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Those darn anti-Christians are trying to force evangelical Christianity out from sponsorship at the Air Force Academy, too (AP artcle, CNN article).
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Yeah, I've never quite known what that was all about. I mean, what am I supposed to do with this card? Other than carry it, I mean.
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Lisa, I don't get how that article says that the ACLU is bashing religion. Am I being totally dense, or is the ACLU defending the complaintants freedom of religion?
Is your tongue in your cheek? Perhaps you are being too cryptic for me.
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I think comments along the lines of "the ACLU is attacking Christianity" have been voiced a few times in various threads over the past couple of days.
Perhaps that's what starLisa is referring to.
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Used to be that carrying a card would identify someone as a member of a group. I think that these days with the ACLU it is a somewhat tongue-in-cheek reference to people being accused of this membership. Was it Dukakis who got slammed for being a "card-carrying member"?
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Yeah, I see no "bashing" in this case. The ACLU is trying to make sure that nobody is forced by the government to choose between prison or switching religions. The fact that the only alternative to prison was a pentecostal religious conversion center that doesn't even try to do meaningful drug treatment seems to clearly violate the First Amendment prohibition on the government favoring one religion over another.
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: Used to be that carrying a card would identify someone as a member of a group. I think that these days with the ACLU it is a somewhat tongue-in-cheek reference to people being accused of this membership. Was it Dukakis who got slammed for being a "card-carrying member"?
Yeah, I know, I was just being silly. It was Dukakis. Bush Sr. slammed him (to good effect, too, much to my dismay at the time) for being one when they were running against each other.
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I have to assume that starLisa is being sarcastic and is actually supporting the ACLU.
Good article on good things the ACLU does. ACLU bashing is more widespread than religion bashing from the ACLU.
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It seems in this case they were fighting for his right to practice the type of Christrianity of his choice.
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Dude, you must be a sorceror, not a real wizard, otherwise you'd know that since just ripping the specific card in half was the only requirement, obviously it was not a spell you were casting.
That's why Sorcerors only have to get an AA, not the whole four years.
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Well, next time I'll just let you muck around with magic when you don't know what you're doing so your head will asplode, Mr. Hasty.
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quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: Those darn anti-Christians are trying to force evangelical Christianity out from sponsorship at the Air Force Academy, too (AP artcle, CNN article).
The US miliatary is not the place to spread religion. Respect it yes, shoving it in the face of others, no.
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Incidentally given starLisa's past rather firm stances on seperating religion from government, I rather think she's sticking up for the ACLU and the title is tongue-in-cheek.
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I'll have to join just to get one of those summoning cards. Think of what fun it would be at parties...
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quote:forced into a three-day "word fast" during which time he was required to remain silent and read the bible continuously
I'm Christian, so don't think I'm mocking Christianity. But that to me sounds like cruel and unusual punishment of the cult kind.
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I have to admit I think I'd still be in the place if they tried a "word fast" on me. I think I'd come up with new and exciting combinations of profanity.
Well, probably not, actually. I'd probably eventually get the message, do what the chimps wanted, and get out and then sue their pants off for money they hadn't even heard of. But I'd like to think I'd be defiant.
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quote:Originally posted by Jhai: I think comments along the lines of "the ACLU is attacking Christianity" have been voiced a few times in various threads over the past couple of days.
Perhaps that's what starLisa is referring to.
Yeah, it is. The truth is, that the ACLU is attacking those Christians who are champing at the bit to impose their religion on everyone else. Again. As though we haven't had enough of that over the past 2000 years.
Kinda makes you wonder if there'd be any Christians left if they'd hadn't spent the past 2000 years forcing people into it.
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quote:Kinda makes you wonder if there'd be any Christians left if they'd hadn't spent the past 2000 years forcing people into it.
What the hey, another lost cause.
starLisa, are you seriously suggesting that Christianity would not today be a major religion, would have died out in fact, if force had played no part in its rise?
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*laugh* Mormons-to make the most obvious and easiest example for me-have been doing a massive job converting with little force at all beyond persistance and sometimes annoynace (for those who don't convert), KoM.
Thanks for playing, though! And for fielding such a ridiculous assertion, to both of you.
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All five million of them? Come now, that qualifies as 'large-scale cult', but major world religion? I think not.
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There are 10 million non-infant Catholic baptisms a year, KoM. Most of them are adults converting from another denomination or religion.
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I think it's already ridiculous that somebody charged with a nonviolent marijuana offense would be sentenced to 3 months in jail, 3 months boot camp, 3 months "on a tether", and 4 years probation.
Diversion programs like the one described are even more ridiculous.
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quote:Kinda makes you wonder if there'd be any Christians left if they'd hadn't spent the past 2000 years forcing people into it.
What the hey, another lost cause.
starLisa, are you seriously suggesting that Christianity would not today be a major religion, would have died out in fact, if force had played no part in its rise?
I was pondering it, yes. I think perhaps that's exactly the case. Understand, Christianity and Islam are the two biggest religions in the world. By far. They are unusual in this. And what they share is that they started out killing anyone who didn't share their religion, and then kept that going by becoming the state religions of the countries they'd conquered. "Heresies", like the Cathars and such didn't try and force people, and they're gone.
Now, of course, they have a huge head start. And they've found that not forcing people leads to serious attrition. That's one of the ideas why there's this radicalized Christian movement in the US that wants to take us back to the halcyon days of theocracy, so that they can stop the attrition. By force.
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Christianity did not start out like you describe, starLisa, and I'm certain you know it. It did not start out by forcing people to convert to itself and killing those who refused. Are you a liar, to say things you know are untrue? Or are you just stupid and didn't know it was untrue?
If someone said something equally stupid and untrue about Jews, for example, I think it likely you would label them bigoted, ignorant, and anti-Semitic. You participated in a discussion regarding the Golden Rule recently. Well, I'm assuming you don't want people spreading bigoted lies about your religion. So don't do it about theirs.
KoM,
Your point was that Christianity would not be successful without force. You specifically brought up conversion rates. I used one example, Dagonee provided another.
Either change the original point you were making, or admit you were full of crap. I expect you'll do neither, of course. But you pinned yourself to the backboard, I'll bet you can find a way-in your own eyes, at least-to unpin yourself.
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