quote:I don't know any famous hippie folk singers well enough to know whether they are smug or self-righteous. I doubt anyone on this board does.
I do. Well, depending on how you define "hippie" and "famous" I guess, but I know some folk singers who sing issue-based songs, have CDs that they didn't produce themselves and tour nationally. Nice people. Not at all smug or self-righteous.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Well, I got introduced to the Indigo Girls because they were a friend of a friend in graduate school, and they did not seem smug or self-righteous either. Occasionally, I think a song or two dips into a self-righteous tone, but I think we all can tend to be self-righteous from time to time. As people, they seem very down to earth.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Dana, I know some folks who fit that description as well and agree that they are by and large great people.
Based on the context, I figured that the people throwing the epitets "smug" and "self-righteous" around were talking about people of the stature of Joan Baez and Peter, Paul and Mary. Regardless of what they meant, it seems highly unjust to label an entire group of people in that way.
If people don't like the musical genre, that's fine, but they should be honest with themselves about why they don't like it rather than making sweeping condemnations of a whole group of people.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
"I do. Well, depending on how you define "hippie" and "famous" I guess, but I know some folk singers who sing issue-based songs, have CDs that they didn't produce themselves and tour nationally. Nice people. Not at all smug or self-righteous."
Ditto.
Also, I think it is insultng to assume that a songwriter who is singing about their views of politics is doing so in order to change people's thinking. Would you say the same thing about someone singing a love song? Dang those lovers, trying to get me to love stuff!
Usually, people write what they are thinking and feeling, at least the singers I know and love do.
Also, may of the issues that those smug and self righteous hippies from the 60's were working for are now so incorporated into our everday lives that we don't even remember that they were not freedoms at one point.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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quote:If people don't like the musical genre, that's fine, but they should be honest with themselves about why they don't like it rather than making sweeping condemnations of a whole group of people.
See also, my first post.
I don't hate the music. Actually, I really like the music. What I'm calling smug and self-righteous is the general hippie tendency (it's a general youth tendency, really, but I think the hippies were probably the first to be so outspoken about it) to believe that they understand the world better than their elders do.
In the '60s, hippies were young, many of them were dropouts, most of them were burnouts, and yet they were convinced that they were the only people who understood the right way to be. They were convinced that the older, more experienced world leaders were oppressing them just for the sake of doing it, so they, the hippies, could claim the moral highground by doing a lot of drugs (because The Man says drugs are bad, they must really be good) and chanting "war is bad" all the time. That attitude is smug and self-righteous.
Certainly a lot of people believe they are the only ones who understand the world. A lot of people assume all world leaders are idiots. A lot of people advertise their beliefs in a sneering fashion at every possible moment without ever considering that other points of view may have their own validity. That attitude is smug and self-righteous from anyone. But this thread isn't about just anyone, it's about those most self-righteously vocal of hippies, the protest singers. (Not folk singers, notice. Protest singers. There is a great deal of overlap between the two categories, but they are not synonymous.)
And I say all this, yes, as a person who likes hippie music. Even if I don't always agree with their politics or their philosophy (I used the term "screwed up" earlier, and though it seems too all-encompassing in the way I used it, I do stand by it on many points), I still think that a lot of hippies were damn fine musicians that made better music than anything that has come since.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Verily the Younger: I seriously doubt protest songs ever changed anyone's mind.
What about Civil Rights songs? ("We Shall Overcome," etc.) Civil Rights protestors would sing the songs as they marched and risked getting attacked, or as they were getting hauled off to jail, etc. The songs helped give them the courage to practice non-violent resistance... and that in turn did a lot to influence public opinion, seeing people suffer for standing up for Civil Rights...
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I do. Well, depending on how you define "hippie" and "famous" I guess, but I know some folk singers who sing issue-based songs, have CDs that they didn't produce themselves and tour nationally. Nice people. Not at all smug or self-righteous."
posted
Protest or political folk music has led me to more closely think about why I held differing views, and in some cases, this deeper introspection--which would not have occurred if someone I artistically respected had not, in a sense, challenged me to think about a topic I had not examined--has led me to change or at least tweak my views on an issue.
(Hatrack has done the same for me.)
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I've got Joan Baez's rendition of "I Dreamed I Saw Joe Hill Last Night" running through my head as a result of this thread, FYI. This is not a bad thing.
That's interesting, Icarus. For me, because I was raised with folk music, its messages colored my initial perceptions of the world, and later introspection has in some cases led me to reconsider those views. For example, I just kind of had as a background assumption the idea that the 70s bailout of Chrysler was a foolish thing, based on I'm Changing My Name to Chrysler. It isn't something that I've spent a lot of time thinking about, so when it did pop into my head 6 months or so ago and I considered it for the first time as an adult, I was kind of surprised to find that I thought that it was the right thing for the government to have done at the time. It's a brilliant song, and incredibly funny, like most of Tom Paxton's stuff, but I don't agree with the message that I took from it as a child.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Those of you who think that progressive folk songs are "propaganda" and not art, do you feel the same way about religious music.
I levelled the propaganda bit first, so I thought I ought to reply to this.
Who says propaganda can't be art? I've got no problems with admitting that folk singers are trying to push their message, and picking some nice tunes on a banjo while doing so. No problem a'tall.
Similarly, I recognize that when the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sings 'Say Ye to the Righteous' they're pushing their agenda too-- that doesn't detract from the beauty of their voices.
I admit being annoyed at the political message of some modern folk singers-- Tom Paxton is especially annoying, IMO, which is a shame, because I think he's very talented. His political songs are such that the message gets in the way of the music for me, and I can't enjoy ANY of it.
Conversely, I don't enjoy listening to MoTab sing hymns. They put me to sleep. If I were synesthetic, I'd label their hymn-singing 'pastel.'
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Would you mind explaining why this was surprising to you?
Well, my image of you, mph, was of a rather curmudgeonly fellow in his mid-thirties; sort of a Dana Carvey's "Old Man" from SNL, except younger (no offense intended). Combining that with you being a fan of the Indigo Girls resulted in a degree of cognitive dissonance. The stage of Hatrack maturity I'm at is peculiar, because I've started to pay attention to individual personalities, but I don't know a lot of the personal details, and so I find myself making a lot of bald (and bad) assumptions about what people are like.
BTW, I'm a curmudgeonly 28-yr-old who also likes the Indigo Girls. Posts: 2926 | Registered: Sep 2005
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