authority. *duck*
I am not hugging you right now. I just wanted you to know that
Oh, and it is extortion for her to do that as a requirement for her cooperation on this matter.
posted
She's signed the papers, but has nothing in her hands yet. I still have the sword here.
We're going up today to visit my dad and his girlfriend (who's pretty cool, she called me the other day to talk about what happened) and my sister once she gets out of work. I'm bringing another sword I have, antique, same coloring, and has the same figure eight bellguard.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Mack, did you seriously try talking with her? No shouting, no cursing. Just "I love you, Mom. Why are you hurting me?" Maybe she's doing this because she wants your attention. She might have created a distance for the past couple years, but what have you done to contact her?
I can't imagine ever cursing my mother, as crazy as she might be sometimes.
I wish you luck.
Posts: 803 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Mack-- I can't explain why your mother is the way she is. I had a chidhood that was nothing I would wish on another. It was full of pain, confusion and fear. This,however, is no excuse to hurt anything or anyone else. I made a self- aware decision when I was about 6-years old. I wanted a baby and I was going to make sure that this baby had a childhood,I could only dream of, for them. I would do everything I could do to make sure that the life I protected lived as much of a fear free,anxiety free life as I could make it. I don't know if I am completely sucessful but my kids still talk to me and tell me they love me. Ryuko still calls me Mommy,which pleases me more than I can possibly explain.The reason I am running on is to tell you that this can stop. your mothers poisin. It can stop with you. If you have children of your own or not. How you treat people is who you are.
Posts: 63 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Hand her the fake one, after saying " I just want you to kno w that if you take this then I don't EVER want to see you again. You are doing this just to cause pain, and if that is what you want, then fine, you can have this. But once you take it, there is no turning back.".
Just to see what she says about it.
I have to see my Dad tomorrow, when I go down to see my mom for the first time in 4 months. I am not looking forward to it, I haven't been down there since Dad got rid of Penney.
I can't wait to see his face when I go to the hotel..I won;t ever spend another night under his roof. Not down there, without Penney.
Should be all sorts of "fun", don't you think?
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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She wants it so he can't have it.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Parents.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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I don't understand how anyone can hurt their own child like this.I think your mother (I won't use the word Mom) is a very sick. I don't think she deserves pity ,really, I do think caution on your part is needed. If someone is harmful to you and those you love you are justified in removing that person from your life. Even a parent. I wish I could be there to give you a hug and say "It will be ok" but this will have to do ![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
(((Hug)))
