posted
Okay - here's the background - my daughter Emily is 8 and in gymnastics and she's good. I mean, no reason for false modesty, she is actually quite talented and that is evidenced by the coaches moving her rapidly up through the ranks to where she is now. She barely missed making the competition team for this year, by the time she was ready to move up they had already ordered the uniforms but it's a safe bet she will be on the team next year, now the question is which level.
Last night, I dropped Emily off, then took my other daughters to dance class. By the time I got back to the gym I could tell Em was upset about something, just in the way she was performing on the floor and one of the other moms told me Em had been looking over at the seats watching for me for some time.
In the car she told me that during their workout on the uneven bars she was not keeping her legs together so the coach taped them together and all the other girls laughed at her.
My first reaction was "How dare the coach intentionally humiliate my child!" But, then I calmed down and realized that I'd seen this before. I've seen other coaches tape legs together, I've seen one of the boys coaches tape sticks to one boys legs like splints so he wouldn't bend them during a pommel horse routine. I didn't have a problem with it really, until it was my child.
There's also a nasty, snippy little girl in Emily's class who is always mean and ugly to her. She teases Emily especially because Em is one of the youngest at this level, and has moved up the fastest, which makes her a target. That girl was especially cruel to Em about the taping incident.
My mother wants me to say something to the coach, about the leg taping and also tell her to stop the other girl from teasing Emily.
I just don't know what good it will do and whether or not Em needs to go through some of this. I mean, gymnastics is a very public sport - and when you mess something up everybody knows it. It's got to be humiliating to fall off a beam in competition, but you also have to get back on.
And I like this coach. Before her, Em had a sweet coach who was always like the kids' best friend and loved them and hardly ever criticized them. She did a good job, but the difference in Em's skill level since she moved to this new coach is amazing. The new coach coaches gymnastics because she loves it. She's an attorney, senior partner in her own firm, she doesn't do this for the money. I admire her for the techniques she uses and also because she doesn't coddle the kids - though most of them would do anything for her she inspires them to be better.
Would you say or do anything? I talked to Em, at length, and she calmed down and said that she knew that the coach just wanted her to be better. She also said she'd rather the coach do this than get a bad score from a judge at competition because she didn't keep her legs together. Wes talked to her too, and she seems to be okay.
Honestly, the other girl teasing her so often bothers me more than the taping thing. But then again, I can't be there to fight all her battles all her life, and if the coach says something it probably will only make the teasing worse.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
You've really thought it all out well here, Belle -- and laid it all on the line. It is obvious that you are seeing it from both viewpoints, in a balanced way.
For that reason, I think you will settle on whatever is the right answer for your daughter all by yourself, and I'm not going to give an opinion and say "this is how I would do it" because I really don't know for sure until I would be in that situation.
posted
Only a really good mother would have thought of all the things you thought of, Belle.
For what it's worth, you might want to explain to Emily what you explained to us, translated for 8 year old ears. I don't know her, so I don't know if that's feasible, but if it is, it might be worthwhile.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
1) Sounds like she's good on the leg taping. Just sitting down and talking to her about it was probably the best thing you could do. If she understands why it was done, and can articulate it, then she'll be fine. She sounds like a little trooper, so no harm is done here. Just one distressing day when she got hurt and mom wasn't there to fix it immediately.
2) With the teasing, teasing really IS a problem. But there's very little to do about it, usually. In this case, the only real solution seems to me to suggest that the coach get all the kids together, and explain how support is better for reach athlete to improve him or herself, then an environment where they don't get along. Singling one kid out will make the situation worse, but, a good "team build" can make it better.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
I wouldn't say anything to the coach. After I calmed down, I might have a conversation with my daughter about how everyone encounters a mean person in their lives sooner or later and now is as good a time as any to try to learn how to deal with them. If she was 3, I would say it was too soon to have that conversation, but since she's 8, and she's aiming for competitive sports, this is a good life skill for her to continue building. You might even find that Emily changes her focus to look on it as a challenge. So then you two might brainstorm about ways to deal with mean people.
Some ideas, since your family is church going is to pray for the mean little girl. Might even read passages in the Bible about how we're supposed to do that for people we don't like. Another idea is to have her bring something nice for the other girl. Kill her with kindness.
Or she could try getting into a knock down drag out fist fight until the coach has to seperate them.
See what strategies your daughter thinks of. She might surprise you....my son always does when we have conversations like this.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
So the problem is the teasing, not the taping. That means asking the coach to stop the taping will not solve the problem, since she will be teased just as much (and maybe more severely) if she doesn't use these methods and ends up getting bad scores as a result.
The ways to solve the problem are (1)get the other kids to stop teasing, or (2)get Emily to be less bothered by it. (1) is probably impossible.
If you are going to say something to the coach, I think it makes sense to keep the above in mind. I'd bet the coach knows best on how to develop certain skills, so critizing the coach on the taping technique is probably a bad idea. However, I'd also bet you know Emily better than the coach does, so making the coach aware that Emily is particularly bothered by that teasing could help her coach better to Emily. So, if you ARE going to say something, try to avoid criticizing the coach's methods and instead help the coach understand Emily - if you are just criticizing her then you will probably be viewed as one of "those" parents. But if you are informing her, then you will probably be viewed as simply helping the coach. Remember that the one thing the coach probably wants the least is for Emily to get frustrated and eventually quit.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I consider one of the other moms a friend, and I did ask her if her daughter had many problems with the teaser (we'll call her Betty) The mom told me no, because Betty and her daughter go to school together and she and Betty's mom know each other but that she had seen Betty act that way toward others and wasn't surprised that it was going on. She told me that the coach was certainly aware of it because there had been problems in the class due to Betty before Emily came into the class.
See there is a problem with Em - so far she has not stayed in a class long enough to really make friends. She gets moved up to a higher level class too fast, and when she comes into a higher level class and is younger than some of the girls there, and has been moved up faster than they have, there is resentment.
I've heard moms talk about other girls, saying things like "Sally (not a real name) moved up to level 5 this week, and I don't get it, she can't even do a cartwheel on the beam as well as my Jenny, I don't know what the coaches are thinking." I'm sure similar things have been said about Em by moms in the classes we've left. While I don't repeat that stuff (except here, and with made up names) I know Emily picks up on some of it too from the girls so she feels pressure to prove that she's good enough to be there and she takes the teasing very hard.
She's very tough, I've seen her fall from a beam so hard she carried bruises for more than a week, but get right back up and complete the move she fell on. When she was told by a coach her upper body strength needed work, she asked us for a pull up bar and spends time on it every day - now she has the record in the gym for the most consecutive pull-ups by a girl at her level.
She's so dedicated and so determined that it makes her vulnerable. That's what upsets me. If she didn't care so much, it wouldn't hurt her so badly. My oldest daughter takes dance because it's fun and she loves it, but it's not a big deal to her if she doesn't move to a certain level or if she gets corrected by an instructor. It's just not as important to her. Emily can't look at gymnastics that way, she wants to succeed and she pushes herself and sometimes I wonder if that's entirely a good thing.
Wes and I never push her, in fact, in talking to her last night Wes said that if gymnastics ever got to where it wasn't fun anymore she didn't have to go we wouldn't force her and she was incredulous. "Daddy, I'm never quitting gymnastics!"
What do you do with a kid like that?
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
You sound like a great Mom and Emily is very lucky to have you. We've all been through, or will go through what you are talking about right now and it's never easy.
We never want our kids to be teased, nor tease anyone else and hopefully she never will.
As for taping, tell Emily that the little brat--er--I mean other girl who teased her will have little to say when Emily wins the gold becasue her legs were straight!!
Personally, I have learned in life that most all of the people doing the teasing do so out of jealosy.
Good luck and let her gift develop as it needs to!
Posts: 56 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
You let them take the lead. Someday we will see her in the Olympics.
I have a son who does not respond well to teasing or any time of criticism from his peers. It is a problem with a few of the scouts in his troop. He is behind them so right now they are in the next level but he will join them in a few months and we'll have a few months where he hates scouts because of these boys. We've never been able to figure out a way to help him cope.
It sounds like your daughter really has a good head on her shoulders though, especially for an 8 yo. Brainstorm with her some ways to deal with the other girl and let her take the lead. Of course you have to step in if things get out of hand but I think your daughter (from what you've said about her) will be smart enough to let you know if she needs you to step in.
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Oh I do. Immensely. But I mean is it worthwhile to try and protect her, or should I just accept that she's going to push herself and get hurt sometimes (physically and emotionally)?
Everybody's posts are helping, btw, thank you. I think Tres is right in that if I talk to the coach it needs to be focused on helping the coach understand Emily and not on what the coach is doing..
I do admire this coach for her straight-shooting - once Emily was bothered that she hadn't mastered the back walkover yet and felt she was behind the class. But she also didn't like practicing it at home, because we don't have good mats and she was afraid of getting hurt and I of course discouraged her from practicing something she could get hurt on without mats or proper spotting.
Emily and I both stopped the coach after class and once I explained the problem the coach never looked at me again - she addressed Emily directly. She said "First of all, you're not behind you're right where I want you. Second of all, you are right to not want to practice that at home, that's why you come to the gym twice a week to work on your skills where it's safer and where I can help you. Third of all, never ever be upset about where you are in the class - and if you have questions, come ask me I'll tell you exactly where you are, good or bad. But for right now, I'm very pleased with your progress."
I know the coach would be receptive to talking to me and would be honest with me.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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What do you do when your kids are focused on goals that you don't think are attinable?
I mean, the Olympics takes so much more than we'd ever be able to give, the highest and elitist of the elite are who go to the Olympics and they're people who were sent away from their parents and train seven days a week with a world class coach. That won't happen here.
But this gym has been operating for more than 20 years and has a long list of girls who went on to get college scholarships and perform at the colletiate level and that's a very attainable and worthwhile goal.
But do you tell an eight year old an Olympic dream is not in her reach?
What I have done so far is tell her to focus on goals that are closer and look at doing things one thing at a time - like right now we're focused on making team. And we're focused on individual skills getting the back handspring down and the cartwheel on the beam.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Or should I just accept that she's going to push herself and get hurt sometimes (physically and emotionally)?
Yes.
She's at the age were teasing is almost inevitable. Maybe it would help if you explained "Betty"'s rationale for the teasing, i.e. she's jealous. That helped me. Once I realized that I was teased because it was obvious that I was smarter than everyone else I just stopped worrying about it. Until I got bigger than most of my classmates, and the teasing stopped for a lot of other reasons.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
And don't even think about talking her out of her Olympic goals. You know it's a pipe dream, but it's to be admired, not deflated, that she wants to be the best of the best.
She'll eventually realize it as well.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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"Oh I do. Immensely. But I mean is it worthwhile to try and protect her, or should I just accept that she's going to push herself and get hurt sometimes (physically and emotionally)?"
Both. Protect her from needless hurt the same as you do your other children, help her through the needful hurt so she understands it.
"What do you do when your kids are focused on goals that you don't think are attinable?"
Encourage them the same as if they ahve attainable goals. SHE should tell you when she realizes she'll never be an olympic athlete. When she finds out what needs to be done to get to that level, she'll bring it to you if she wants to persue that goal. If she's 12, and wants to be an olympic athlete, and says "In order to reach this goal, mom, I need to go to a special coach who lives 1000 miles a way, and I need to live there 45 weeks out of the year, and I want to do this," THEN you have a dilema. You don't have to push her to a goal you believe is unattainable, and shouldn't (ever seen the obsessive little league parents? Don't be them) but you shouldn't slow her down, either. Keep pushing her, but don't push her beyond her enthusiasm for the sport.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
It's also probably a good idea to focus her on more immediate goals. Whether or not she ever makes it to the Olympics, she is still going to have to focus on more intermediate steps.
1) It allows for quicker gratification. No matter what, the olympics would be a long way off. In that time, it is easy to get discouraged by the distance of the goal. Focussing on the task at hand will allow for a sense of progress, leading up to the long term goal.
2) It allows for much more attainable success. Let's face it, the odds of making the olympics are not in her favor. If that is her only goal, then it may be very painfull when and if she cannot make it. Hopefully, focussing on short term goals will allow her to look on the successes of the past, rather than the failures.
3) No matter what, there will be a lot of competitions before she can even seriously moving on to olympic competition. Without success in them, there is not even a possibility of higher competition. Hopefully going for the here and now will provide the extra focus needed for success.
4) It's just plain more fun. By taking it in small steps, she will have more fun than by viewing it as a hurdle to her true goal.
Not all of these are neccesarily applicable to her now, but they could prove helpfull in a few years when and if she starts to get really serious about gymnastics.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I was a very good figure skater until I was about 9. It was at the point that to go to the next level, it would have to go from an afterschool activity to the center of my life (practice everyday, etc).
I wanted to make the transition, and my parents said no. I still remember the conversation with my dad where he talked about how I was so great in so many ways and he didn't want to take my childhood away.
At the same, I was very angry. But looking back now (I am 26), I am very glad that my family made that decision for me. And honestly, I'm still a little proud of 8-year-old me, winning ribbons at the competitions .
Posts: 289 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Belle, reading your first post my reaction was if Emily is dedicated to being the best gymnast she can be then she (and you) will have to learn to live with bad sessions, but if it is a hobby done by a typical 8 year old then enjoyment should be the priority. Later posts have shown she is determined and wants to be the best that she can be.
This means she will get teased. As adults we can say how horrible the other children are, but really they are just jealous. While that doesn’t excuse them it is a fact of life. If Emily chooses the competitive route she will have to deal with it. A very harsh lesson for any child.
As for whether to tell her that the Olympics are not in her reach, I say no. Explain that it is very difficult to get there, or unlikely someone from a “normal” background (what ever that is) will make it, but remember a few do manage it. The most important thing is for her to be able to enjoy her childhood and if she has a hobby that is important to her to be able to do her best in it.
Remember though, that her current dream may be to be an Olympic gymnast but that may change. Even if she is certain of that now she may change her mind in a couple of years but may be embarrassed to say. Encourage her now, but let her know that if she changes her mind that is also fine by you.
By the way, I have no children and no experience with gymnastics so my post can be taken with a pinch of salt!
Posts: 169 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I had to deal with some teasing when I was younger, too. Well, still now, actually.
I used to try to think of a snarky comeback, usually in the form of an insult. But now I do something different. I offer a prayer for that person, that he/she may later realize their mistake and come to a better understanding.
Does this sound crazy to you? It did to me when my mom first proposed it.
Posts: 32 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:What do you do when your kids are focused on goals that you don't think are attinable?
You watch them very carefully and learn from their wisdom.
It doesn't make all that much difference whether or not you actually achieve a dream like the Olympics - it is just an instant of brief glory. What really matters is the pursuit of that dream - the effort that makes life worthwhile and transforms potential into expertise.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
First, I don't know that much about gymnastics, but it sounds to me that taping kids legs together and taping sticks to them is probably a very good training technique. It allows them to feel what it is like to do it right. Somehow the coach needs to communicate this to the kids. This isn't a punishment, it's a good way to learn the right technique. Maybe talking with the coach isn't a bad idea if some of the kids view this as humiliating then it won't be as effective as if they understand why she is doing it.
Second, Being teased as a kid is rough but its pretty normal. Who wasn't teased as a kid? Teaching your daughter to deal with the teasing in a healthy way is more important than protecting her.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Belle...I would really recommend against dissuading your daughter from any worthy goal that she sets for herself. If it is something se cannot do, for whatever reason, she will learn that for herself soon enough. And that's part of life, learning that not everyone can do everything, and that there are some things we would love to do that we just can't.
I was in a position growing up where, except for my mother and father, who always supported me, every time I talked about something I wanted to be or do or accomplish, someone (usually other family) would take it upon themselves to tell me that I couldn't do it. In my case, it was usually some variation on "girls don't do that". The consequence of that was that I became very unsure of my abilities and for a long time I was afraid to try anything. In fact, it is something I'm still working to overcome.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Last night was her first night back since all that happened and she did wonderfully and had a great time. It helped that they worked primarily on the beam where she does very well, and on the floor they were working tumbling and the coach asked Emily to do a round off to serve as an example for the rest of the class of how to do one right.
Then the coach told me and the other parents of the girls that the entire class had improved remarkably. Then she told us individually what each child needed to work on to move up. Her comment on Emily was - "Her strength and flexibility are both where they need to be - she's stronger than some of the level 5's. The only thing she needs to polish is some of the technique work on the bar."
I said nothing to the coach about the other night, Emily didn't seem to be bothered at the thought of going back so I didn't make an issue.
So I was happy and so was she. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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