posted
Not sure if that's really the kind of progress you want to be making. At least right now there is a culture of life amongst the doctors of the world. Many of them aren't just in it for the money. Sounds to me if we go the way you suggest, for the reasons you suggest, doctors will become all for the money, and the culture of life will take a backseat to the culture of the almighty dollar.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't see how making one type of medical procedure a little more profitable will make all of medicine into a for-profit enterprise, as if it isn't mostly that way already.
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: Personally, I encounter the same hypothetical questions, but I have the same hypothetical questions about all kinds of major crime networks: child pornographers, drug traffickers, importers of illegal products, recruiters for the KKK, international spy & espionage networks, etc. How do ANY of them establish the kinds of contacts they do without running into someone who will blow the whistle?
Who knows - but they do, somehow. Sometimes they get caught. Sometimes corrupt doctors do, too.
quote:Originally posted by Eljay:Yes, I'm a bit of an idealist, but that is tempered with a strong streak of realist. And you just seem to be incredibly cynical. I'm frankly glad I live in my world, not yours.
Fair enough. I'm glad I live in mine, and I don't think yours exists. [/QB]
Erso, your hypothetical scheme has many flaws, some pointed out. But an obvious one is that the people who make the ranking decisions for transplant lists are not "child pornographers, drug traffickers, importers of illegal products, recruiters for the KKK, international spy & espionage networks", or bear any simularities to these criminals. They are professionals chosen for their ethics.
Also, commitees make the decisions, so one guy couldn't launch someone to the top of the list, no matter how much he's paid.
The other criminal conspiracies you mention are busted all the time, often because people turn on them to benefit themselves. When has an organ selling conspiracy, in the US, ever been busted? I don't mean one doc who transplants a kidney after a bribe. I mean a big network like you described,
Ergo, Eros, your cynical conspiracy theory is only absurd.
posted
Aside from that, what's wrong with people becoming doctors to make money? Plenty of people do that already. Plenty of people become lots of different things to make money. In fact, I'd doubt there are that many doctors who become doctors simply to save lives or whatever other altruistic crap they spew. They want power, prestige, and respect. Money too, although that's less of an issue nowadays with the cost of malpractice insurance skyrocketing.
posted
Any doctors on the board that can attest to that one?
I haven't slightest clue as to what the mainstream motivations are for people becoming doctors.
I have reservations and skepticism though that transplants will become a great deal safer and that much more successful by increasing their frequency and increasing the amount of money that passes between hands.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
*sigh* A million just isn't what it used to be, ya know?
Morbo, I actually said there aren't that many "multi-millionaires," by which I meant "people who can afford to drop the $15 million erso was speculating in bribes without going broke." But still, even if we go with the 7.5 million number, that's out of 300 million people in the US. That works out to 2.5% of the population.
According to the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network there were 23,522 transplants in the US from January - October 2005. Extrapolating that out for the year it would come to 28,226 transplants for 2005, or .0094% of the population.
I still believe that the intersection of those groups is pretty small, and I don't think that every millionaire on the transplant list is going to try to bribe their way to the top of the list and/or an extra speedy organ delivery. It just doesn't seem like enough to have a network in place to make it possible, regardless of the other absurdities you pointed out.
Oh, and of the 23,522 transplants Jan - Oct, 17,756 of them were from deceased donors and the other 5,766 were from living donors. Makes it an even smaller fraction of a percentage who were possibly neglected for the chance of their organs.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
First of all, do you realize how closely matched people's tissues have to be for some random ill person in an ER to match some random multi-millionaire?
Do you have any idea how hard it was to find a donor for my mother, even though she had lots of living, willing people lining up to give her kidney?
This is where the Star Trek technobabble shite that sounds convincing can get you in trouble. The chances of any two random people being a match are not great. Also, the better the match, the less trouble with rejection. The drugs that keep you from rejecting an organ can kill you eventually, too. That's what happened to my mom. So a millionaire would have to be really picky to get the best match possible for their loved one.
They'd need lots of tissue samples, then hire somebody to off the best match. Could happen, I guess. At least, I saw it on a tv drama. *snort*
"My teachers and/or people who affected my life believe X, so I do too" doesn't hold water either. Smart people can still be paranoid or ill-informed. I know a nurse who was wrong about what an ER 'rape kit' involved, but she thought she knew, and would have sworn to it.
You seriously don't realize how idiotic and paranoid this all sounds. O_O All people's parts are not automatically exchangeable. We are not leggos.
*shrug* But, okay. Whatever. We never landed on the moon and 9/11 was planned by our own government (did a good job, too -- all that other incompetence is just a clever cover-up!).
*
Personally, I have no problem with people accepting payment for, say, bone marrow or a kidney. Those are painful proceedures, and most capitalists believe that exchange does not take place unless it is mutually beneficial.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:I still believe that the intersection of those groups is pretty small, and I don't think that every millionaire on the transplant list is going to try to bribe their way to the top of the list and/or an extra speedy organ delivery. It just doesn't seem like enough to have a network in place to make it possible, regardless of the other absurdities you pointed out.
I agree. I know people think of the rich as money hungry and greedy but the real truth is most millionaires are just people who manage their wealth well. I think if someone has that much money and is that unscrupulous, they are not going to be rich very long. Also someone that rich could just fly to China or wherever organs are for sale and buy one. It would seem cheaper, easier and more ethical than bribing have a hospital here in the U.S.
Boy, there are some real cynics on here. I have to have faith that most of the doctors are too busy saving my life to notice or care that my driver's license says I am an a organ donor. If God wants my ticket to be up, He will give me an unethical doctor and I can just go to Heaven a little sooner and save a few lives in the process. If it is not my time, they He will make sure I have one of the good docs (of which I believe are in higher supply than implied on this thread).
It's just like some of the threads about teachers. Of course there are a bunch of lousy ones out there. We have all had one or two or work with a few or whatever but for the most part, teachers are just trying to do the best they can. I really think most doctors out there have the best interest of their patients at heart. There are money hungry, power trippers with a God complex, sure, but they are fewer and far between. Again maybe I watch too much TV, but still I would rather live in my world than some of yours (LOVE that quote).
quote:But an obvious one is that the people who make the ranking decisions for transplant lists are not "child pornographers, drug traffickers, importers of illegal products, recruiters for the KKK, international spy & espionage networks", or bear any simularities to these criminals. They are professionals chosen for their ethics.
Given that doctors and medical professionals make up a portion of those criminal networks, I have to disagree that they bear no similarities. People are people. Priests, preachers and pastors are theoretically chosen for their spiritual and ethical purity - how many documented molestor priest cases are there? Policemen are chosen, theoretically, for their ability and dedication to their jobs. How many documented corrupt policeman cases are there? How many teachers that molested their students? Politicians are chosen, theoretically, on their ability to govern and implement policy in a way that pleases the majority of the people. How many corrupt politicians are there?
quote:Ergo, Eros, your cynical conspiracy theory is only absurd.
<shrug> If you say so.
quote:"My teachers and/or people who affected my life believe X, so I do too" doesn't hold water either. Smart people can still be paranoid or ill-informed. I know a nurse who was wrong about what an ER 'rape kit' involved, but she thought she knew, and would have sworn to it.
Hence my refusal to admit anecdotal evidence. You seem pretty willing to do so, though.
quote:You seriously don't realize how idiotic and paranoid this all sounds. O_O All people's parts are not automatically exchangeable. We are not leggos.
I indicated I have no idea how difficult it is to match organ donors to organ recipients, but that I do recognize it's much more complicated than matching blood types.
Feel better, having called me an idiot?
quote:*shrug* But, okay. Whatever. We never landed on the moon and 9/11 was planned by our own government (did a good job, too -- all that other incompetence is just a clever cover-up!).
*yawn* Yep, and all Republicans are Fascists! And all priests are child molestors! And all religion is mind-candy designed to sedate the masses into controllable blobs of protoplasm!
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:It's just like some of the threads about teachers. Of course there are a bunch of lousy ones out there. We have all had one or two or work with a few or whatever but for the most part, teachers are just trying to do the best they can. I really think most doctors out there have the best interest of their patients at heart. There are money hungry, power trippers with a God complex, sure, but they are fewer and far between. Again maybe I watch too much TV, but still I would rather live in my world than some of yours (LOVE that quote).
See, I happen to agree that most doctors out there have the best interest of their patients at heart, that most teachers are there to teach, that most priests are there to minister to the faithful.
What I disagree with is the people in this thread who don't think there are ANY doctors who are in the medical field for a reason other than treating people. One is an acknowledgement of reality - the other is recognizing reality and then deliberately choosing to ignore it, which strikes me as a very dangerous way of looking at the world.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't think anyone on this thread has said they don't believe there are ANY doctors who are just in it for the money. I know I certainly haven't.
I don't believe that there are enough doctors willing to murder for money and enough multi-millionaires on the organ transplant list to make your hypothetical organ ring feisable.
Plus there are many other reasons I don't think it would work. You skipped over the "Also, commitees make the decisions, so one guy couldn't launch someone to the top of the list, no matter how much he's paid." part of Morbo's post, for instance.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:I don't think anyone on this thread has said they don't believe there are ANY doctors who are just in it for the money. I know I certainly haven't.
Here's Theaca: "I am absolutely appalled that some of you think that doctors wouldn't fight as hard for an organ donor. What, you think they fight harder for random persons they never met rather than the person lying right there in front of them? Hogwash."
Edit to clarify: Theaca's quote implies that doctors are immune to external influences in determining who they treat.
quote:Plus there are many other reasons I don't think it would work. You skipped over the "Also, commitees make the decisions, so one guy couldn't launch someone to the top of the list, no matter how much he's paid." part of Morbo's post, for instance.
You're right, I missed it. Sorry.
quote:Also, commitees make the decisions, so one guy couldn't launch someone to the top of the list, no matter how much he's paid.
Fair enough. So let's give you all the benefit of the doubt here and say that my hypothetical situation doesn't work.
Do you still insist that no hypothetical situation would? I maintain that there ARE ways for the right amount of money to move someone up a transplant list, since pretty much everything's for sale in America if you know where to look.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
There was a Law and Order earlier this week about a guy who would donate organs to people if he felt that they were trying to lead noble lives, but this one woman wanted to help kids and be a social worker or something, but then she decided to become a stay-at-home mom, so he shot her and had the kidney he donated to her given to another woman that he felt was going to stick to her promises.
posted
I just pointed out that there are lots of millionaires, more than a million in the US, but I didn't mean that to support eroso's conspiracy theory.
quote: What I disagree with is the people in this thread who don't think there are ANY doctors who are in the medical field for a reason other than treating people. One is an acknowledgement of reality - the other is recognizing reality and then deliberately choosing to ignore it, which strikes me as a very dangerous way of looking at the world.
You are mischaracterizing people's views here. Are there doctors who are in it for the money, or other banal reasons? Of course. There are probably even a few who would murder for profit.
But it's a far cry to go from that to an organized conspiracy of doctors willing to murder for profit.
I don't think I have a Pollyanish, fluffy bunny view of the world. But you are not "recognizing reality" erso. You are embracing a farfetched and evil conspiracy theory, with only conjecture and no proof, as reality. That's sad. Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Here's Theaca: "I am absolutely appalled that some of you think that doctors wouldn't fight as hard for an organ donor. What, you think they fight harder for random persons they never met rather than the person lying right there in front of them? Hogwash." Edit to clarify: Theaca's quote implies that doctors are immune to external influences in determining who they treat.
Theaca was responding to a line of discussion that started with (edit: it was blacwolve) trying to get information on a general assertion that being an organ donor meant one would receive inferior care.
She was responding to a general assertion about doctors with a general statement about how doctors behave. It is not a fair reading of that post to suggest she doesn't think any doctor ever would act poorly.
quote:But it's a far cry to go from that to an organized conspiracy of doctors willing to murder for profit.
I don't think I have a Pollyanish, fluffy bunny view of the world. But you are not "recognizing reality" erso. You are embracing a farfetched and evil conspiracy theory, with only conjecture and no proof, as reality. That's sad.
Even if the organized network I presented as a possibility (note the "presented as a possibility," as opposed to "stated as undeniable fact" that you seem to be assuming) does not work, the point here is: are there enough doctors willing to murder (if, in some of their eyes, it would even BE murder) for profit that an incentive system is possible?
I think there are. There are hundreds of thousands of people in America willing to murder for profit.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:She was responding to a general assertion about doctors with a general statement about how doctors behave. It is not a fair reading of that post to suggest she doesn't think any doctor ever would act poorly.
Sorry, I think it's a perfectly fair reading of that post. When someone uses the phrase "absolutely appalled" in a statement, I tend to see a complete exclusion of any other possibilities.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I would argue that Theaca's quote doesn't have a bearing on why the doctor is in the medical field. Maybe they became a doctor for money, power, or prestige, as opposed to out of altuisim and a desire to help people. I honestly think that's one of the reasons we give money and prestige to doctors, because we need them, and there are not enough people who would do it purely out of a love of the work.
But their motivation for becoming a doctor doesn't speak to how they treat the patient who is in front of them. So I don't think you can use her quote to say that there are people in this thread saying that they "don't think there are ANY doctors who are in the medical field for a reason other than treating people."
----
I do not disagree that there may be ways to move up on the transplant list. I've said that before in this thread. I think it's more likely that it happens through large donations to hospitals than bribery of individuals, but you never know.
I do not believe that there is an incentive for doctors to let people die in order to harvest their organs, above or below the board. I do not believe that an organ donor coming into an emergency room will receive any different treatment than a non-organ donor. I think if it ever happened, that we would have heard of documented cases of it by now, as there have been documented cases of illegal smuggling rings and all your other examples. No one is smart enough to maintain something this complex and involving this many people in completely secrecy for years on end.
I also think the fact that there is only one organ transplant organization in any particular geographic region works to make sure that sort of thing doesn't happen. They rely on people trusting in them to exist. They have a very, very strong motivation to make sure there are triple-checks on everything, or no one would be willing to donate their loved one's organs. Even if you sign a donor card, you know, your family still has to give the okay. If things were set up so the sort of thing you're talking about could happen, they could let all the patients they want die, they'd never get a payoff because no one would donate the organs.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ok, you're saying it's a possibility, not a reality. By the same token, it's a reality that if a person is murdered in the future, the most likly suspects would be that person's friends and family. Does that mean you won't accept care from relatives when ill?
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:I think if it ever happened, that we would have heard of documented cases of it by now
True, and I'm inclined to think that there ARE documented cases of this sort of thing happening. I'll have to spend some time looking it up, though. And I could be wrong.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:She was responding to a general assertion about doctors with a general statement about how doctors behave. It is not a fair reading of that post to suggest she doesn't think any doctor ever would act poorly.
Sorry, I think it's a perfectly fair reading of that post. When someone uses the phrase "absolutely appalled" in a statement, I tend to see a complete exclusion of any other possibilities.
It's a terribly unfair reading of Theaca's post. The original assertion was that "no one" would try as hard to save an organ donor because "they would get the organs." Theaca's post must be read in the context of the post that started the line of discussion.
P.S., blacwolve, I realize you were looking for information on this statement, not asserting it as fact.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: . . . are there enough doctors willing to murder (if, in some of their eyes, it would even BE murder) for profit that an incentive system is possible?
I think there are. There are hundreds of thousands of people in America willing to murder for profit.
Even if the numbers are there, I don't think an incentive system is possible. How could it work? You would need someone within the Transplant organization willing to take the initial bribe and send the word out to the willing doctors. There are hundreds of hospitals in the country, tens of thousands of doctors. (Millions of doctors?) How do you identify willing doctors? How do you approach them? How do you get all of them information on the tissue samples so they can look for matches? How do they get a tissue sample from their patient analysed to see if it's a potential match? How do you launder the money so it doesn't show up in an IRS audit? Every single one of them manages to pull it all off without anyone being caught, ever?
Added: On the tissue sample issue -- what I'm thinking here is that the lab won't do an analysis without a reason that's acceptable to the insurance company. If a doctor is going around ordering tests for no apparent reason, the insurance isn't going to pay for it. Every test I've had done has had to either come off a list of pre-approved for my condition or be approved by my insurance before they'll do it. If the patient is uninsured, the lab is going to be even more careful about only doing necessary tests, because they know they're not getting paid. The doctor does not have to equipment or probably the training to do the tissue matching on his own.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Ok, you're saying it's a possibility, not a reality. By the same token, it's a reality that if a person is murdered in the future, the most likly suspects would be your friends and family.
Does that make you not want accept care from relatives when ill?
This brings up a completely unrelated issue, but to address it: no, that does not make me want to deny care from relatives when ill, the same way my belief in an illegal organ incentive program doesn't stop me from being an organ donor.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Even if the numbers are there, I don't think an incentive system is possible. How could it work? You would need someone within the Transplant organization willing to take the initial bribe and send the word out to the willing doctors. There are hundreds of hospitals in the country, tens of thousands of doctors. (Millions of doctors?) How do you identify willing doctors? How do you approach them? How do you get all of them information on the tissue samples so they can look for matches? How do they get a tissue sample from their patient analysed to see if it's a potential match? How do you launder the money so it doesn't show up in an IRS audit? Every single one of them manages to pull it all off without anyone being caught, ever?
If I knew the answers to all of those questions, I would either be helping expose illegal organ incentive programs, or running one myself.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
pH, nothing. No one is saying it is. What they're saying is that there's a difference between entering a profession for the money and being willing to kill for money. And that it's not fair to doctors to assume that you're going to receive sub-par treatment if you're an organ donor because they might get a kick-back out of it.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:And that it's not fair to doctors to assume that you're going to receive sub-par treatment if you're an organ donor because they might get a kick-back out of it.
No one's saying that, either - I'm saying that the possibility exists. I thought we went over this when I clarified my use of the word "absolutely."
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
*shrug* I thought that the general tone of the discussion warrented it being said. Not that that's your fault -- it's always difficult when you're trying to defend your position against multiple others who disagree.
And no worries. I'm in this conversation because I enjoy this type of conversation, besides the fact that I honestly believe you're wrong. A little snideness doesn't bother me -- especially when I started it by calling you a conspiricy theorist. Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: . . . are there enough doctors willing to murder (if, in some of their eyes, it would even BE murder) for profit that an incentive system is possible?
I think there are. There are hundreds of thousands of people in America willing to murder for profit.
Even if the numbers are there, I don't think an incentive system is possible. How could it work? You would need someone within the Transplant organization willing to take the initial bribe and send the word out to the willing doctors. There are hundreds of hospitals in the country, tens of thousands of doctors. (Millions of doctors?) How do you identify willing doctors? How do you approach them? How do you get all of them information on the tissue samples so they can look for matches? How do they get a tissue sample from their patient analysed to see if it's a potential match? How do you launder the money so it doesn't show up in an IRS audit? Every single one of them manages to pull it all off without anyone being caught, ever?
This reminds me of Chris Rock's stand-up bit making fun of OJ's defense that the LAPD framed him. Like on the night of the murders, the word went out to all the cops: "Frame OJ!"
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
Basically, unless someone finds some evidence of a case where a doctor received an incentive for providing an organ donor or let a patient die to provide one, I'm done. I think everything that needs to be said pretty much has.
(I'm not talking about people who did unasked for "mercy killings" because they thought it was best, I know those people are out there and consider an entirely different form of psychois than the one we're talking about.)
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:This reminds me of Chris Rock's stand-up bit making fun of OJ's defense that the LAPD framed him. Like on the night of the murders, the word went out to all the cops: "Frame OJ!"
That was Dana Carvey. I've seen that stand up a lot...does it show?
posted
I'm sure there are doctors who do that. (Wasn't that a Law and Order, too? Maybe CI?) But most doctors I know of fight until the fight is lost-- and then they fight for the right to make the loss into the possible winning of someone else's battle.
It just breaks my heart that more people aren't organ donors, though, and that even less will allow their children to be. (I just read an article about a family with 4 or 5 month old identical twin boys, both of whom need heart transplants. )
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "My teachers and/or people who affected my life believe X, so I do too" doesn't hold water either. Smart people can still be paranoid or ill-informed. I know a nurse who was wrong about what an ER 'rape kit' involved, but she thought she knew, and would have sworn to it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hence my refusal to admit anecdotal evidence. You seem pretty willing to do so, though.
[/quote}
It wasn't YOU specifically I was referring to, but the idea that many people die every day because paranoid people die without having signed their donor cards. Because daddy said people kill you for your organs. That's just sad.
[quote]quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You seriously don't realize how idiotic and paranoid this all sounds. O_O All people's parts are not automatically exchangeable. We are not leggos. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I indicated I have no idea how difficult it is to match organ donors to organ recipients, but that I do recognize it's much more complicated than matching blood types.
Feel better, having called me an idiot?
I never called YOU an idiot. I do think some of the arguments in this thread seem paranoid and idiotic to people who do have actual experience with how transplants work. I stand by that. But it was in no way a personal attack. I did not intend it that way, at all. I would not set out to hurt anyone's feelings like that.
I like that Hatrack is a place where people can discuss ideas and not let it degenerate into namecalling. I realize that some people identify so closely with their opinions that insult can be inferred, but I didn't mean it.
I'd take you out for cofee to apologize if I could. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
*note to self: if planning to drug Rivka, check with Tante first to make sure said drug is kosher*
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
That's not quite the same as what you said before, though. "Being in it for the money" implies that wealth accumulation is the person's principal or only goal, as opposed to wealth being a side effect, perk, or bonus of the person's chosen career path.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I find it comforting to know that -- speaking as someone who values cold cash more than paltry human life -- there is so much money to be made by offing my patients and auctioning their organs on the black market.
posted
Well, you know, my patient base is kinda young, but I figure that way I have more control over the lifestyle habits they adopt. I push the "no smoking, safer-sex and moderate alcohol use" thing pretty hard.
Suckers.
So, we'll need to do an HLA-typing, I guess. Send me a refrigerated vial of your blood (heparinized to prevent clotting) by Express Mail, and as soon as I can figure out a way to stick needles into all these babies for no good reason, we'll roll the dice.
And, um, it's gonna cost ya.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by twinky: That's not quite the same as what you said before, though. "Being in it for the money" implies that wealth accumulation is the person's principal or only goal, as opposed to wealth being a side effect, perk, or bonus of the person's chosen career path.
posted
Well, in my experience, doctors who choose medicine for the sole reason of getting rich are extremely unhappy. They make everyone around them unhappy.
Choosing a field for money sounds nice till you work like a dog for five years as a resident (yes, primary care residencies are three years but you don't get nearly as much money) working 100 hours a week, call every other night, always being chewed out by somebody. Then you start a career and get sued several times, work 12 hour days, with lots of call. Sure, the money rolls in after you pay off the loans. But you hardly have any time to use it. After a few years of this you become very bitter. Stop caring. Start counting the years to retirement. It's a horrible way to live.
Now, there ARE exceptions. There are some doctors in some fields that make tons of money with little effort. Dermatologists, for example, have a pretty good life. You have to have very high grades to get into it. Cream of the crop medical students. Same goes for Hollywood plastic surgeons. And by the time you've managed to have higher grades than everyone else around long enough to get the high paying job, you've still worked nonstop for several unhappy years. Many many unhappy years, if it is a surgical subspecialty like plastic surgery. Assuming you're just in it for the money.
If the doctor isn't compassionate or doesn't really find solving challenging cases fun, then he isn't going to try very hard to help people. He might even lean towards doing procedures that make him more money.
I sure wouldn't want to see a doctor like that, personally.
Posts: 1014 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Evil Laugh]](graemlins/evillaugh.gif)
