posted
Creepy... Extremely creepy. As they are just cubs and probably don't know anything other than what their parents spoonfed them.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote: You've got to be taught to hate and fear You've got to be taught from ear to ear It's got to be drummed in your dear little ear You've got to be carefully taught
You've got to be taught to be afraid Of people whose eyes are oddly made And people whose skin is a different shade You've got to be carefully taught
You've got to be taught before it's too late Before you are six or seven or eight To hate all the people your relatives hate You've got to be carefully taught
I don't actually believe that's entirely true, but it certainly helps to produce that true-blue axiomatic hate.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
The picture can be found under the link "Forum" on the girls' main page. They are modeling some t-shirts for a company called "Aryan Wear". You'll know which one when you see it.
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
That just makes me sad Those poor kids don't even have a chance to decide for themselves. They're being brain washed by their parents and aren't being exposed to other points of view in an environment where they can make their own choice. They may never get that chance. If there's any reason I could ever be against home schooling, this is it.
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Got that right, Synesthesia. And a very strong argument against allowing parents to keep their kids from ~1400hours per year of exposure to other kids with different beliefs at public schools via home or private schooling.
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posted
Question: how is what they're doing any different than most of mainstream rap, hip hop, and television?
It's ok for black people to call white people crackers and honkies (honkeys?) and basically rag on them for absurd stereotypes, to indict them for crimes of the past and to promote continued fear, but not ok for the white people to do the same? At least they aren't calling black people the N word.
This country has overcompensated for racism against black americans in petty, meaningless ways to the point of nausea. Congratulations, we can't say "n****r" on TV without it getting censored (unless we're black), we can't insult black people (unless we're black), but cracker, honky, jap, chink, fag, queer, dyke, and other miscellaneous pejoratives just...magically slip through the cracks?
It was earlier this year that Miss Cleo of New York City's Hot 97 aired the extremely racist, brutally outrageous clip in which she (a black woman) and her co-hosts (black men) repeatedly insulted asians, to the point of saying "Man, I'm gonna start shooting asians." Their punishment was...a two week suspension. Gee, I hope they learned their lesson. If the hosts had been white and the subjects black, their punishment would have been ten times as harsh. For some reason, it is continually okay to be a racist if you're not white, while white people are continually condemned for the slightest slip that might indicate they aren't completely fair minded about race.
Prussian Blue seems like a pretty natural reaction to me, especially the way they (and other white power musical groups) motivate: turn the fear into hate. American History X illustrated this point as well, in a reasonable way: where else are scared white kids going to turn?
It just seems silly that people are so shocked by this. The double standard always has and always will bother me.
Oh, and for the record, I'm not white.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote: You've got to be taught to hate and fear You've got to be taught from ear to ear It's got to be drummed in your dear little ear You've got to be carefully taught
posted
First of all, it's not really mainstream rap in a way, and second of all, both of these things disturb me, but somehow a pair of little girls singing about race wars scares me even more... I'm not white either, but it's not as if they are even acting on their own you know... They have only had one perspective on things, not much of an outside force, just constant, "your race is superior, your skin is your uniform" junk rammed down their throats all the time.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: Especially where she talks about how courageous the girls are to play in venues where they are booed and protested.
I haven't read that entry, but do you have a better term for it? Sounds courageous to me, whether or not it's misguided.
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She's not delusional for saying their behavior was courageous (which you rightfully point out that it was). She's delusional because she paints them as victims. They don't get why anyone would have a problem with this music and she's shocked when their appearance at a community fair is cancelled.
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quote:It's ok for black people to call white people crackers and honkies (honkeys?)
*looks around*
*fails to see anyone saying that's OK*
*wonders why it's relevant*
Indeed... as Honky or Cracker as terms seems... softer somehow than the N word... Maybe because it doesn't have the history of people dangling from trees to back that up. I don't know... I'd rather do away with all slurs myself. I hate them.
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posted
Synaesthesia basically just summarized why it's relevant, Dag.
Honky/Honkey/Cracker is softer somehow than the N word? They're all racial slurs used to degrade and debase people. The N word may have a history of people dangling from trees to back it up, but that's what it was: history. I'd be a lot more afraid in this day and age as a white kid growing up in a black community than as a black kid growing up in a white community. We're okay with movies called "White Men Can't Jump," but you can bet your ass there'd be a riot if they made one called "Black Men Can't Read."
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posted
But there's a difference between those two things... It's hard to explain what it is, but it's there... One is a stupid stereotype, but a joke. The other, just plan offensive.
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quote:And a very strong argument against allowing parents to keep their kids from ~1400hours per year of exposure to other kids with different beliefs at public schools via home or private schooling.
I have to disagree with this-- in some areas, kids have their parents' beliefs reinforced on the schoolyard as much as at home. And in any case, most home-schoolers don't do it in order to brainwash their kids into non-mainstream ideas.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: Question: how is what they're doing any different than most of mainstream rap, hip hop, and television?
It's ok for black people to call white people crackers and honkies (honkeys?) and basically rag on them for absurd stereotypes, to indict them for crimes of the past and to promote continued fear, but not ok for the white people to do the same? At least they aren't calling black people the N word.
This country has overcompensated for racism against black americans in petty, meaningless ways to the point of nausea. Congratulations, we can't say "n****r" on TV without it getting censored (unless we're black), we can't insult black people (unless we're black), but cracker, honky, jap, chink, fag, queer, dyke, and other miscellaneous pejoratives just...magically slip through the cracks?
It was earlier this year that Miss Cleo of New York City's Hot 97 aired the extremely racist, brutally outrageous clip in which she (a black woman) and her co-hosts (black men) repeatedly insulted asians, to the point of saying "Man, I'm gonna start shooting asians." Their punishment was...a two week suspension. Gee, I hope they learned their lesson. If the hosts had been white and the subjects black, their punishment would have been ten times as harsh. For some reason, it is continually okay to be a racist if you're not white, while white people are continually condemned for the slightest slip that might indicate they aren't completely fair minded about race.
Prussian Blue seems like a pretty natural reaction to me, especially the way they (and other white power musical groups) motivate: turn the fear into hate. American History X illustrated this point as well, in a reasonable way: where else are scared white kids going to turn?
It just seems silly that people are so shocked by this. The double standard always has and always will bother me.
Oh, and for the record, I'm not white.
I can see where you're coming from, but some of us (*ahem* me) is also shocked and appalled by the racism and ignorance displayed by blacks in the mainstream media. Even if it's mere ignorance, it still speaks tons about that person's victim mentality, and their automatic suspicions against white people. Kanye West, in his latest album, claimed the government "administered AIDS." To me, that is ignorance that should be called on, but isn't. (Oh wait, we did call him on his "Bush doesn't care about black people" comment.)
So you are right in that people should be more critical of the mainstream rap and hiphop artists that preach hate. I wouldn't claim they're the same, however. I think blacks have suffered (and continue to suffer) hardships that these stupid little girls and their parents can't possibly imagine. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that minorities living in poverty need to step it up if they want to see changes, instead of continually blaming "the Man." But for these White Nationalists to preach so much paranoia when it is white people (specifically men, which goes nicely with their traditional beliefs) who are in power, and will probably remain in power for some time to come... it's just uncalled for in every way imaginable. At least those black rappers who grew up in the ghetto have somewhat of a difficult time, even if their rage is misdirected.
posted
This is just sad. And honestly, what scares me more is that most of the people in their community--the girls' schoolmates, at least--seem to support them. Jeez . . . less and less lone whackos and more and more whole groups . . .
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Joldo: This is just sad. And honestly, what scares me more is that most of the people in their community--the girls' schoolmates, at least--seem to support them. Jeez . . . less and less lone whackos and more and more whole groups . . .
And worse of all they all congragate together, patting each other on the back. Confirming each others distorted point of view. Very depressing for me as I do not wish to be shot at by teenage girls. Like being stabbed to death by a kitten...
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quote:And in any case, most home-schoolers don't do it in order to brainwash their kids into non-mainstream ideas.
I don't know about that's true, and I'm not a fan of mainstream ideas or homeschool.
With respect to these girls, it shouldn't be that surprising. I don't feel powerfully any way. Let them do their thing and hope nobody gets hurt.
I agree with Kayne West's comments regarding Bush and black people, but it's not as if Bush is indifferent to black people exclusively, rather, I think he is just kind of indifferent to people he doesn't know or can't relate with, which includes a large gamut and black people are a subset of that group. And in his defense, the needs of texas oil millionaires aren't too high on my priorities either, so it's not as if I'm much better.
posted
im not so much shocked that these girls believe what they do. I am disgusted..but not shocked. There are plenty of people out their that feel their race is "superior" over others. What shocks me most though is even if the girls/family believe that they are better....how can they trapse about ostentaciously flaring those shirts...That made me sick to my stomach seeing that. Its one thing to be ignorant about classes and superiority...its another to blatently wear something that could seriously offend...ooo say...everyone??
sigh
its amazing what parents can do to their children...
Posts: 82 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I always find it funny that Hitler in no way corresponded to this Superior Race ideal that he and these white supremacists push, but he's still a hero to them.
Funny in a rather morbid, not funny way, of course.
Posts: 609 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:So you are right in that people should be more critical of the mainstream rap and hiphop artists that preach hate. I wouldn't claim they're the same, however. I think blacks have suffered (and continue to suffer) hardships that these stupid little girls and their parents can't possibly imagine. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that minorities living in poverty need to step it up if they want to see changes, instead of continually blaming "the Man." But for these White Nationalists to preach so much paranoia when it is white people (specifically men, which goes nicely with their traditional beliefs) who are in power, and will probably remain in power for some time to come... it's just uncalled for in every way imaginable. At least those black rappers who grew up in the ghetto have somewhat of a difficult time, even if their rage is misdirected.
My point (I think) is that NO racial slurs are ever more justified than others: no amount of historical or modern inequity merits the use of slurs, in either direction. This is why it bothers me so much that some are censored and considered so much more vulgar and taboo than others: to me, a slur is a slur, and if you use one, you're a bigot, regardless of what reasoning and justification you think you may have. Bigotry is wrong, regardless of what "justification" someone may feel they have. I therefore feel that it makes no sense to come down so hard on these kids, when their crimes are no greater (in my eyes) than the crimes perpetrated daily by rap, hip hop, and black american comedy.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Actually, it's still a bit different though... It's not as simple as this person is a bigot. Suppose you are someone who is gay that uses the word "queer?" Are you doing this out of self hatred, or to take back this phrase from those that use it against you? It's not that simple... and it's made more disturbing by the fact that it's children singing things like this and not grown people who have whatever motive (usually money) for doing what they do.
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Most people I know who homeschool do it because they are dissatisfied with the public schools available to them.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Well... I object to the term brainwash. Educate, or instruct, would be more appropriate. I have no problem with teaching non-mainstream ideas, and yes, many homeschoolers do it to shield their children from objectionable ideas that are the mainstream in the school system.
However, non-mainstream usually does not equal hateful, bigoted and violent. Therein lies the difference.
Posts: 609 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I'd want to homeschool if I had kids... School can be a jungle sometimes. But, I doubt I'd teach them how to be racist biggest. I'd probably make them all have gardens and listen to Japanese music in between reading Wrinkle in Time for the thousandth time.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Most people I know who homeschool do it because they are dissatisfied with the public schools available to them.
What does that mean? Does it mean that they object to the values and the priorities practiced in their public schools. Ketchupqueen, like I said before, I'm not a big fan of mainstream ideas or homeschooling, but I think that this statement:
quote:And in any case, most home-schoolers don't do it in order to brainwash their kids into non-mainstream ideas.
is suspect, to say the least.
quote:Well... I object to the term brainwash. Educate, or instruct, would be more appropriate. I have no problem with teaching non-mainstream ideas, and yes, many homeschoolers do it to shield their children from objectionable ideas that are the mainstream in the school system.
That's a fascinating dress, Dh. Educate is from the Latin ducere which means to lead, e or ex, out. Education, properly understood, is the leading out of the soul's knowledge, not the imposition or indoctrination of anything. This is tricky work, and I understand-- even if I don't agree with-- parents wanting to do this without the public schools influence.
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posted
I am scandalized. That book is a classic. But Wind in the Door and Swiftly Tilting Planet are better. I'd read those if I were not already reading 50 books.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Whenever something like this happens, why do people always assume it is spreading hatred?
I'm inclined to think that if a given message is clearly wrong, expressing it publicly only makes it more obvious how wrong it is. I would suspect these girls make more people aware of the dangers of racism than they actually convert people to racist beliefs.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:Actually, it's still a bit different though... It's not as simple as this person is a bigot. Suppose you are someone who is gay that uses the word "queer?" Are you doing this out of self hatred, or to take back this phrase from those that use it against you?
Groups using slurs directed at themselves are an entirely different story, but the inequities are still there. Example: homosexuals object vigorously to the use of the word "gay" as a pejorative (e.g. "Oh man, that movie was so gay" where "gay" is intended to mean "bad" or similar). They seem to forget that homosexual wasn't the original use of the word, and that it is no more "their" word than it is anyone else's. The same is true for black people and the word "n****r" and feminists and the word "c*nt": while I understand the reasoning and satisfaction in turning a pejorative into a badge of pride, all it does is encourage further use of the word, and it's silly to claim that any word is "your" word, and that it's only inoffensive coming from certain people.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Makes sense... The word "gay" used like that tends to annoy me, but I like the word Queer as it can describe all sorts of difference and deviance... Still, it does make sense, as a matter of respect not to use phrases like the n word if you are not black. I refuse to use that word myself. It is an ugly word. I have never liked it.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I used non-mainstream because I thought someone might pick on me if I said "crazy". I should have said "crazy". Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: That's a fascinating dress, Dh. Educate is from the Latin ducere which means to lead, e or ex, out. Education, properly understood, is the leading out of the soul's knowledge, not the imposition or indoctrination of anything. This is tricky work, and I understand-- even if I don't agree with-- parents wanting to do this without the public schools influence.
(italics mine)
Indoctrination occurs in public schools, too. Recycling is unconditionally good! Global warming! Sex! Just because you happen to agree with the agenda, doesn't mean it isn't there.
And, to top it all off, most public schools do a really poor job teaching. They are so caught up in regulating the teachers, that the teachers have little chance to actually teach.
Indoctrination and little education in the public schools: that's why I will be homeschooling.
quote:Educate is from the Latin ducere which means to lead, e or ex, out. Education, properly understood, is the leading out of the soul's knowledge, not the imposition or indoctrination of anything.
It doesn't really matter what the Latin meant. The English word educate is commonly used to mean things that could also be called indoctrination.
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Those poor kids don't even have a chance to decide for themselves. They're being brain washed by their parents and aren't being exposed to other points of view in an environment where they can make their own choice. They may never get that chance. If there's any reason I could ever be against home schooling, this is it.
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