posted
This list is somewhat tongue-in-cheek (at keast I hope it is!), but it gives good rejoinders to reasons people give for having kids.
I tend to go with "The world needs more of us or we'll be outnumbered" (cf. Europe's declining population), and "Convert others to your views so there'll be one more of your kind and one less of Them" is a good answer to that. But it's not perfect, because it may take centuries to peacefully convert other cultures to your viewpoint and your culture could die out in the meantime. And of course eventually people need to start having kids if they want to keep humanity in existence.
I probably wouldn't want to have kids at all if the death of humanity (or at least "my" subset of it) weren't an issue. Anyone else feel this way?
Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I would like to see encouragement to not have so many children. Cut off tax breaks after 2 or something similar.
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
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Although I think they're trying to point out that babies don't stay babies for very long.
Despite the fact that I don't want to have children, I do think this list is pretty silly.
I do, however, sympathize with the woman in the one cartoon to whom the parents are saying, "What?! You don't want children?! How immature."
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
The best reason I can think of for having children (in hindsight) is that it teaches you to be willing to sacrifice, to love something more than yourself, to give up being wrapped up in spending your life doing things for yourself. Not saying you can't learn those things without children, but having children I think is the best way.
Posts: 867 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
My best argument for having children went something like this:
Two people talking in a typical cube-farm setting. Third person walks up and joins benign political discussion. Third person ends up saying, "I'd never vote for a president who was <insert physical characteristic that has no bearing on the performance of political duties, such as skin color>"
Third person walks away. First person says to second person, "This is why I have kids. The world will never change until my kids outnumber her kids."
Second person to first person: "Have a couple for me, would you?"
First person: "It's okay -- she doesn't have any kids and is too old to start."
Second person: "Still, better safe than sorry."
NOW, though... I'm glad I have kids because they are cool people. If I didn't have kids, playing board games and reading aloud would be a lot less fun. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I'm scared to have kids, but it would be nice to have someone with half of my genes running around... Perhaps they'd get my synesthesia, which would just rock.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Syn, I think anyone NOT scared to have kids (with the first one, at least) is nuts. I was terrified.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
It's interesting to me that the people I know who dislike kids and don't wish to have kids almost always seem to be those who had a difficult, harsh, or unpleasant childhood themselves. I think it's fine for people who don't want kids not to have them, but it's a shame that they miss out on all the joy.
Kids are so great! I love large families! I love babies but also love little kids, big kids, and grownup kids. They left out the most important reason to have kids, that it's so much fun! Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I seriously considered joining this group about ten years ago. I don't want children, and I believe all the points that were on their website at the time were valid. (I haven't read it in about ten years, so I can't speak to the current points.)
And for the record, I had a wonderful childhood, and am extrememly close to my parents and siblings. Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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If you don't mind going into it more, I am curious about your thoughts on this ElJay. I can understand a person not wanting to have children, but I'm not so sure why you would want the human race to become extinct. Do you think that nobody should have kids? From reading the website, their reasoning seems to be enviornmental. Is this your reasoning?
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Hrm, I missed the last couple of posts in this thread. Like ElJay, I had a wonderful childhood, and I don't want kids. Having children is not the only way to experience joy in life.
Note: I don't necessarily advocate that choice for everyone. It's just the right choice for my husband and me.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
My uncle who has 6 kids once gave me the best reason I have heard yet for not having kids. He told me, "One day, your child will learn to count into the millions. And this will inevitably be on a long car trip."
Posts: 289 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
There was a time when I did not want children. I wanted them, for me, but I was frightened what it would mean, for them. I am still frightened, hourly, now that I have them.
Ultimately, at the core of my being, I believe that having children is an extremely selfish thing to do. That may sound horrible and waspish, but I do believe it is true.
However, it did not stop me, and I cannot imagine my life without my treasures.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
I'll have to agree with something said earlier. This Voluntary Human Extinction group is pretty much... out of it.
This sort of thing has overtones of mad scientists and supervillians who wish to wipe out the human race. Only... "nicer". At least it seems so.
Insanity. And to associate all acts of creating more humans as evil, besides being silly, seems even sillier considering when you consider that their movement, if it was to suceed, would require means to reach an evil end. Of course, my view of "good" and "evil" has to do with human beings staying alive. Maybe that's just a personal preference.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
I dunno about having kids...On one hand, it sounds like an awful lot of work and responsibility. On the other hand though, I WOULD like to own slaves...
Posts: 2907 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Megan: Hrm, I missed the last couple of posts in this thread. Like ElJay, I had a wonderful childhood, and I don't want kids. Having children is not the only way to experience joy in life.
Note: I don't necessarily advocate that choice for everyone. It's just the right choice for my husband and me.
Of course, you can't say that what's right now won't ever change. My brother's best friend and his wife decided they weren't ever going to have kids. Just recently, they decided to try to have a child. She's now pregnant and extremely happy about it.
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
And it's quite possible that they will continue to be happy with their choice not to have children.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I think everyone should have less children, except Australians. We need a much larger workforce than 2.3 persons/sq. mile for the empire I'm planning to develop.
Oh, did I say that out loud.
Posts: 1138 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Many see humor in The Movement and think we can't be serious about voluntary human extinction, but in spite of the seriousness of both situation and movement, there's room for humor. In fact, without humor, Earth's condition gets unbearably depressing -- a little levity eases the gravity.
True, wildlife rapidly going extinct [link] and 40,000 children dying each day [link] are not laughing matters, but neither laughing nor bemoaning will change what's happening. We may as well have some fun as we work and play toward a better world.
Besides, returning Earth to its natural splendor and ending needless suffering of humanity are happy thoughts -- no sense moping around in gloom and doom.
posted
I remember reading some stuff by a group that not only advocated zero breeding, but that the human race should commit suicide as soon as possible. One question was "If you think that we should all commit suicide, why haven't you done it yet?" The answer was pretty much "We need to stick around and make sure that it's done properly."
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
It's amusing that such an organization would have as one of its goals the protection of Earth's biospheres and inhabitants (non-human, of course), and have such a poor understanding of the most basic things that motivate all of Earth's inhabitants, and how such traits are passed down.
Theirs is a forever hopeless and stupid endeavor, because they will never successfully convince everyone that the human race should become extinct, and until they do so, it will be impossible for it to happen voluntarily.
And they will never convince the human race because it is impossible for the human race to care about the environment of Earth up to and past its priority for its own life.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Also, it's amazingly unpersuasive. Here's an example:
Reason given: God wants us to. Real Reason: Mindless obedience to dogma peddlers who want larger flocks. Suggested Alternative: Seek true nature of God, whatever you perceive God to be.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:And they will never convince the human race because it is impossible for the human race to care about the environment of Earth up to and past its priority for its own life.
Actually, one of the things that makes me care about the environment of the Earth in the long term is the fact that I have kids and I want the Earth to be a healthy and beautiful place for them, and for my grandkids, etc. Not really a good argument for extinguishing kids, in my book.
We could do a lot of damage if we knew we were the last generation.
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:And you think having kids would provide you with slaves?
sigh...no. I just think it's funny. When I learned about the Emancipation Proclamation in school, I used it as an argument against doing the dishes. She fell down laughing. Remembering what I was like as a kid is enough to dissabuse me of any such serious notion.
Posts: 2907 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote: We could do a lot of damage if we knew we were the last generation.
A number of right-wingers are on record as opposing environmental initiatives for precisely this reason.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
One question for everybody that thinks this movement is stupid:
Would your opinion change if their stated goal was to reduce reduce and maintain human population at less than 1 billion?
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
That would depend entirely on their methods of persuasion. In and of itself, I don't think that's such a bad goal...except it would remove much of the impetus to get out into space, something I think is important for humanity.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
They do remind me of a super-villian organization in embryonic stage.
Some of the stuff I read on there was frightening. Especially the idea that if they got something that could eliminate the human ability to have children, they'd do encourage it and do it in a heartbeat to everyone. If there was a button to do so, they'd push it.
I know exactly what I'd do if they pushed that button. ^_^ Give them what they want, destroy humanity... but also. Make it so that the earth was not just ruined for current life, but would never be able to sustain life again. If we were the last generation, if, when we were dead, it was over... and they were the cause? I'd say we destroy the earth. Totally.
But that's ONLY if humanity was caused to become infertile on purpose by these whackos. But it would be soooo fitting.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Q: I've always wanted to have a baby of my own. What else is there to life? A:Both men and women can feel a need to nurture and, rather than producing a new human to care for, nurturing Earth's other "children" can be a viable alternative... [You could] Adopt-A-Stream! [Or try] gardening!
Right. They plan to subvert the biological urge to reproduce, by getting people to Adapt-A-Stream?!
Whatever.
Like most fringe groups, their arguments are hardly convincing unless you're already One of Them.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I cannot believe I missed this thread when it was on the first page. Good thing I look back every once in a while
My views are somewhat along the lines of what mph said: If these people were truly fervent in their belief of "helping" earth by having less human beings around they'd have ended their lives by now. As it stands, they are wasting valuable reasources by living that could be better used by a panda or a snake. Not only that, but they are also wasting precious resources by using computers and making webpages for their cause on the internet!
I have an honest question for groups like these or even for people with this sort of mindset: What makes the rest of earth's creatures more valuable than us? The process of extinction is a natural one, there are thousands of recorded extinctions on earth before man ever came around and the environment itself has changed over time. Humanity may not be delaying the process but they certainly are not the ones causing it. The earth is likely to end up just a chunk of lifeless rock floating through space no matter what humans do.
I recognize the importance of helping the environment but I also understand the reason why we do it: So we can enjoy the results. With no humans around, who's going to care?
Posts: 459 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote: Humanity may not be delaying the process but they certainly are not the ones causing it.
Humans didn't cause the idea of extinction or all past extinctions, but I think we definately are the cause of several current extinctions. I too am curious about the mindset behind the idea, but I suspect those that believe in it would rather not talk in detail so as to avoid giving offense.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I don't have ANY reasons to have kids. My sisters already have better ones than I could produce, and even they aren't all that great.
Posts: 91 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote: Sorry, I meant to say the ONLY ones causing it. My mistake, but I think my point still remains
There's multiple factors in every extinction. But saying that humans aren't the only cause in the extinction of an array of endangered/extinct animals and plant life is like saying that the Chicxulub meteor/comet wasn't the only cause of the extinction of the dinosaurs. It is the truth, there were multiple factors. But in both cases there is a single factor that is most important and without which exctinction would have occurred very differently.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
My option #3 was more along the lines of "greatly accelerating the rate of extinctions." It's actually pretty remarkable how much of an effect we've had, so far as we can tell.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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