posted
Ok, first of all, pleeeeese understand this is not your typical "hmm...have you tried white noise?" type of issue.
Space Space Baby is not sleeping during the day and evening for more than about 30 minutes at a stretch, even when held and not put down in his bed. Space Space Baby feels like sh*t, as do I. I've been to the lactation counselor and everything seems fine there, and the dr. has checked him over from head to toe twice and will do so again this week. We have tried EVERYTHING we can think of, as well as everything various family members can think of. The child actually *fights* sleep at 3 weeks old. You can rock him, his eyes will start to close, and then he forces them back open. Then, if you do get him to sleep, you're lucky to get 30 minutes of sleep (a lot of the time it's more like 15-20).
He does have a slightly longer stretch of sleep at night - sometimes 3-6 hours. Or sometimes only 2. Also, normally when he does sleep it's a "poor" sleep, not your typical sleep-through-anything newborn sleep - he wakes very easily. Any unique suggestions or insights would be appreciated. Thanks, guys.
space opera
[ November 17, 2005, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: Space Opera ]
Posts: 2578 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
How's the tummy doing? Gas? Tried Gripe Water? Ginger?
Does he get enough sunlight? Babies exposed to more natural sunlight sleep longer, apparently. Do you maintain a "natural" light cycle for him? Light during the day, but make sure he's only exposed to low light starting at twilight? That really worked for a friend of mine whose little girl wouldn't sleep, although it's harder with other kids around.
I wish I had more advice. (((hugs))) Mine fights sleep, too, but at least once she's down, she's down.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Tummy is good. No sign at all of any troubles, and I've even tried cutting dairy from my diet.
The sunlight is a good idea, but I'm pretty sure he gets tons of it. Our front room has one wall full of floor to ceiling windows with the topmost ones uncovered, so he gets a nice natural progression throughout the day.
This is one of my last-ditch efforts to find something that works for him before I give in and wean him. I just can't handle the time and effort it takes to breastfeed coupled with his constant high-needs. Even pro-breastfeeding friends have asked me if I need to. I know I'd regret it, but it's driving me crazy to never have a break.
posted
I don't have a baby... so my advice is from the last episode of Lost I saw. Take it for what it's worth.
The baby wouldn't go to sleep, so Locke wrapped him up (swaddled) and talked about how babies like to be restricted. It worked. But TV is "perfect."
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Swaddling helped mine when they were little - up to about six weeks old, so it might work for Space Space Baby.
I know how hard it is to deal with a child that just won't sleep - my heart goes out to you.
What worked for mine was rice cereal in the bottle just before bed but she was older than yours, I know you don't want to introduce rice cereal so early. Wish I could be more help. *hugs*
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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We have swaddled that child six ways to Tuesday! We've also tried adding a hat and socks under his sleeper.
This morning I was so desperate that after nursing him I had Mr. Opera give him a 4 oz. bottle of formula. Space Space Baby drank almost all of it, slept for 30 minutes...then promptly woke up. If I hadn't given birth to him I'd think he was some kind of android-baby sleep experiment gone waaaay wrong!
posted
I am curious as to what you do when the baby wakes up and how you help the baby sleep. Since you have already checked him over with his doctor and he doesn't have earaches, etc., I don't see any harm with letting him learn to soothe himself to sleep. I'd begin a very short routine, right before you put him to bed (like two or three steps). Minimize your comforting of him (still comfort him, but in small ways). For example, after putting him in his crib, sit down in a chair near him, but don't touch him. After a minute of his screaming, reach in and put your hand on his leg for about 30 seconds or some other small thing to decrease the intensity of his screams. After 30 seconds, remove your hand and wait 2 minutes, if he is still screaming, put your hand on him again. Keep doing this at greater and greater intervals until he is quiet. You can leave the room when you think it is safe. Gradually, over days, continue to minimize your comforting; let him learn to soothe himself. You are trying to balance letting him know that you are there and available if he really needs you, but also that he can calm himself down as well.
If this doesn't work, then he may need more extensive tests.
Posts: 264 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Yeah, I wouldn't try that until about 3 months.
I wish I knew some magic thing that would help. I didn't sleep unless held for the first year and a half of life. Literally. *sigh*
Are they sure that there's nothing wrong that's making him hurt? It just sounds like misery and pain to me. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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My mom has in my babybook that the first time I slept for more than 4 hours in a row was when I was weaned, at 15 months, I'm not sure how she did it, I think my mom needs some prize for that one. My parents tried basically everything you listed.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Do you sling him? That way he could sleep as you go about your business, at least during the day. Some studies suggest that babies who are slung during the day will also sleep better at night.
posted
He sounds a bit young, but is it possible he is teething? My grandfather swore by a bit of whisky rubbed on the gums.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Boon
unregistered
posted
Boo had a lot of trouble sleeping at first. What worked for him was swaddling his top half and leaving his legs free but covered, and then either holding him (most of the time) or putting him in his carseat to sleep. I know it's not good for them to sit in it so much, but it's much worse for me to not get enough sleep to function.
If you need a sling, I'll send you mine. It's a Maya, black, 100% cotton and recently washed. I even havve the instructional DVD.
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Mine slept in her carseat after the bassinet but before she would sleep in her crib. It was just too much space in her big crib and at that point she didn't want swaddling anymore. She did need some constriction however, so the car seat was the perfect solution. We wanted her to get used to her crib so we would put the carrier car seat in her crib and then put her in it. It was also helpful since whenever she was in the car, she would fall asleep so we could just transport her to the crib. I want to say that this lasted for maybe a month when she was about 3 months old, but it may have even been before that.
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I've always wondered if babies get nightmares. I mean, why else would they actually fight going to sleep? Sleeping is so fun, and natural. I dont know. My mom had issues like this with my little brother, to the point where she would have to fight getting truly angry with the little bugger for messing up her sleep schedule so bad. Apparently, one of the things that worked for her was making a little barley herb pillow with lavender in it, that she would heat up a little bit and slip it into his swaddling with him. He loved that thing. And he always smelled so good! Anyways, the scent seemed to help calm him, and the warmth lulled him into sleeping for longer periods of time.
Posts: 499 | Registered: Mar 2004
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I'll ask the nurses if they have any advice/ideas.
Have you tired having Mr. Opera put him down with you out of the room? Aerin went through a phase where she would get overstimulated if I was around and wouldn't sleep if I was there.
If you do end up pumping, I highly recommend the Medela Symphony. You can rent one for about $60/month or buy one for around $1,200.00 (I'm renting).
I'm sorry y'all are having such a hard time.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Space Opera, I spoke to all of my nurses and my lactation consultant (who is also a NICU nurse) about Space Space Baby. None of them had ever heard of a 3-week term baby who fought sleep. Every one of them suggested switching him over to a bottle for at least 1 feeding so that you can get some sleep.
Several of the nurses and the lactation consultant wondered how often you are feeding him. Feedings every hour-and-a-half can be too much for some babies - they don't get the feeling of fullness that lets them sleep soundly and they don't get the empty belly that wakes them up. They recommended that you try feeding every 3 hours. Aerin is on a 3-hour schedule and it works for her, even with her reflux. Even if she fusses for 90 minutes after a feed, she always gets at least an hour of good sleep.
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posted
Hmm...I would disagree with that feeding advice for a 3-week term baby, which is a very different situation from a premie.
However, you have made me think of something which is related: Make sure the baby is nursing as long as he wants to on one side, as long as he is actively swallowing and sucking, before switching to the other side. That will ensure that the baby gets enough hindmilk to satisfy his hunger. Sometimes if you switch sides too quickly, the baby will get too much foremilk, which fills the tummy, but is thin and watery and doesn't satisfy hunger well. Letting the baby decide when he is done on one side before switching can ensure that the baby gets enough of the more filling hindmilk to satisfy his hunger, and may help him sleep longer.
This gives a good description of foremilk and hindmilk.
Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Have you tried one of those vibrating bouncy seats? I second the gripe water and suggestions of kq's, romany's and mrs.m. Will Space Baby go to sleep in the car? We used to have to drive around for hours and hours and hours. It's amazing what you'll do.
And if you have to stop breast feeding, it's not the end of the world. I had to stop and felt so badly about it---GUILT. My Dr. finally told me that "there is enough guilt in the world" and to let it go. For some reason, that helped. All three of my babies have been bottle fed and are just fine.
Hugs, prayers and well wishes for some much needed rest.
Posts: 697 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Most of the info is aimed at older children learning to sleep through the night, but it's supposed to be helpful for newborns too.
I second what kq said - it sounds possible that despite the repeated physicals, something is really bothering poor Space Space Baby. In your postion I migh seek out a second opinion or a reputable alternative care professional. *shrugs* Anything's worth a shot at this point, your life must be crazy!
Posts: 471 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Space Opera, you might also want to consult with a La Leche League Leader. I know you've said you have seen a lactation consultant, but some times LLL Leaders may think of things that the LC hasn't, just cause she is coming at the problem from a different perspective.
It's certainly worth a try. Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Hmm...I would disagree with that feeding advice for a 3-week term baby, which is a very different situation from a premie.
I did mention that the baby is a 3-week term baby. One of the nurses and the lactation consultant mentioned that that advice is contrary to what La Leche teaches, but that they've had many cases where it worked for the (term) baby.
BTW, I'm pumping as I'm writing.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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I dunno about slinging SpaceSpaceBaby, SpaceOpera. Next thing ya know, he'll wanna be catapulted from a trebuchet. And if you think you've got problems now, wait until neighbors start complaining about the noise ya make shooting him out of a cannon.
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Ela, much as I respect you and your experience, I've actually known a baby for whom that advice worked. A term baby. Who had not really slept well in a month. They switched to two bottles (pumped milk) a day, the mommy felt better, the baby was fuller, and they're all alive and happy. SO doesn't have to try it, of course, but it could work.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Space Opera, I wish I had some advice. We're still having problems getting BabyDot to sleep on a schedule and we're closing in on nine months of it.
Perhaps a lullabye? Doesn't work for my daughter, but then again, with my voice...
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Space Space Baby, please watch for the mailman while mommy sleeps, I sent you a package yesterday, coming from just a few hours away.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Every time I see this thread title I think of the ending of 2001 A Space Odyssey. Which, now that I think about it, might be a good way to put the baby to sleep. Works on lots of other people...
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I just have to say that just because somethiing could work, doesn't make it a good thing to do. I mean, opium would work, but that would be wrong. I'm not so much comparing the pumped breastmilk idea as saying "It could work" doesn't make every idea OK.
I love this baby's screen name too. I don't have any advice, but I'll keep your family in my prayers. It sounds like a really tough time and I hope you can figure out what's troubling your babykins. Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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Have you tried massaging his feet? I'm not sure why but it will frequently calm a baby down and help them go to sleep. I've seen this work on babies that are a little bit older and get too wound up to sleep. It's at least worth a try.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Oh I really don't like that man! I am refraining from saying what I really want to since this is a family show. I really don't have any advice, only what we did with Leslie. She also wouldn't sleep for any length of time and one night in a moment of desperation I laid her in bed next to me. She slept for 4 hours. Then she slept in my bed with us until she was 9 months old. An unfortunate trade off but I did get some sleep. Not good sleep but again I was very desperate! We won't even go into having to get her out of our bed and into her crib! I really think that for some babies it's just too big at first. I wish you luck with your little one.
Posts: 601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Ela is right about the different properties of breastmilk and the importance of letting baby nurse to completion on one side before trying the next. Those last bits are the part that really fills 'em up . . .
Nathan slept abominably for about the first year. He'd start to drift off and then jerk and scream. Unless he slept on top of me, or cradled in my arms. I thought it was maybe related to all the trauma of multiple hospitalizations, life-saving interventions, invasive procedures, but maybe not . . .
What did I do?
Partial bundling helped. Slinging helped. Tie a blanket to a door handle, swaddle baby and lie down in blanket, pick up untied end and swing slowly and gently back and forth. Dim lights, very soft soothing music (think Enya or celtic harp) - not just at sleep time - during wake time also. Babies overstimulate VERY easily, and calming things down at bed time just may not work, they may need it to be very calm and soothing during their waking hours, too.
Basically, I just decided that I needed to let go of all the non-essentials such as clean houses, etc., and sleep in short bursts when he did, and let him sleep with me.
My family disagreed, of course, but he's turned out fine. He's 11 and sleeps very deeply and on his own. *grin*
Hang in there and hugs and sleep coming to you . . .
Posts: 5609 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. romany, yep...one thing Space Space Baby does like is the sling; it's actually where he sleeps best!
Our dr. has been concerned because SSB still hasn't gotten back up to his birth weight (he'll be a month old on Friday) so he's been diagnosed as failure to thrive. The other week he seemed to be gaining well, but we found out he hadn't gained at all this week. Of course, the jaundice at first complicated the weight gain because SSB was so lethargic.
They're running lots of tests and having us supplement with an ounce or so of formula after he breastfeeds in order to get some more calories in him. The ped. who looked at him suspects he might have what they call "silent reflux" due to some of his symtoms. Tomorrow they'll be doing an upper GI and starting him on meds. Right now he's sleeping in an inclined bed and sleeping better and more soundly than he's slept for about a week! Hopefully we'll have some answers soon.
Hang in there, Space Opera. Hope Space Space Baby will feel better soon, and that there are no serious problems!!!
Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by dawnmaria: I really don't have any advice, only what we did with Leslie. She also wouldn't sleep for any length of time and one night in a moment of desperation I laid her in bed next to me. She slept for 4 hours. Then she slept in my bed with us until she was 9 months old. An unfortunate trade off but I did get some sleep. Not good sleep but again I was very desperate! We won't even go into having to get her out of our bed and into her crib! I really think that for some babies it's just too big at first. I wish you luck with your little one.
Same here. At just a few weeks old, our first fought sleep like she now fights her younger brother. She was also very, very "high-needs" - she couldn't stand to be put down, would never sleep for more than half an hour on her own, etc., etc.
After a while, my wife just pulled her into bed with us. Everyone got a lot more sleep. This, the co-sleeper, and the sling made our lives bearable. Our daughter even slept better during the day. Getting her out of the crib was a fiasco, but it was an acceptable trade-off. We've done that with our other kids, too, and they had a much easier time than the first one.
Of course, our first one - almost six now - still cries when she hears any sort of beeping sound at all. She bursts into tears every time the fry alarm at McDonald's goes off. *sigh* She's a special kid, in an "everything scares me" sort of way. Looking back, I'm not at all surprised by her behavior as an infant.
Anyway, ignore any horror stories people may tell you about sleeping with your baby. If neither you nor your hubby has a sleeping disorder, you're fine. Mommies don't roll over on their babies for the same reason they don't roll off the bed: even asleep, you're aware of what's around you. If you don't trust your partner to refrain from rolling over on the kid, get a body pillow. (They're great for your back in any case.) Make sure there's a co-sleeper on your side of the bed, and a crib when they outgrow it.
Our kids - even our "everything scares me" oldest - didn't have any serious problems with being left with strangers. In fact, it was much, much easier for us to leave them than it was for other parents to leave theirs. Don't worry about overattachment, whatever that means. Kids detach themselves when they feel like it.
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I just can't handle the time and effort it takes to breastfeed coupled with his constant high-needs. Even pro-breastfeeding friends have asked me if I need to. I know I'd regret it, but it's driving me crazy to never have a break.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Take it for what it's worth.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Cannons? Cool! ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
I am refraining from saying what I really want to since this is a family show. 
