Hey, thanks. It's good to be around again. I seem to be coming and going a lot these days, so we'll see how long it lasts this time.
quote:Verily, I wrote my post before reading yours,
Ah, okay. I wasn't sure. Didn't mean to sound confrontational; I thought maybe you were responding to my explanation and had just missed part of it.
For my part--and this is in response to the idea that people are equating "fat" with "ugly"--I think our society does place too much emphasis on being "thin". Thin is not necessarily healthy, and as a matter of fact, in lean times, it's the thin people who die first. Those of us with a bit of excess on us can last a little longer.
And I certainly do think people should be free to choose. If somebody honestly doesn't mind being overweight, then I'm not going to cast judgement on them for that. It's their body, so they are the ones who have the right to choose what to do with it. The fact that I personally feel nasty walking around with my excess and am attempting to adjust my diet and have joined a gym in an effort to shed said excess does not mean I think people who prefer to keep theirs are necessarily ugly or are morally bad people.
But there are a lot of people who are overweight, and complain about being overweight, yet never do anything about it. If you don't like being overweight, then there are things that can be done. And whatever the miracle pill snake-oil salesmen tell you, the only way to lose weight is by some combination of eating less and exercising more. Granted that it's easier for some people than for others, so some people will have to work harder at it in order to get real results. But either way, you have to actually work at it to get any results. Nobody can burn enough calories to lose the weight they want to lose by sitting around complaining about how fat they are.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
For the most part, the discussion in this thread has been regarding those who are overweight, but can prevent that condition. I don't think anyone is denying that genetics play a part in obesity, and if someone is overweight despite their best efforts then that's unfortunate. However, I wouldn't presume to feel sympathy with those who are overweight for reasons beyond their own control.
In any case, I apologize for any offense that I caused. Some of my earlier comments probably had an accusatory and condescending tone.
quote: There is nothing inherently wrong with being overweight.
If we're speaking from a medical standpoint, then I would have to disagree. Overweight people are more susceptible to heart disease, diabetes, and other afflictions that often result in death. If, on the other hand, you're speaking from a societal point of view, then personally, I agree. Like I said earlier, if you're comfortable with yourself, then I have no problem with you either.
quote: If you're worried about health, that's nice. Very sweet. But you don't encourage someone by telling them that thier problem is their own fault.
I'm sorry, but in many cases it is the fault of the person who is overweight. There are those who over eat, eat fast food on a regular basis, and do very little exercise. Who else can be held responsible when one's obesity is not a result of factors beyond their control? Sometimes we just have to take responsibility for our actions.
quote:I've never known an overweight person who didn't genuinely want to lose weight, and almost everyone I've known who has really put an effort into shedding some pounds has succeeded. I think all it takes is some moderation and common sense.
Sorry, but that's just my personal experience. How many overweight people do you know who don't want to lose weight? Again, this is regarding those who are overweight not because of genetic or psychological factors, but through personal choices.
Any hey, Fat Farm is also one of my favorite OSC stories.
Posts: 1855 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:I wouldn't presume to feel sympathy with those who are overweight for reasons beyond their own control.
In any case, I apologize for any offense that I caused.
Yet you can't seem to stop....
quote:I'm sorry, but in many cases it is the fault of the person who is overweight. There are those who over eat, eat fast food on a regular basis, and do very little exercise. Who else can be held responsible when one's obesity is not a result of factors beyond their control? Sometimes we just have to take responsibility for our actions.
You know what though? Nobody needs you to come along and point the finger. We get it, it's all our fault, enough already. Why do you have to keep saying the same thing over and over? You made your point. Say a dude were to make a mistake on the road and get into a car accident that killed his kid. Okay, it was his own fault he killed his kid; would you make it a point to rub that in his face? "Sorry, but I can't pretend to have any sympathy for you, because it's your own stupid driving that caused your kid to die." Would you come along and say stuff like that while the guy is trying to grieve?
Being overweight is a sensitive issue. That's what you don't seem to understand.
Your general attitude just seems to be so crappy toward your fellow human beings.
How does that happen?
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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quote: quote: If you're worried about health, that's nice. Very sweet. But you don't encourage someone by telling them that thier problem is their own fault.
****************** I'm sorry, but in many cases it is the fault of the person who is overweight. There are those who over eat, eat fast food on a regular basis, and do very little exercise. Who else can be held responsible when one's obesity is not a result of factors beyond their control? Sometimes we just have to take responsibility for our actions.
Yes, and then work to change them! There's no point in saying, yes, I'm fat and it's my own fault and not doing anything. But it doesn't *matter* what the reason behind someone's excess weight is. Taking responsibility is not a matter of saying, "huh, I guess I should not have eaten at McD's everyday for the last month because now I have gained 20lbs." That helps no one. That starts a cycle of beliving the myriad of slurs about how lazy and ignorant and silly fat people are, and guilt and basically, WHY do we need blame anyway? How would anyone know if obesity is the result *only* of factors within a person's control? You cannot know that. You cannot know what is going on in a person's head.
It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is. Taking responsibility has nothing to do with that. If we assume that the "responsible" thing to do is to try and lose weight in order to become healthier, then what good is it to tell a person working hard to solve a problem that the problem is all thier fault in the first place for "over ea[ing], eat[ing] fast food on a regular basis, and do[ing] very little exercise."
I believe that never is a human life so straightforward that there are no complications surrounding food, eating, and lifestyle. And that there is no situation where placing blame would be remotely helpful.
Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
My hesitance to feel sympathy with overweight people has more to do with political correctness. One will often get their head bitten off for daring to be sympathetic. That was my meaning, not "I don't feel sorry for you because you're fat and it's your own fault."
quote: Why do you have to keep saying the same thing over and over? You made your point.
Yeah TL, I made my point, and you and Princess Leah argued it, and so I responded by explaining my point in what I hoped was more detail. This is what's called a discussion (or argument, as you may perceive) and they generally take place on these forums. If you think that I'm being callous, then you're welcome to shrug me off as nothing more than a jerk. TL, my apology was genuine, but if you choose not to accept it, then that's ok with me.
quote: Taking responsibility is not a matter of saying, "huh, I guess I should not have eaten at McD's everyday for the last month because now I have gained 20lbs." That helps no one.
I disagree. With the realization that eating at McDonald's everyday for a month was unhealthy, one can perhaps avoid eating there on a regular basis in the future.
quote: It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is. Taking responsibility has nothing to do with that. If we assume that the "responsible" thing to do is to try and lose weight in order to become healthier, then what good is it to tell a person working hard to solve a problem that the problem is all thier fault in the first place for "over ea[ing], eat[ing] fast food on a regular basis, and do[ing] very little exercise."
I think it's fairly obvious that the responsible thing to do is to attempt to lose weight in order to become healthier. I don't condemn those who are working hard to solve their weight problems, I commend their efforts. It's the people who eat too much and eat poorly and don't try to do anything about it who I believe have a problem. They harm themselves, and in some cases they harm the people for whom they are directly responsible.
Posts: 1855 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:My hesitance to feel sympathy with overweight people has more to do with political correctness. One will often get their head bitten off for daring to be sympathetic.
Well, I hope so, if you just assume that everyone who is overweight considers it to be a problem that is thier fault.
And let's get one thing straight: Refraining from insuling, discriminating against, or otherwise deriding someone is NOT sympathy. That's called decency. You're not showing a lot.
quote:With the realization that eating at McDonald's everyday for a month was unhealthy, one can perhaps avoid eating there on a regular basis in the future.
Yes, that's right. But what if the person is not simply because they were eating at McDonald's everyday? Where's the sypmtom and where is the disease? Why were they eaing at McDonalds everyday? Do you think that the people who eat there haven't heard of calories? If we again assume that to "take responsibility" is to try to lose weight, then it makes no difference why or how that weight was gained. High-calorie fast food is not condusive to weight loss. ANYone trying to lose weight, whether or not they ate at fast food places before, is going to have a harder time of it if they eat unhealthy food. It's often hard to resist, or to take the time and effort to find healthy alternatives. Placing what you call "responsiblity" is in fact placing blame, and apparently you would have it that overweight people place it on themselves and stop making "excuses."
I think that is ridiculous. Read a couple of the links above.
quote: It's the people who eat too much and eat poorly and don't try to do anything about it who I believe have a problem.
Hmmm. They "have a problem". Yes, they do. *pointed stare*
Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
From what I've seen, some (maybe even a lot) of overweight people* don't know much about nutrition, exercise, and proper eating habits.
They don't know how many calories you're supposed to take in daily, what a normal portion size is, or how easy it is to eat healthier without spending any more money or time.
On top of that, for a lot of people eating is an escape from reality, a solution for depression or loneliness, or just a timekiller.
Yeah, most people who're overweight know why that is. But what they don't seem to comprehend is that the condition is fully reversible. It's like me strapping barb wire around my wrist and then complaining incessantly that my wrist hurts. This is pure cause/effect. Some people gain weight easier than others, that's true. Some people have thyroid disorders (rare). Some people have tortoise-slow metabolisms (hello). But anyone with a little self discipline and commitment to their health can lose weight.
*When I say overweight, I'm not referring to every girl I know, who claims she needs to lose ten pounds. I'm talking about the people who are obese -- 30-100 pounds over their healthy weight.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:But anyone with a little self discipline and commitment to their health can lose weight.
Yeah, and people who are depressed can just "snap out of it" too.
Sometimes it's not quite that simple. There are many factors that can play into a weight problem and it's not that easy for every person to lose weight.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I didn't say it was easy; I said it was possible. See, my problem with comparing weight problems to depression is that it makes people victims. They don't want to lose weight, so they say, "I can't help it, it's a chemical imbalance."
Which is sometimes the case. But I haven't seen any evidence that this is the rule. The only way to get in shape in to hold yourself accountable for the condition of your body. Stop blaming your job, your commute, your kids, medical conditions, and everything else that makes it hard. And it can be hard, make no mistake. But if you believe, as I do, that taking care of your body is worth it then it's a lot easier.
The other thing is that people who've been overweight their whole lives are hypersensitive about it. So it's hard to have an honest discussion about it because people react emotionally. I'm not criticizing anyone, but I'm sure several people feel my last two posts were personal attacks on their way of life.
Leah, People who need to lose weight and aren't trying can't be all that concerned about their health. The risks of being overweight are undeniable.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
You didn't say that people who didn't try to lose weight were concerned about their health. You said that IF a person is concerned abou thier health and IF they have "a little self-discipline" (so it is implied that this person IS trying to lose weight), then they can lose weight.
And I told you to look at the reverse of what you said, which is that IF someone who is trying to cannot lose weight, then they must lack concern for their health and self-discipline.
Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
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I'm trying, I can't lose weight. Therefore, according to you I either have no concern for my heath (not true, or I wouldn't be *trying* to lose weight) or I lack even the "little" self-discipline needed to shed those pesky pounds!
I don't think I'm reading anything into it that you didn't put there. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but that doesn't mean it hurts any less. Did you read my links?
Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
I think, for most people, it is possible to lose weight.
It is also a tremendous endeavor. It doesn't take a little self-discipline. It takes a lot of discipline. It takes time - for most people, to lose a pound, they must create a debt of 3500 calories. That means to lose a pound a week takes the following:
1. Determine normal number of calories burned in a day. For me, that's about 1800. A piece of cake with icing can be 400. That means there's not much room for any yummy stuff. 2. Eat 250 fewer calories than burned in a normal day. For me, that's 1550 calories a day. This is NOT very much. 3. Burn 250 calories with exercise. I can't run because of my knees and because I hate it, so that means 30 minutes to 45 minutes of intense aerobic exercise.
And this is done every day, seven days a week. If I miss a day of exercise and have a piece of cake with lunch, then those 500 calories have to come somewhere else. It is possible, but it is a LOT of work. Most people are not trained to correlate their intensity of exercise with heart rate, so in order to make sure they have their heart rate up, it helps to join a gym. That's expensive.
It is most certainly possible, and I think it is possible for almost everyone. However, it takes a great deal of time and money and inconvenience, and unless the lifestyle is changed completely, the same conditions that caused them to gain weight in the first place means it doesn't stay off without a continued investment of the aforementioned time and money.
It isn't fair to minimize the effort it takes.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Well, maybe I skipped the third component -- knowledge. Congrats on trying, and if you tell me what you're doing I can tell you why it doesn't appear to be working.
That's another big problem, too. People try to get in shape, but having never been in shape they don't know where to begin. (Not saying that's the case with you) They may not have a place they can exercise, or a workout partner. They may not tweak their diet in the proper, healthy way.
I've seen people in the gym, who obviously hadn't been there long, misusing equipment because they were too embarassed to ask anyone how to use it.
---
re: that statement - it's not an insult. Just because you were insulted doesn't change that.
---
Kat, I am minimizing the effort required a little, because saying it's an insurmountable challenge doesn't exactly send people running for the gym. It can be easier than you make it sound, though.
Your workout is one for someone who's already in shape. You have a good base fitness level, and you eat pretty healthy (guessing).
When you're just starting out it's much easier to lose weight, because you have bad habits and lots of weight to lose. 1800 calories is great, but most of the people I'm talking about are probably closer to 3000 a day. They can lose 4 pounds a week just changing their diet. And no one's ever explained that to them. That's all I'm trying to get across.
I hate for someone to not want to be that big, but to stay that way because they're not sure where to begin correcting it.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
>>>it takes a great deal of time and money and inconvenience
Which some people don't have. Ergo, it is not always possible.
(In theory of course it is possible, but if you do not have the money/time/energy/support at the time that you are trying, it means "can't". In theory most people could run an ultramarathon if they had the time, money, energy, knowledge, support, and equipment needed to do it, but they don't. So they CAN'T.)
Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Yeah, at any given moment, it may not be possible for some people.
I do think...I mean, at any given moment it may not be possible, but for most people, within a three year period, they could find a way.
That isn't meant to point fingers - it's meant to give hope. It doesn't have to happen right now to happen eventually. Someone who wants to lose weight, if they can't pull the resources together right now, can make a plan.
I hate that it takes so much effort, effort and money and time that could be better spent on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. For whatever reason, it's the way our bodies work. Until someone finds a way to circumvent the laws of physics, time and effort and inconvenience is what it will take.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Congrats on trying, and if you tell me what you're doing I can tell you why it doesn't appear to be working.
Well, it mostly doesn't work because while I've managed to break the cylce of puring after binge eating (useing, I might add, a hell of a lot of self-discipline and sitting on hands and breathing deeply), I have not yet managed to find the "little self-discipline" I'd require to eat normally.
Wanna give me some tips?
I'm not stupid. I know a lot about nutrition. I care a lot about my health, otherwise I would not have stopped purging, the result of which has been me gaining a lot of weight and noticably becomeing more of a target for insults, whether well-meaning or not. I'm pretty proud of stopping purging, which took a LOT of self-discipline, as I mentioned.
So what am I missing, JT? Clue me in because I'd loooove to learn.
Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
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You answered your own question in your first sentence.
My question to you would be why do you binge eat? Do you eat when you're sad, or lonely? Are you used to huge meals (aka you're hungry if you don't eat that much)?
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Being fat is a problem of values. I think that, just like the divorce 'problem', we can solve the weight 'problem' in America by just reasserting the value that being healthy is best whenever possible. I mean, clearly in the past, people valued not being fat since there were fewer fat people. So, clearly, it's just a matter of reasserting the value of being healthy. In fact, maybe we can give tax incentives to those who lead healthy lifestyles and are not fat. It's obviously best for the country.
posted
What do you do with someone who is big but not unhealthy? I'm talking about someone who would be considered overweight, perhaps even obese, and yet has no health problems. Their heart is in great shape, they have low cholesterol, low blood pressure, no problems with diabetes.
Should they lose weight? Do they have any reason to other than aesthetics? What if they're happy and their husband loves them and thinks they are sexy and beautiful? Should they undertake the effort to lose weight, especially since we have evidence that dieting and losing and re-gaining weight is harder on people than just maintaining a steady weight, even if it's heavy?
Should we start looking at something other than weight to measure fitness? I certainly think so, I mean my daughter Emily is overweight on paper. She also was the top scoring 1st grade girl on the physical fitness test, and can do 8 pullups in a row. She's overweight because she's solid muscle, but isn't there something wrong with our chart system when a kid like her who is as healthy as can be and in excellent shape looks overweight on paper?
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
To increase the financial burden of losing weight?
If a slimmer population is the goal and we are willing to financial reward those who do it, why not make gym fees deductible?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Subway! Well that's one option anyway. Often you can't always get the best food available, but just try to get the best you can. Spaghetti makes for a good dinner when dieting.
I know that doesn't help much. I don't have any recipes as I've never had to cook formyself. But I have had trouble with wieght: I used to be underweight and have recently just fit right at the bottom of healthy BMI after building muscle. The main exercise I get is bike riding with my friends. Just make sure not to compare yourself to other, more healthy people. Everyone who doesn't have a problem with weight usually has some other problem they wish they could improve. It's your problem and you alone who gets to reap the rewards when you make progress. But support is good. Do you not have anyone else to go walking/riding/etc with?
Anyway, you have my support. If you have any specific questions you think I, or the rest of hatrack, may be able to help you with, be sure to ask.
Posts: 1138 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I feel a lot of (probably unjust) hate toward the thin people in this thread who have lots of neat little theories. I can't help but think that many thin people eat just as much as many fat people, but have genetically better metabolisms. I'm probably wrong, but I don't care. I don't want to talk to always-thin people about being fat. They don't get it and they never will. Am I too sensitive? Probably. But several (at least 2) in this thread are too INsensitive.
To those of you, like me, who struggle with extra weight... I recently read about the Insulin Resistant Diet. I am not sure I have PCOS (Poly-Cystic Ovarian Syndrome), but I sure do have MANY of the symptoms. Insulin resistance is common in people with PCOS and basically causes weight gain without the right sort of eating habits. The best explanations are at these links: IR Diet in a Nutshell
It's not a diet for everyone, only those who have that IR problem. And it's not really a diet, but a lifestyle. I've started it already, but I haven't gotten the book yet, so I'm sure I have more to learn.
quote:What do you do with someone who is big but not unhealthy? I'm talking about someone who would be considered overweight, perhaps even obese, and yet has no health problems. Their heart is in great shape, they have low cholesterol, low blood pressure, no problems with diabetes.
Should they lose weight? Do they have any reason to other than aesthetics? What if they're happy and their husband loves them and thinks they are sexy and beautiful? Should they undertake the effort to lose weight, especially since we have evidence that dieting and losing and re-gaining weight is harder on people than just maintaining a steady weight, even if it's heavy?
Should we start looking at something other than weight to measure fitness? I certainly think so, I mean my daughter Emily is overweight on paper. She also was the top scoring 1st grade girl on the physical fitness test, and can do 8 pullups in a row. She's overweight because she's solid muscle, but isn't there something wrong with our chart system when a kid like her who is as healthy as can be and in excellent shape looks overweight on paper?
Nope, she's fine. I don't advocate everyone look like Courtney Cox. Every guy I played football with was considered overweight, if you just go by their BMI. If you're carrying extra weight, whether it be muscle or fat you'll be high on that.
That's why I said earlier that unless you're overweight to the point that it's dangerous I wouldn't worry about it. If you're healthy and happy with the way you look, why would you lose weight just to conform to some societal ideal.
If you're not healthy or happy and your weight is a reason why then I think a change may be in order.
quote:I feel a lot of (probably unjust) hate toward the thin people in this thread who have lots of neat little theories. I can't help but think that many thin people eat just as much as many fat people, but have genetically better metabolisms. I'm probably wrong, but I don't care. I don't want to talk to always-thin people about being fat.
It's not a neat little theory. I was 45 pounds overweight, and I lost it all in 4 months doing nothing more than monitoring my diet and exercise routine. Now that was hard. If I had to do a similar thing now (while working fulltime) it'd take twice as long. My metabolism sucks (I eat about what Kat does a day and I'm quite a bit bigger).
So if I'm insensitive, that's why. I know it can be done because I've done it, and I've helped other people do it.
And just for the record, I don't think any of you are the people I was referring to in the post that started this train of thought. I specifically said people who need to lose some vanity weight are excluded. I was talking specifically about dangerously obese people.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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You answered your own question in your first sentence.
My question to you would be why do you binge eat? Do you eat when you're sad, or lonely? Are you used to huge meals (aka you're hungry if you don't eat that much)?
Weren't you the one who started the Anorexia thread?
Well, gosh, why don't those silly people starving themselves just eat!
And why not stop binge eating! Silly me, the answer was right there in front of my nose the whole time!
Look, I know it's possible to lose weight healthily. I know it's possible to recover from an eating disorder. But people who place blame on the person for being overweight- people who assume that this person is overweight because they don't care or don't know or aren't strong enough to change-- DO NOT HELP. Not me, not anyone.
Did you read my links? Read them. Tell me what you think about them. Tell me why and how you're not one of those people who is blaming the victim.
You cannot make these assumptions about overweight people. I told you that I am fat because of an eating disorder. Do you know how many people suffer from binge eating disorder or compulsive overeating? It's a genuine, documented, diagnosable disease. And it's one that I hid for a long time because of cruel generalizations about overweight people, like the one that you made. I am not the only one. I may be the only one talking about it--it certainly feels like it--but I am not the only one. Don't reinforce stereotypes.
Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Stop blaming your job, your commute, your kids, medical conditions, and everything else that makes it hard.
Right. So if I have a medical condition that causes me to gain 20 lbs in one weekend, despite eating less than 1500 calories a day, that's my fault and I'm obviously doing something wrong. Damn that broccoli!
[/sarcasm]
That really did happen to me. No, I'm not kidding, lying, or exaggerating. My doctor didn't understand it either. At least, not until much, much later when I'd been diagnosed with sleep disorders.
quote:The other thing is that people who've been overweight their whole lives are hypersensitive about it. So it's hard to have an honest discussion about it because people react emotionally.
Um, yeah. It couldn't possibly be because we've been called names and have been sneered at and have had people poking their noses into our business telling us everything we're doing wrong with our lives, could it?
quote:People who need to lose weight and aren't trying can't be all that concerned about their health. The risks of being overweight are undeniable.
Right. Because, of course, if we were concerned, we'd have perfect bodies. Because that's all that's required. Enough concern. And magically, everything that causes us to be fat will disappear. Hooray!
[/sarcasm]
quote:All that sentence meant was that the two components necessary for weight loss are self-discipline and concern for your health.
Um, no. Those are two components, but not THE two components.
People who are sleep deprived tend to gain weight more quickly. People who don't take in enough soluble fiber weigh more. People with some medical conditions may be unable to lose weight or may uncontrollably gain weight.
There are other factors. Just because you don't know what they are doesn't cause them to magically disappear.
quote:if you tell me what you're doing I can tell you why it doesn't appear to be working.
That's part of the problem. A lot of people seem to feel that it's okay to poke their noses into fat people's business, telling us that we shouldn't eat or drink this, we better get more active, whatever it is that they think we're doing wrong. Unfortunately, that list of what they think we're doing wrong is a long one.
Guess what? We don't owe you or anyone else any explanations. If you don't like that we're fat, fine. I don't care. Just don't bother me with the details.
quote:I've seen people in the gym, who obviously hadn't been there long, misusing equipment because they were too embarassed to ask anyone how to use it.
Yeah. See above comment about sneering and ridicule.
I dislike asking for help regarding certain things because of the dumb, prickish comments I inevitably get. Thanks, but I wasn't asking you to tell me in detail just how fat, ugly, and lazy I am. Thanks, but I don't need to hear, just one more time, how I'm a failure at absolutely everything in life just because I'm fat.
If you've never been fat, then you have no idea the kinds of things fat people have had to put up with. You have no idea what our life is like. You have no idea what we've tried, or not.
You just have no idea.
I'm going to tell you something else. When I was a teenager, say 14-18, I wasn't overweight. I was, however, over the top of the recommended weight charts. My doctor felt it necessary to tell me at every opportunity that I should lose 30 pounds because I was fat.
Here's the thing. I wasn't.
I was strong.
In my family, we have large muscles and dense muscles. We are (some of us, at any rate) strong. In grade 10 phys ed, I could leg press and bench press (and every other kind of weightlifting that was available there) more weight than any of the guys in my class, including the football players. Shocked the heck out everyone. On a bet, one day, I picked up the front end of my car - a 1980 Honda Civic, so yeah, a backpocket car - and got it a few inches off the ground. None of the guys in university could do that, not even the jocks.
If I was as overweight as that doc claimed I was, then I should not have had the muscle power to be able to do that.
I agree that it would be better if I could be at my optimal weight. I understand that there are risks associated with being obese. And I do understand portion control and nutrition.
I also understand that it's not always that simple.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Did you read my first post? I thought it was clear that I wasn't talking about people whose extra weight was due to a chemical imbalance (I didn't mention eating disorders specifically, but I put them in the same category as thyroid disorders -- you may not be able to lose weight for medical reasons).
You seem to want to skip that and claim that everyone is innocent in the battle against obesity. Well, they're not. I happen to believe that those who are are in the minority. Do you claim that most people who are overweight are that way because of an eating disorder?
My point is, and always was, that most people who need to do something about their weight can, but don't. Then I gave reasons why they don't, and ways they can. I explained twice what I meant by overweight, and that it's impossible to discuss because people get sensitive about it.
What about you? You never answered my question about why you binge. Are you in therapy, or on medicine to correct it? If you don't feel like talking about it here (or to me) I understand. But for you I would say not to worry about the weight. It's not the problem, just a side effect of the problem. When you get to the point where you're not eating that way and you start to try to lose weight, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Well, they're not. I happen to believe that those who are are in the minority.
Where's your evidence?
And besides that, what gives you the right to decide who's guilty and who isn't?
quote:I was 45 pounds overweight, and I lost it all in 4 months doing nothing more than monitoring my diet and exercise routine. Now that was hard. If I had to do a similar thing now (while working fulltime) it'd take twice as long. My metabolism sucks (I eat about what Kat does a day and I'm quite a bit bigger).
So if I'm insensitive, that's why. I know it can be done because I've done it, and I've helped other people do it.
That it was possible for you doesn't make it possible for every single other fat person.
You understand your experience. You are the expert when it comes to your experience. You are not the expert at mine or anybody else's.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I too was told that I was fat when I was younger.
I wasn't.
I've seen pictures, including old videos. I was healthy and most definitely not fat. Hardly even chubby.
But I felt fat because I was told I was and because I was much larger than my skinny best friend. (She was a twig.) I remember sitting on the see-saw with an old "crush" of mine and being mortified that we were dead-even in weight. He weighed exactly as much as me--but _I_ was the fat one. I had family that would harp on my eating constantly.
So, in my head, it was a losing battle. I was already fat and changing that was an incomprehensible task. (I was an active child already--lots of running and playing outside.) It was a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It didn't help that when I hit puberty I ended up having conditions that CAUSE weight gain, which I didn't find out about until much later--too late to do anything preventative.
quote:I am minimizing the effort required a little, because saying it's an insurmountable challenge doesn't exactly send people running for the gym. It can be easier than you make it sound, though
Neither minimizing it nor exageratting the effort it takes helps, I think. If you minimize the effort required, then when people try the minimized amount and it doesn't work, it's more discouraging.
I'm all for accurate information, in all cases. Education doesn't help when what is taught is wrong, even if it is for the best of intentions.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Actually, there's increasing evidence that there are more people with conditions that cause weight gain than previously thought. PCOS, for instance, was discovered not too long ago (10-15 years, maybe?), and one of its effects is often, but not always, weight-gain around the middle. Weight-gain also makes the symptoms of the condition worse, so losing weight is often part of the treatment. But having the condition makes it VERY hard to lose weight for chemical/medical reasons that are beyond my ability to explain in this paragraph (a lot of it has to do with Insulin Resistance--for some people, which I linked to above). So you have to work extra hard at it. Harder than people without the syndrome.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
It's all anecdotal. People I've talked with at the gym, people who've asked me for advice, specials I've seen on TV (not reality TV, btw).
I just can't imagine that the majority of seriously obese people are that way because of medical conditions. But maybe I'm wrong.
You wouldn't believe how many people came up to me in the months after I lost a bunch of weight, asking me how I did it. They were always shocked at how simple it was (not easy, simple). You wouldn't believe the talk I had with a woman who was pushing 300 pounds who really didn't understand why she couldn't lose weight eating 4000 calories a day (probably 2500 of those were from fat). You wouldn't believe how surprised my best friend was when I convinced him to give up soft drinks for 3 weeks (the kid keeps Coke in business -- 60+ ounces a day) and he lost 14 pounds.
And quid, I've never ridiculed or made fun of anyone who couldn't use the stuff in the gym, nor have I ever seen that happen. But I'm not gonna offer to help them or I'll get yelled at just like I did hear today. I will send an employee over to help them, sometimes that's better.
I've never sneered at or ridiculed anyone who's overweight. I could care less if everyone's 500 pounds, you weight is your business. The only thing I want people to know (and I knew you guys already knew) is that most (I'm sticking with most) people can do something about their weight. I don't think they need to, but I think it's possible. It sucks for everyone who's had some strange condition that precluded that (20 lbs in a weekend -- that's unbelievable) or who's been made to feel fat when they're not.
And I'm not telling anyone what to do. I'm just giving them options. I know that's insulting to some people, and I apologize to those people. But I hate for ignorance to be the cause of unhappiness.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote: Just make sure not to compare yourself to other, more healthy people.
Let me give you a hint: being fat is so universally despised in this country that even very fat people dislike hanging out with other very fat people. A fat person attempting to exercise, lose weight, etc. is NOT going to compare himself to another fat person -- ever -- during the process, but will inevitably compare himself to the more attractive, more "successful" people out there.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I was told two days ago by my gynocologist that I should have children as soon as possible or I might lose my chance. Since that's not an option right now because it would be incredibly irresponsible at this time, I've decided to take bold steps to lose weight. That will increase my chances of fertility later and it will make my knees stop hurting. It will also make it easier for me to chase around little ones. Hopefully that way, when we're reading to have children, I'll be physically fit enough to increase my chances of success. (Miscarriages are also, sadly, more common with women who have PCOS.)
I'm doing this for me and my husband and my future family. Because those are the things that are important to me. I don't care if some self-absorbed thin person looks on me with disdain. To be fair, I'm looking with as much disdain at them because of their look and mannerisms.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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By that remark, I meant its not worth comparing oneself to anyone. If you set out a goal, the reward comes when you feel you've achieved something, not when other people think you have. Even if someone does what that Jared guy from the Subway ad's did, there's still more goals to set: like keeping healthy and getting fitter. I know I didn't do a very good job of relationg to Leah in my earlier post. For me, it wasn't getting inside BMI that was important, I was just pointing out that losing fat isn't the only way to get inside BMI, alas, in a very obscure, stupid way.
Posts: 1138 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote: You wouldn't believe how surprised my best friend was when I convinced him to give up soft drinks for 3 weeks (the kid keeps Coke in business -- 60+ ounces a day) and he lost 14 pounds.
Great story. Touching. I haven't consumed soda or any carbonated drink since I was eight, not counting a handful of occasions where it was the only thing available to me. Yet I'm still heavy. Weird, huh?
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I'm going to go ahead and retire from this conversation now.
JT, I'm in agreement with some of what you say. I oppose some of it. I greatly oppose the way you've said most of it.
I'm sorry if anyone felt like I was attacking them personally. It was probably unwise of me to get involved in an issue that is so personal and painful right now (the day after my 2nd appt. at an E.D. clinic). I still think I'm right , but I don't think I'm up to the argument.
Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:I work 8 hours a day, and often I'll put in some overtime, and yet somehow I still manage to get a fair amount of exercise.
*snort* I work 10-12 hours six days a week and often a few hours (or more – this week it will be 9) on the seventh. And I don’t think that’s all that uncommon. In fact, I can't think of anyone I know who works a salaried (as opposed to hourly) position who averages only eight hours a day.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Well, let me present you with a trophy. What exactly is your point? Is it that I don't work enough? Or is it that those who work 60-70 hours a week don't have time to exercise? Because I think that's bullshit. All it takes is 30 minutes a day. But maybe you're tired after that long day of work, maybe you want to spend some time with your family. I would say do something that constitutes exercise with your loved ones, like going for walk together. I can't really speak to you specifically, as I have no idea you do with your free time, but I'm just trying to understand what you're arguing.
Posts: 1855 | Registered: Mar 2003
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If someone is working 70 hours a week, that leaves only 42 hours to oneself. Now, let's say that one has to commute two hours a day to and from work. Well, that leaves you with 28 hours. Let's add an hour to get ready for work. 21 hours. So maybe you have three hours a day to yourself. Well, that's not counting meal prep time, which could take another hour. And time to eat meals. Conceivably, someone simply may not have time to spend thirty minutes a day walking around when that time could be spent, say, relaxing or reading or preparing for the next day's work.
Heck, _I_ have trouble finding time to exercise (and no, I'm not overweight), and I certainly don't work 60-70 hours a week.
posted
You know what? I don't really care. My argument in this thread has been that most people certainly have the ability to lose weight. I've admitted that this is not the case with everyone, and that there are certainly genetic and psychological exceptions. I have said that if someone who has the ability to lose weight, and chooses not to do so, is doing so out of their own choice and that I'm not bothered by that. My original intent was just to say how it was possible to lose weight if one was really dedicated to that aim. But as JT said, a lot of people's sensitivity about the issue causes them to take offense where none was intended. Which is not to say that none of my posts were offensive, as I realize that some of what I posted was insensitive.
katharina, I thought dkw's post was pretty rude too. Her *snort* of condescension for those of us who work 40 hours a week was unnecessary. I still don't think working long days is an excuse for being overweight. If one admits that their weight is a result of working too much, and not having enough time to exercise and eat right, then I think that person is also admitting that their weight is a problem which could be controlled with some effort. If they're still not willing to put forth the effort, well, refer to the first paragraph...
Posts: 1855 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote: A lot of people don't have control over how much they work, if they want to keep their jobs.
How does this change anything? If someone works long hours, they still have the ability to lose weight if they're truly motivated to do so.
Also, I believe I just specifically posted "Which is not to say that none of my posts were offensive, as I realize that some of what I posted was insensitive."
Posts: 1855 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
There is an article in the current print version of New Scientist entitled "Will a pastry a day keep the doctor away?" with the subtitle "It turns out that being a little overweight may actually be the healthier option - but how can this be?"
Unfortunately I haven't yet received my copy of this issue, and can't remember my New Scientist login, so I can't provide more information than that right now, but I'm curious to see what the article says.
Here is the excerpt of the article that is available online for nonsubscribers (or for subscribers like me who have forgotten their username and password):
quote:It turns out that being a little overweight may actually be the healthier option - but how can this be? New Scientist investigates "I HAVE a great heart and great legs but the rest of me is hopeless," says Stanton Glantz cheerfully. The 59-year-old professor of medicine from the University of California, San Francisco, is just a few supersize colas away from being officially obese, but he reckons he's in tip-top condition. "I just got back from a 350-mile bike trip all over the south-west of the United States," he says. That must have burnt off a few pounds? He laughs. "I lost no weight whatsoever. I was eating like a pig I was so hungry all the time."
The received medical wisdom is that Glantz's weight puts him at risk of a slew of illnesses, from osteoarthritis and cancer to diabetes, hypertension and heart disease. But he is confident that as long as he keeps his weight stable with exercise and eats a sensible diet, the risks are not nearly as serious ...
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, but I don't think I'm up to the argument.
