posted
Wow! She's a swing vote on so many issues! If it was Rehnquist, he's conservative, and would be replaced by another conservative, so what? I hope Bush doesn't give the nod to a real rabid conservative, or a lightning rod like Ashcroft. Hopefully, he will pick someone more centrist that will get some democratic support.
I'm surprised, I thought it was going to be Rehnquist.
quote:Possible replacements include Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales
If that happens, I will leave the US (seriously). I will not continue to be part of a country that supports torture and awards violators of basic human rights with such appointments.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Bye bye Rabbit! See ya! Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
I'm anxious for another good conservative to get on the court. So many votes have been close and she's been such a swinger. Ashcroft would be great and so would Gonzales. Not to mention I bet the constitutional option will be forced through finally. No more filibusters on nominations. Excellent. I’m very excited and hopeful that the Senate Republicans will do the right thing and get Presidents Bush’s nominees through.
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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It'd be a nice change for me to unabashedly support Democratic blockading of a Bush nominee-past blockages I see mingled pure politics and honest reasons.
Which I can do if Gonzales is put forward to Congress. Hell, I'll even be pissed at that freaking jackass if he's even put out there on the list.
Fortunately I'm quite certain that it won't happen. If the Democrats have the balls to prevent Bolton from being pushed through, they've certainly got the balls to prevent Gonzales from making it to the USSC. I kind of hope Bush does present Gonzales, so I can see Democrats having some stones for an issue I totally agree with.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Gonzales is by no means the right man to become a United States Supreme Court Justice. I hesitantly think he's alright for Att. Gen., but not the USC, man.
Your sentiments about Rabbit are shameful and un-American, by the way. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. We (Americans) are supposed to want dissent, you bloody McCarthyist.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Ashcroft and Gonzales would both suck as appointments. I seriously doubt either would be appointed. The really in-your-face move would be to nominate Estrada, but I don't see that as very likely.
But yes, if the nominee is fillibustered, the deal is gone.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
The people who left Germany when Hitler began his rise to power were the smart ones.
I'm very very disturbed by the lack of respect for basic human rights that this latest bunch in power have. Not only do they seem to think torture and disappearing people is fine, but they've also reintroduced Soviet-style Lysenkoism to science, defunding anyone whose research shows anything contrary to their political agenda. To the revelations of torture in U.S. military prisons abroad, their answer was to restrict the pictures soldiers are allowed to send home?
It's like the Soviets won the cold war or something, because our government has adopted so many of the techniques and tactics of the pre-glastnost Soviet Union. Why?
If we're in favor of Democracy, then that means openness. The rule of law. No more lies. No more spin. No more secrets. That's our way and we know it works. Why change that?
Hopefully the American people will have sense enough to toss out these guys in the next election. Now if they put another Clarence Thomas type on the Supreme Court, it will be that much worse, and for years to come.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Oh, I think Democrats could argue in good faith if Gonzales in particular were nominated (his name being associated with support of torture), it would constitute an extraordinary circumstance.
Ashcroft wouldn't be too hard, either.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jay is demonstrating exactly why many people of conscience like myself feel ashamed our our country.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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Nahhh…. Nothing un-American about that. Saying you’re going to leave over it is very un-American though. I’m still waiting for all these movie stars who said they would leave if President Bush got reelected to leave and I would want the gate to hit them on the way out! Ha!
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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If you think people of like mind with Jay won't be found wherever you go, Rabbit, you're in for a rude awakening indeed.
I know you don't expect that, but I thought I'd point it out. For example, Spain's new SSM legislation (unfortunately it will be quite awhile before that makes its way across the Atlantic to us, or even south of the border for that matter) passed fairly narrowly.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Let me refine my prediction: If the nominee is fillibustered and a majority favors confirmation, the deal is done.
The Democrats' definition of "extraordinary" is irrelevant to the outcome. It's the Republicans' that count, because they're the ones who will decide if the deal has been broken.
BTW, to say Gonzales a supporter of torture or a violator of human rights based on those memoes is inaccurate at best.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
The Democrats won't protest if Gonzalez is nominated. Sure, they did before, but Gonzalez is pro-abortion -- said Roe v. Wade is "inviolable." If Gonzalez is nominated, it's Republicans who will argue.
I would say it would be interesting, hearing the ones who tried to block him from atty general pushing for his nomination to the court, but the media will downplay it if that happens.
Posts: 1877 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Ok, I can't get the link to work how I want..... just go to CNN.com and look for the "• Special Report: Potential nominees" link.... Sigh....
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:If you think people of like mind with Jay won't be found wherever you go, Rabbit, you're in for a rude awakening indeed.
I've lived in alot of places and am not so naive.
And Jay, I'm afraid I can't be friends with anyone who so routinely meets my serious concerns with mockery. When you (and the President you so adore) can start treating me and my values with the respect they deserve, I will reconsider.
If wanting to leave a country because it supports torture is un-American -- then I am un-American.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote: BTW, to say Gonzales a supporter of torture or a violator of human rights based on those memoes is inaccurate at best.
But he did call the Geneva Conventions "quaint."
Gonzales is at the heart of the human rights abuses of Abu Ghirab and Git-mo. Many military lawyers (hardly a liberal bunch) vehemently disagreed with his take on abandoning a long history of US treatment of POWs.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Whatever Rabbit, you know we’re not guilty of torture. You just love the buzz and the sound of it so you can try and make President Bush look bad.
And as I said, the un-American thing is wanting to leave over this. It would be interesting to see if people who have said they would leave, and have, if they like the new more socialist country they go to better.
By the way, does this mean you don’t want to play some golf? Hang out at a book signing? Go to a ball game?
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Yes, I know, but I have deep-seated doubts about Gonzales. While the evidence against him is not ironclad...let's just say I wouldn't want to be a prisoner in his jail.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jay, please fix your link. And your attitude.
Edit: thanks for the link fix. Now for the attitude adjustment--now, this won't hurt a bit. Is it safe? *screech of dental drill*
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
And yes, Jay, telling people that you're glad they're leaving just because of political differences of opinion IS un-American.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:You know we’re not guilty of torture. You just love the buzz and the sound of it so you can try and make President Bush look bad.
I wish I did, but the evidence is growing that the US is up to at least its knees in torture. I don't love the buzz. I hate it. I hate being associated with a country that denies peoples human rights. I don't need to make Bush look bad, he does a fine job on his own. When Bush was originally elected, I was hopeful that he would live up to his promise of being a uniter and that unlike many other conservatives, he might respect that opinions of his opponents and seek compromises which would unite rather than divide. The constant cricism that I never gave Bush a chance or I would like him, is simply unfounded (not to mention insulting and rather condescending).
Your dismissal of my concerns is exactly what I mean when I say that you and your beloved President so no respect for me and my ideas.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
What is the American response when someone says they are leaving this country because they disapprove of its course? Pleading for them to stay? Quickly agreeing with them to keep them happy? Or offering to help them pack? This is for future reference. Thank you.
Posts: 216 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Perhaps asking why they are so upset with the country or its actions? Maybe listen to their concerns and see if there's something to them, or try to talk to them to see if misunderstandings have occurred or some compromise might be found?
If one of your children expresses displeasure over your household and starts packing, do you wave as they go or try to find out why?
It may be that the concerns of the person leaving are irreconciliable with you, but at least you'll know.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:You know we’re not guilty of torture. You just love the buzz and the sound of it so you can try and make President Bush look bad.
Well. I'm very tempted to take each one of the words in that lovely quote and assign a different photo from Abu Ghraib to each, but I don't have the time. You'll just have to imagine it.
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:What is the American response when someone says they are leaving this country because they disapprove of its course? Pleading for them to stay? Quickly agreeing with them to keep them happy? Or offering to help them pack? This is for future reference. Thank you.
Here are some:
1.) Please stay and help us fight to correct Problem X.
2.) Problem X is not really a problem. Here's some additional information I think you should consider.
3.) I hadn't heard of Problem X. Could you please point me to some additional information on this issue?
4.) I'm sorry you feel so disconnected from our country that you feel the need to leave. I hope this decision works out for the best for you.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I wasn't really trying to be very snarky. I just don't much care if someone I don't know decides to leave the country.
I've thought about leaving myself for different reasons, but so far none of the reasons have been big enough. I don't expect anybody to really care if I leave. After all, we'll still all be on the 'net.
quote: By the way, Clinton and Bush Sr are still friends and hang out, so we all can too!
Yeah well Former President Clinton and Former President Bush both behave like decent adults.
What makes some people obnoxious is not their political position, but rather their nasty and arrogant behavior towards other citizens with opposing views. Posts: 772 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Is it impossible to settle differences without personal attacks, accusations, exaggerations, and the like? I don't think it's reasonable to argue about the flaws in potential nominees when no names have even been put forth yet. Heated controversy seems to be an addiction in these troubled times.
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It's kind of odd to assume that the point of personal attacks and the like is to settle differences, isn't it?
Posts: 3564 | Registered: Sep 2001
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I am concerned about many things we let our government do, but "I'm going to leave the country" is overused. People threaten to leave the country every election, every major decision, everything. It never happens. Saying it is a melodramatic way of getting attention.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Rember: I don't think it's reasonable to argue about the flaws in potential nominees when no names have even been put forth yet. Heated controversy seems to be an addiction in these troubled times.
But I like to argue! And this is a critical issue, a Justice can serve for decades and wield enormous influence.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I would rather discuss than argue. It's better to downplay emotions and highlight facts, and remain on friendly terms.
Posts: 216 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Saying it is a melodramatic way of getting attention.
Or perhaps I feel strongly enough about torture that I simply won't keep paying taxes to pay for it. So far, the courts have come down on the side of human rights and against the Bush administration policies in Gitmo, but the decisions have been close. If Gonzales is appoint to the court, It is highly likely that court opinions will swing the opposite direction. When that happens I will have very few choices, jail for tax evasion or immigration to another country that still recognizes the Geneva convention, the Anti-torture convention and the universal declaration of human rights. You may think I'm being melodramatic, think what you will. I have already started looking for a position outside the US. I'm not looking forward to leaving my extended family or the beauty of the land I love but I could not in good conscience continue to support the US government in Gozales were appointed to the Supreme Court.
Sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand. I've drawn mine. If I had real courage, I would go to jail with other tax protestors.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I try to be friendly while arguing. I have no animosity against Jay. I do think some of his political positions are apalling, but he's entitled to his opinion. But Ashcroft, Jay, OMG? Not only would he be a bad justice, he's so polarizing his confirmation hearing would degenerate into a melee that would benefit no one, including the president. I can't imagine Bush miscalculating that badly.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Rember: I would rather discuss than argue. It's better to downplay emotions and highlight facts, and remain on friendly terms.
Yes, but not quite as satsifying.
Posts: 3564 | Registered: Sep 2001
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I know three families who HAVE left the country since the last election.
I have always had mixed feelings about them. Lucky for them, they have somewhere to go for four years and can then come back.
Posts: 772 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Rember: I don't think it's reasonable to argue about the flaws in potential nominees when no names have even been put forth yet. Heated controversy seems to be an addiction in these troubled times.
The name has not officially been put forth but their have been several indications that Gonzales is at the top of the White Houses list. Given the Bush administrations policy of "staying the course" on issues not matter how hot they become. If Bush nominates Gonzales, they will make it a fight to the death to get approved by the Senate. I think the time to start opposing Gonzales is right now -- before he has been nominated. Perhaps then the Bush administration will avoid the fight and pick a more appropriate candidate.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I look at MOST threats to leave the country the same way as I look at threats to leave Hatrack: as a means of getting attention. As in, "Somebody please stop me!"
You take yourself out of the process, you DESERVE to be out of the process. You have expressed unfaith in the community and in the intellects of those who make it up to change things for the better.
That is simply your perogative; I wish you all the best, but don't expect me to cater to your plea for attention. I'm hanging on with all the faithful, and I don't have time to spare for your defeatism.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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If it's any consolation Rabbit, speculations on SCOTUS nominations are pretty much based on air. And Bush has held this very close to the chest.
Anyone who puts him "at the top of the list" without citing a source is either guessing or repeating others' guesses. I've seen at least 4 people listed as "top of the list" in the last 6 months.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Curiously, The link at the top of the page has been edited since I first read it. The quote I posted referring to Gonzales as the top candidate for the position was copied directly from the article. I was part a paragraph that list several likely candidates. I just went back to the site to see because I had forgotten some of the other names on the list and its gone. I wonder why they chose to edited out that part of the article.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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