posted
There is a paper and presentation due tomorrow. I am in a group, and we had a meeting planned for tonight to finish the paper and plan the presentation. The other two members, who are local, decided that instead of meeting tonight, they were going to meet tomorrow afternoon, while I'm at work an hour away.
Of course, they neglected to mention this to me, so not only do I not get input in to the shape of the final document (and they are flaky so I am not at all confident in their abilities to not flub it), they did not tell me until after I had left. So I just got a sixty mile roundtrip because they couldn't be bothered to mention they weren't going to show up.
*ticked* Am considering revenge options, all of which are petty and none of which will happen. Am also considering writing pointed e-mail, which may happen.
posted
I was once paired up for a presentation with two people who didn't speak good English. Ah, The History of Philosophy...
I just asked the teacher, sort of sideways, how much of the grade eacher person recieved was dependant on the other people's work. He sniggered at me, knowing exactly what I meant and said, "Don't worry about your grade, O."
So, I didn't. We sort of collectively tanked, but our notse and prep were all turned in separately, to show who did what.
Maybe you could ask your prof?
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
Olivet: I might. I have also considered asking them for the ten bucks in gas. *grin*
I really like group projects when everyone is serious about it. I love working in combination, but I hate this. They had seemed fairly responsible. Next time, only people who also live far away so they don't feel so free to blow off scheduled meetings.
I'm not happy about not being able to have input into the final project, but am now amused at the idea that they have to do all the work tomorrow themselves considering we planned on doing it tonight.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
That's why I always "volunteered" to finish up the projects for my groups. You know, "just email me your powerpoint slides or outlines and I'll turn them into stylish powerpoint slides."
But I was in Computer Science and I'm fairly sure that only a quarter of the class was even fluent in English...so if I wanted it done right, I had to do it myself.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I got stuck with a ton of group projects my last two years of school.
The worst was me and 3 friends got assigned to work with, wait for it, a 64 year old woman. Unusual, but no big deal, right? Wrong. This was a techical writing class, and we were all engineering majors. She was an English major. In addition to knowing next to nothing about the technical aspects of our project, she was convinced she should do all the writing since she was an English major.
It seemed like a reasonable proposition, and I'm not a micromanager, so I figured if she was passable that would work out fine. She wasn't passable. Turns out English was about her fourth major, and she'd failed her last writing class. Before that she'd been fired after trying her hand at journalism. Which in Butte, MT, where reporters hand in stories written in crayon, is quite a feat. Needless to say, I took over most of the writing and gave her the title of "Editor". I couldn't think of a diplomatic way to tell her she was an awful writer. She wasn't happy about the "promotion" and routinely argued with the rest of us about style choices, content, structures, fonts, and margins. Luckily we'd established on day one that all disagreements would be voted on, leaving her on the losing end of many 4-1 votes.
We ended up with the deadline for our semester project a week away, and needing to put all our graphics, charts, and cost/benefit analyses into a coherent form. Linda (the woman) wanted to have all of our stuff to herself so she could write the final report from home, where Word was set up the way she liked it. She then wanted to edit what we'd written, and turn it in without us seeing it again. Now what I didn't mention earlier was that she was as clueless at editing as she was at writing, and I'd taken to re-editing what she'd already edited. So there was no way I was letting hers be the last eyes on something I'd worked all semester on. I mean, I'd edited it to the point that nearly every sentence was mine (for continuity, and because the four of us agreed that I was the best writer). So we voted, of course, that if she insisted on doing the typing she do it in the computer lab, where the rest of us would be working. She stormed out, and I compiled and organized everything. We had a presentation at the end of it (during which I did all the talking - against my wishes).
The funny part is that about twenty percent of our grade was from our group members' evaluations of our performance. We were supposed to prepare them in private and submit them to the professor. Linda, being not-so-computer-savvy, saved hers on our network at campus where all our material was saved. She gave me and my best friend (who always sided with me if I disagreed with her) F's across the board. Complete with in-depth reviews of my ineptitude as a writer (although our 90 page report got a 94), my inability to work as a team, and numerous mentions of the fact that I kept poking her with my pitchfork. Seriously, the thing was full of inflammatory character assasinations. I was livid. We'd gotten her an A on the report while fighting her at every turn and she throws us to the fire. I wasn't near as hard on her as I could have been (I don't see any reason to try to bring someone down when they do it so well to themselves), and I was pissed she was trying to wreck my grade.
I talked to the professor, who assured me he knew all about our group dynamic (Linda had been complaining to him all semester, and he knew exactly what we were doing) and he would give her evaluation all the weight it deserved. Long story short (but not overly so), I got an A, she got a C.
I didn't confront her about the evaluation since I knew she'd never have class with me again, but I think the fact that I ignored her from that day forward clued her in to the fact that I was not happy with her. The only thing that still pisses me off is that she had no idea what her shortcoming were. As someone who believes in brutal assessment of talent, both for myself and my coworkers, I just didn't get how she could be so unaware. She honestly thought, grades and unemployment aside, that she was by far the best writer in our group. Thank god for democracy.
What were we talking about here? Oh yeah, Kat, that really stinks. I would definitely write a pissy email. Actually, I'd probably let them have it the next time I saw them, for not having even a shred of common courtesy and for squeezing you out. Depending on what you think of my story, mine might not be the advice to take however.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I never once assigned group projects. I honestly can't imagine grading them fairly and I don't see the pedagogical value of it unless one is purposefully pairing the best students with the worst and hoping that some sort of peer interaction will help the weakest ones while, by having to teach the subject, the strong ones would get even stronger.
But I could never figure out a way to make those kind of assignments "fair." And letting people choose their partners seemed even a worse idea.
Frankly, the very idea of group projects in a university setting gives me the heebie-jeebies.
I don't understand the worth of them.
And I actually work very well with others in my real job in real life. But there, it's not so much a question of grades as it is using each person's strengths to give the client the best product. In that scenario, we can put the pressure where it belongs, and there's also a good incentive for being good in the team setting since the folks are likely to be long-term colleagues.
But in classwork? Ugh. heebie-jeebies I tell yez.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Engineering professors loved them. Playing well with others is apparently important in my field, go figure. It was actually pretty useful learning how to work towards common goals when there's no chain of command. It's even more useful if you can find a way to get everyone to actually contribute.
But yeah, they were scary.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Depending on the major, I can see a very real benefit to group projects. I have a history major and I've never once had a group project in there- it just doesn't make any sense. But I've also started working on a business major and in almost every class we have semester long group projects of one type or another. While I've only ever worked in a bookstore, I would imagine that working with teams to finish projects is a very useful skill in the business world. It makes sense that business schools would try to develop these skills.
Additionally, I've started to like them. I've made far more friends in my classes this semester than I have the first two years of college simply because now I actually have to talk to people.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Every school project group I was ever a part of before I took a course in group process was horrible. Every group after that course was wonderful.
I'm sure it was just a coincidence.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was once a conceptual & systems designer for a proposed MMOG [Massively Multiplayer Online Game, for those not in with the lingo]. I was brought onto the team after posting some of my ideas for the game on their forums, and shortly thereafter became quite aware why.
These people didn't get anything done. We'd have meetings and I was the only one with my part of the design document done, so I'd start pitching ideas for their assigned segements of the design. Of course the whole thing went to hell in a handbasket, but I fortunately was very pleased with my creations and am directing them towards other things. *wink-wink, nudge-nudge*
Hmm. I suppose that scenario wasn't as bad in retrospect, seeing as I lost nothing from the exchange. Ah well, whatever. Posts: 43 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
kat...at the very least you should bill them for the gas you spent going all the way there and back.
I really hate group projects. Forget the fact that I don't always play well with others and have "if you want it done right, do it yourself" hardwired into my personality. As Bob said, there really is no way to grade group projects fairly.
I had a sociology of religion class in my last semester of university. The professor was very fond of in-class group work. She assigned work by tables. Being creatures of habit, we all generally sat at the same tables, so I got in the same group most of the time. Well, the others in my group got used to the fact that I always did all the reading, paid attention to lecture, and generally knew what I was doing in the class. They got lazy and started just expecting that I would know the answers to everything.
Doing everything myself got old really fast, so one day when we got a group assignment, I just sat there. Everybody looked at each other for a couple of minutes (round tables facilitate that really well), and then somebody said, "Well, we know lma did the reading." I lied. Told them I hadn't, and that they were on their own. I kind of felt bad lying, but enough was enough.
After class, the professor said something to me abuot how my group didn't do as well as we usually did. I explained the situation to her. She just kind of smiled and said she understood.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I also hate group projects. Write now I'm working with the Rotaract Club at my school trying to get together a Hunger Banquet. Leaving aside the fact that the officers felt no need to even start thinking about it until the beginning of this month (It's supposed to be on Nov. 2) our meetings are the most useless waste of time I can imagine. At the last one we went over the same three topics (the menu, whether or not to change the date, and the fact that the speaker couldn't come because nobody felt the need to contact him until 3 weeks before we wanted him to show up) 5 times. The first time we decided everything, the next 4 times we just repeated what was happening. After an hour and a half, I claimed a commitment and left.
I'm also the newly elected publicity chair (I say elected, what I mean is that there are two members of my committee and the other one is clueless) and find getting any information I need to be like pulling teeth. It usually takes about 3 days to get the most basic information from people. They just sort of threw me in and told me to sink or swim. I've never really done anything like this on my own before and I don't have the faintest clue where to even start. I have a pile of things I'm supposed to do, and not the faintest clue how to do them and every question I ask takes ages to get an answer to.
I've decided that I don't play well with others at all.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote: I really like group projects when everyone is serious about it.
Then you don't like group projects at all. I never had one that didn't end like that in some ways, if the group was bigger than two.
Posts: 3526 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I sent an e-mail to them yesterday that ended with "I wish I had known it was cancelled - I wouldn't have driven up." That's not too snippy, right? I hope not. I wasn't going for the full-on smackdown, but more like an expression of frustration and the reason I am shoving the rest onto them. They both missed the first made up deadline we'd agreed on, so I knew there was a possibility of being blown off. I decided before I left that it was worth it to keep the appointment even if they didn't show up. I thought I was calm, then - I did have to pay for gas, but I didn't miss out anything fun that was planned. FHE was going to be kickball. *wrinkles nose*
So, I got this this morning from the girl. I'm glad I didn't get really upset. I still think it was inconsiderate, but it sounds like flakiness instead of deliberate blowing off.
quote:I am so sorry you came all the way up from Irving! I know that is a horrendous drive! Somehow Aaron and I both thought that we were meeting Tuesday. I'm kicking myself for not staying in Denton until 4:30 today, because I just missed your e-mail.
I've been very sick for the past few days and I went straight to bed after class this afternoon. I just now received your messages. I would call you but I'm afraid that it's too late tonight. I feel so badly about this!
When Aaron and I talked today (we have class together from 1:30-4:20), we decided to divide up the work and mostly work from home. Really the meeting is just so we can make sure we're on the same page about our prototype and to go over our presentation. You mentioned before that your work makes it hard for you to get to Denton, so I wasn't expecting you to be able to meet on the fly.
Is there a good time that I can call you tomorrow so we can "teleconference" our presentation ideas? I am really interested in your insight and want to make sure we include information you want to discuss. I don't want you to feel like you're totally in the dark when you come to class.
You can call me tonight or tomorrow. Please let me know how I can help.
posted
I don't think your closing was too snippy at all.
It's good that they at least want your input. It's frustrating that you can't be there, but at least you'll be able to include your work as well.
Posts: 3801 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
I did talk to my professor, somewhat obliquely. She mentioned that we get any grade less than an A on a paper, then we can rewrite it. In the case of group projects, we can rewrite it individually. So, everything will be fine. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I had I think 2 group writing projects and it was only good for getting to know the other people. I suppose I was lucky they were not as flaky as your group.
On the other hand. I am very pesimistic about the people who work around me. I hear constant stories of: "I was the only one who worked on any of the tasks decided at the last meeting, everyone else said they were too busy," or "the head of that group in charge of X didn't know if it was possible to configure X to do <something simple>." Etc.
So maybe group projects are really about training you for future flakiness. I've certainly found if I want to do something, I'm the only one I can count on getting it done.
However again, in computer programming, they have what is called "extreme programming" where 2 people work on the same thing. It is really cool because you can get a lot done. It is like magic. I think it works because the people usually care about what they are doing.
I always love having someone else look at my work. It makes me feel more confident about it, at the very least. Then sometimes, what we create exceeds my expectations.
Posts: 1209 | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think group projects are one of the few things in school that actually prepare you for life in the real world of business. The bickering, backstabbing and incompetence is nothing different than you will see in your first job. The only difference is that your boss doesn't let you re-write the paper if you can't get the group to do a good job.
Posts: 317 | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:I think group projects are one of the few things in school that actually prepare you for life in the real world of business. The bickering, backstabbing and incompetence is nothing different than you will see in your first job. The only difference is that your boss doesn't let you re-write the paper if you can't get the group to do a good job.
The difference is that in the real world you have a boss who will be mediating your performance because it directly reflects on him, as opposed to a conglomeration of equal employees who get to do all the planning and execution themselves and aren't answerable to anyone until the project deadline hits.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
What never ceases to amaze me is when I assign projects, my students always beg to work in groups. (I think they think it will be less work.) I generally either say no, or a conditional yes ("Yes, but then you must not only do A, but also B and C.")
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote: The difference is that in the real world you have a boss who will be mediating your performance because it directly reflects on him, as opposed to a conglomeration of equal employees who get to do all the planning and execution themselves and aren't answerable to anyone until the project deadline hits.
In an ideal world, probably : but I can assure you my boss is not that way. He doesn't care who does the job as long as it's done, and since I'm the junior here I'm in the most instable position so I'm the one to blame if something isn't done.
Posts: 3526 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Group projects in school are so arbitrary compared to a real work environment. You're told to "collaborate" on something, which usually involves writing a paper. Since everyone's in the same class, everyone tends to have the same specialty. So everyone congregates around the computer screen when it's time to write (because everyone has to be involved somehow) and everyone becomes an editor.
Whereas a team project at work more likely involves someone from each specialty, each taking the part of the project that falls under his or her jurisdiction and completing that part. There can be meetings before and during the project to discuss everything together, but then everybody has a task that only they're responsible for. Your work still has to mesh well, but at least there's a point to the collaboration.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:The difference is that in the real world you have a boss who will be mediating
I work in education, and there "meddling" is a more appropriate word, and I think it is because here, bosses can't stand to have a juniors out perform them. Not my boss thankfully. But I've seen many people have this problem.
Posts: 1209 | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Taunt]](graemlins/taunt.gif)
![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
