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Without wanting to cause offense... I've noticed over the years that some American men have first names normally regarded as women's names, and I wonder where that comes from. I'm thinking particularly of names like Marion, Carol, Shirley(!), Meredith, Lynn. Shirley is the first name of a recent LDS General Authority, Meredith is an older man on The Amazing Race, Marion was John Wayne's real name, I believe, and I had a friend named Lynn in college. Carol I've seen as the first name of a TV actor in the 60s. There may be other examples. It's always struck me as wierd. (I just can't imagine, no matter how hard I try, being a father who would name his son Shirley or Meredith.) It seems to be something relatively peculiar to the US, but I may be wrong. I know that in some cultures at least, names are not gender specific, but those tend to be non-Western, non-English-based cultures. Is it a regional thing in the US, or what? Anybody have any ideas?
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Shirley was originally a last name, used as a boys' name more often than a girls' name. Anne of Green Gables, when she got married, named one of her sons Shirley.
All the others you mention were originally either boys' names or unisex names. Unisex names are very popular right now. Also, it used to be a not-too-common but not-too-unusual practice to name a child after a deceased parent or other close relative, regardless of gender.
You really don't have to do much research to find an awful lot of names that have switched gender in the last 150 years or so. Hilary/Hillary, Alison, all kinds of names once mostly used for boys are now mainly used for girls.
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They used to be masculine or gender-neutral names, and perception of them have changed to view them as exclusively feminine. The people you have mentioned were all of an earlier generation, born before the change.
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I find that so interesting. I'm trying to think of examples in my own country (NZ) where that gender/name shift has happened, but, off the top of my head, can't at the moment. It still seems to be more an American phenomenon. I wonder if that's because in some ways America is quite conservative linguistically, at least in some places? Is it more a regonal thing? The whole name thing fascinates me, because as a teacher I see a parade of name fashions move through my classroom, along with some genuinely bizarre names thrown in to the mix.
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I know a very large black man named Kelly. I'm pretty sure if you gave him the name "Suzabelle" he would make it manly, though.
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Yeah - I was the only female Tracy in my high school -- the other two were boys. Now it is commonly a girl's name.
My grandfather had the name of Pearl - and it was an inherited name from generations before. I think many of the Europeans who came to America had first names that we now tend to think of as girl names instead of guy names.
Does it happen in cultures other than European-American? Those of us whose families originally came from Europe or Britian?
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Jaime or Jamie is now usually a girl's name, but originally was almost exclusively a nickname for James.
Morgan is still fairly unisex; I'd think of it more as a boy's than a girl's name (and as a last name), but I've know a couple of girls named Morgan.
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What about Whitney? I have a friend (girl) named Whitney, and have always thought of it as a girl's name. Just a few days ago, however, I got told a story about a man named Whitney.
I had always thought of it solely as a girl's name.
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quote:Originally posted by Book: I know a very large black man named Kelly. I'm pretty sure if you gave him the name "Suzabelle" he would make it manly, though.
That's funny, and probably a good example of the kind of gender shift we're talking about, because I have an 83 year old cousin who says that whenever she hears of a girl named Kelly she thinks straightaway of a big, fiery-haired IrishMAN.
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At my elementary school, the yearbook was messed up once, so most of elementary I didn't know this boys name (a year older than me). In middle school I found out his name, Courtney. But he was the biggest guy on the football team, and in the advanced classes, so there was no teasing involved. The guy book described made me think of it, same sort of guy.
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I'm friends here at work with a girl named Kelle, and her husband's first name is also Kelly. (yep - just spelled different, but sounds the same)
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What a coincidence, this thread! I just interviewed a guy named Dana (pronounced just like the girl's name is). I did not ask the origin of the name because he is an ex football coach and I am too old to run fast.
I think this is the first man named Dana I have ever met.
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Almost forgot the two volleyball coaches in our league named Kim. One is a man, the other is his wife. Kim and Kim.
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Usually, a name starts out as a male name, goes neutral and then is immediately stigmatizing because it's a 'girl name'.
Courtney and Lynn are a couple of those. It is currently happening to Taylor and Sydney (many more girls than boys named those two names). Has already happened to Shannon, Kelly, and so forth.
But one of the third graders I tutored was a boy named Maurion. Manly, but still sort of close to Marion.
Had a client whose named was Bernice, but he pronounced it BURN-iss.
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Dana (pronounced Day-na) was originally a male name. In fact in all the older "what does your name mean" books it means "man from Denmark." Some of the newer ones have added a more girly meaning. Pronounced Dan-uh it was a feminized form of Dan.
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There's a girl in one of my classes named Jamie. When she told the tutor her name, he said 'I was expecting a great big strapping Scottish lad!'
I know a man named Beverly. People always assume that he is a woman until they meet him. This can be difficult for his wife.
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I know a couple, in which husband and wife are both named Shani. THAT was weird, when you got the two of them, and me, in the same room together. Too many Shanis in one area, if you ask me.
But that's the only time I've ever seen Shani used as a guy's name, usually it's exclusively female.
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I grew up as a little girl named Morgan and though it's pretty ubiquitous now as a girl's name (a mere 20 years later), I got mistaken for a boy all the time. It was rather traumatic.
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A family at a school I work at has a son named Paris (where he was concieved), a daughter named Wednesday (after the Addams family), and their new baby is going to be named Strawberry.
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quote:I remember discussing this at...was it at the con?
Yes, we did discuss it, I think at Katie's house, probably because I mentioned that my name, Alexis, is a guy's name in almost every language but English.
Of course, I was also named after my great-grandfather, Aubrey Alexius and if I ever have a daughter, I fully intend to name her Aubrey. And Aubrey Alexius's brother was Meredith. So my family has a history with men's names that have shifted to female names.
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I would have thought Paris would be the first. I mean, every time someone says your name, you think of your parents having sex? Poor kid.
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My younger sister's name is Aubrey. I also had driver's ed long ago with a girl named Ryan. And of course my own name is Jamie. I used to get a lot of stuff addressed to Mr. Jamie Taylor. Those are the ones that immediately get thrown out.
Isn't part of the name thing caused in part by naming a son with his mother's maiden name?
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I dated a guy named Dana. I've known males and females named Kyle. I worked for a Christine (went by Chris) who married a Christian (also went by Chris).
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Dana as a male name is more common than I thought. Thanks for the information, dkw! The Dana I interviewed is from an east central European background, btw.
Anyone else run into Kim as a male name??
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I liked of like the name Wednesday. And also September for some reason. E. Lynn Harris is a male writer I like.
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quote:Originally posted by Xavier: Edit 2: Jaime Foxx?
is not his real name. I read an interview about the time that Ray came out. When he was trying to get his start as a standup comic, he noticed that it was mostly women or people with funny names that got called up for Open Mike. So he listed himself with a couple of gender-ambiguous names, and Jamie Foxx happened to be the one called first.
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Casey/Kasey! I know a very cute little girl named Casey. My grandfather's initials were K.C. so I used to think his name was Casey.
There was a boy in my high school named Dana. And I had a friend whose sister's name was Bobbie. And one of my mom's friends - a man - is Kim. I'm not sure whether that's his given or family name though; he's Korean so it's likely his family name.
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Shannon was still a "boy's" name when I was a little girl which of course was tramautic.
Now it seems to mostly apply to girls.
What's even more odd is that I received a mistaken call for someone with the same first and last name as myself the other day that lives here in my city - and my last name is not common.
Velly interesting. The world is truly a small place . . .
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Val is another both-gendered name (eg. Val Kilmer) that's more common for females. Carey can be both as well. I have two sisters with these names and my middle name is Leslie. My parents seem to like gender-neutrality...
I also know boys named Shannon and Morgan, and my mother knows a man named Beverly, which is more common as a girl's name these days. Carmen can be both too I think, although I've only know girl Carmens.
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In my 4-H club we have four sisters, Taylour, Jordynn, Ryen and Ashley (the mom is expecting a baby, not sure what it will be).
My elementary school principal was Kim. There was a guy in orchestra one year named Jan (Yan) but when the assistant director was taking attendance she said Jan and then said she loved boys named Jan, that her husband has a brother named Jan and if she would have had two sons the second would have been Jan, so the boy, incredibly ebarrassed by this point, said it's Yan, I think that could have been the moment that caused him to quit.
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I had a friend named Henrietta in high school who went by the nickname "Henri." One guy in our social group jokingly called her "Hank."
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Heh. This just reminded me of a prank a friend and I played on a substitute teacher once in high school. I went by Sharon then, and his name was Peter, and we decided to switch names for the day like high school students always do with subs. With some creative explanation, we convinced her and we were Sharon (rhymes with bemoan) and Petra from then on. It was *so* hard not to crack up when she kept calling him Shar-own...
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Also, Jocelyn used to be a boy's name and is now mostly female. I know one boy and two girls with it, but the boy is forever getting grief about having a girl's name.
Ooh, and of course, there's Jayne from Firefly.
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