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With the recent discussion of intros and landmarks, I decided that perhaps it was time to speak up. Although I have fewer than 50 posts, you may notice that this month marks the third anniversary of my entrance into this lovely little community. I guess it's about time that I start making friends around here.
I am in my mid-twenties, recently graduated from college with a degree in applied math. I like reading, swimming and long walks on the beach. My favorite color is off-white and I could listen to disco all night. I live in rural southern Indiana although I grew up in Kentucky. The most important thing that I have learned in my life here is that time is most definitely relative.
Perhaps one of the more interesting facts about myself (and I have disclosed this previously) is that I am a young nun. Of late I have found that some people find that particularly fascinating while others don't care at all... take it as you will.
Don't know yet if I'll post any more than I have in the last three years but I thought I'd give y'all a "Hi, there". It's been pretty cool hangin' out around here for the last few years and plan on continuing to read the board.
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Well, then I consider that something constructive came of that thread. Thank you so much for introducing yourself! And I do find your choice of vocation interesting. . . I hope you will join into the discussion more, as you have what is likely an unique viewpoint here. Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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katdog, I'm one of those who'll find your status as a young nun fascinating. Will you mind some questions? If you do, please ignore.
Do you live in a nunnery? (I don't know if that's the correct term - I'm not Catholic.) Do you use your math degree (cool!) for employment purposes? And how does that work what with being a nun? And I'm sure I'll have more questions later, but those are the ones that immediately spring to mind.
And thanks for introducing yourself!
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And I suppose that in your "mid-twenties", it would be quite a trick to be an old nun. Maybe with practice, though. Years and years of practice.
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Tante, yes I am feeling better, though perhaps the main reason for finally getting around to introducing myself was the sheer boredom of being sick and not having much else to do and realizing that I've lurked long enough.
ElJay, I've been around long enough to have figured out the distinctions in "landmark" and "introduction" on my own but it was definitely your thread that finally called me to actually write one.
breyerchic, I live in Ferdinand.
quid, I don't mind questions at all. Although I was being purposefully inflammatory in writing about my religious status, I would not have posted it if I didn't mind a few questions. My community refers to the entire complex where I live as a "monastery." The actually living residence areas are technically "convents" but we don't typically refer to them as such. At the moment I am in what is called "formation" (the first few years of living monastic life) and as such have no formal employment. I mostly do manual labor around here. I do, however, tutor two high school students in math.
At the end of this year I will be allowed to seek more formal employment. I have a certficate to teach high school, so I may start off doing that but i hope that in a few years I will be allowed to go to graduate school to obtain a higher degree and to then be employed in a more technical field. Of course, the community always needs a good treasurer too.
Feel free to ask questions. One thing that I've learned over the last two years is that many people are quite curious about the actual lived experience of a nun.
Otherwise, thanks to all, and I hope to be able to add my views to some of the discussions! Kat
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I too am intrigued by your profession. And since questions are welcomed, I have a few. I'm curious about your internet access. Do they have the internet available at the monastery? Or do you go to a public place? Also, I did not realize that nuns could be employed outside of the Church. Is any employment allowed?
Thank you so much for giving us insight into your life! I truly find it fascinating! I hope you enjoy Hatrack. Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Amanecer, we actually have a pretty decent network setup here at the monastery so I can access the Internet for all over the place here. I have pretty much unlimited access, though I don't usually have a whole lot of time when I can just play around on the internet.
As for employment, lots of nuns work outside of the church, though many of us choose to work for the church in some way. Sisters of this community are state social workers, nurses, veterinarians and public school teachers. Although "any" job wouldn't do, there are a lot of options for people who don't want to simply work in a Catholic school or at a parish
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I grew up in Newburgh (outside Evansville) and was "supposed" to go to Ferdinand for convent training, as we'd had several of our family members at Ferdinand and St. Meinrad.
You wouldn't happen to have seen Monte Cassino, would you? My mother was married there, and I always wanted to do the same. (Now divorced and remarried, this has become much less likely. *grin)
For what it's worth, I come from the Sasse clan.
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Good for you with the internet... I know a nun in a closed monastery (is that how you say it?) who is a user of a Tolkien fansite... but she has to be careful about it with her superiors (they really frown upon it). Hope you don't have that kind of problems Posts: 218 | Registered: Jan 2006
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Hi katdog, nice to meet you. I'm curious, too! And I won't mind at all if you choose not to answer this question, since it is quite personal and nosey, but what led to your deciding to become a nun? I'm LDS, and the closest thing in our religion is probably serving as a missionary, but that is for a relatively short time period and back into the world you go. I was a missionary in Portugal about 20 years ago, and clearly remember being taunted by young men on the street calling us nuns. (I doubt they would have been that disrespectful to actual nuns, but who knows?)
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CT, I love the little shrine at Monte Cassino over near St. Meinrad. I ride my bike there on weekends during the spring and fall (it's about ten miles round trip on the backroad). A very beautiful little place.
Oolung, although we are encouraged to be moderate in the amount of time that we spend on the computer (as well as the amount of time reading novels, watching television, playing games, etc.) nobody watches what I do on the computer or puts limits on where I should go. We are generally trusted to know what is safe and generally morally acceptable for our chosen lifestyle. I can understand a cloistered monastery or convent being a bit more strict.
Uprooted, I went through a long discernment process and a lot of years of thinking and praying and talking to spiritual advisors. That's the short version of your answer. Basically, I knew that I wanted to be a part of a Christian community that shared my values on social justice and prayer. I did not initially know that this would mean becoming a nun as lots of people find this kind of community in their parishes or just in their towns. As I looked inside myself, though, and considered what the real call was for me, I felt that I was being asked to join a monastery to find that community. That's not much of an answer so if you have more questions, ask away.
I have always somewhat admired LDS missionaries in your ability to go out and speak on what you believe. And yes, people are that disrespectful to nuns, too.
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Thank you for answering my questions! The life of a nun is something I know little about and I really enjoy hearing about your experiences. Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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So many people that I know have never really "known" a nun, especially a young one, though there are certainly quite a few of us around. I find that a lot of people are at least a little curious about what it's like to live in a monastery.
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Thanks for answering our questions. I grew up in a predominantly Catholic area, and as I mentioned I lived in Portugal which is a very Catholic country, so it seems strange that I wouldn't have known any nuns in my lifetime, but I can't recall any more than the briefest of encounters.
I had a co-worker who used to use her vacation time at a monastic retreat. That sounded really appealing to me, and still does--I might try it someday.
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I went to a Catholic school for a year and a half in a small French Catholic town in the middle of nowhere Alberta - the only other school in town was Protestant, so, yeah, limited choices. Most, if not all, of the teachers were nuns. We, as a school, went to the Catholic church for mass four times a year, and a priest came to the school for confessions at least once a month.
That's the extent of my experience with nuns. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by katdog42: So many people that I know have never really "known" a nun, especially a young one, though there are certainly quite a few of us around.
Well, in the monastery, I'd guess that there would be quite a few. In my life, though, they are outside of my social circle.
Although, when I was sick in the hospital, I got to know a really cool nun-chaplain. Besides chaplaincy, she also had the stamp to validate parking. She said it was a part of her ministry.
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Do I remember correctly that you are Benedictine? One of my previous spiritual directors was a Benedictine woman. And my CE professor was a Benedictine oblate (and a Presbyterian clergywoman).
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Yes, you remember correctly! Wow, that was about a year ago when I posted that information... good memory. Which community was your spiritual director from?
We have lots of people who are oblates or who make retreats with us who are not Catholic. A number of the really good texts and commentaries on the Rule of Benedict are written by non-Catholics. It is a rule that makes sense for a lot of people, even those who don't live in the monastery enclosure.
Uprooted, I would encourage you to try a monastic retreat if you are interested. They're usually good for people of all backgrounds. My uncle who is a quaker really enjoyed the retreat he took here at this monastery.
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I'm a big fan of this book In This House of Brede. Read it? It's fiction, about a cloistered Benedictine monastery in England in the 1950s-1970s. I got a book club group I was in to read it, and they all loved it too. I'm trying to think if we had any specific questions.
Is your monastery on the internet? I know some communities have really good websites. I keep meaning to look at some online.
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I grew up in Eddyville Kentucky which is in the western tip of the state, about six hours or so from Danville.
Theca, I hae never read that book but it sounds interesting. I'll have to look it up sometime.
Our community does have a website. www.thedome.org You can find information about the community and services we offer and we also keep a web log of what's going on. They add pictures once or twice a week usually of stuff that's happening here or things that our sisters are doing.
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She was from St. Ben's in St. Joseph, MN. I only saw her a few times before I moved away, but she helped me through some pretty serious discernment.
In fact, I mentioned her in this thread.
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Okay. Sounds like she was pretty helpful. I stayed at St. Ben's for two weeks last May as part of a formation experience. It was a beautiful area and I liked the sisters there.
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Anyway. I think during Lent the cloistered nuns in the monastery in the book ate very sparingly, and no meat. But that was before Vatican II. I suppose y'all just skip meat on Fridays now.
Also they had many neat rules such as eating every single crumb, so they individually had to push together all the breadcrumbs at their plate and eat them at the end of a meal. And most of each day was spent in silence. Oh, and they had to give themselves Disciple once week. I think they had to switch themselves for the length of time it took to say a particular prayer. I think most of these things were in the Rules of St Benedict. Are those things still done?
Since you guys aren't cloistered, do you still have Benectictine silence? How much of the Divine Office do you do there?
Have you done your simple profession vows already?
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I just found out that our library does have that book, although someone has it checked out right now (and since we have no due dates or late fees there's no telling when it will come back in). I plan on checking periodically so that I can read it.
From what you describe it sounds very much like life in our monastery before Vatican II. We eat meat during Lent, just not on Fridays (like the rest of the Church). ACtually, we never have meat on Fridays in our community dining room, although if you are eating with family or eating out there is nothing that says you can't eat it on a Friday... it's mostly just a tradition now.
Sisters used to have a piece of bread with every meal. They were to save the bread and use it to clean their plates because they were supposed to eat everything on the plate. One sister entered a day later than the rest of her class and wasn't told about the reason for the piece of bread. She ate it at the beginning of the meal and someone handed her another one for cleaning her plate. Not knowing what it was for, she ate it. Finally with the third piece of bread someone whispered that she needed to use it to clean up. Today, although we are definitely encouraged not to waste food and throwing anything away is definitely frowned upon, we don't have any such rules or customs.
The sisters used to keep silence through much of the day. Now we have silence from 10 PM until 8 AM (or after breakfast, whichever comes first). Once a week we have a silent evening. After Vespers, we have a quiet supper with table reading and then we don't speak until breakfast the next day. Also, once a month we have a Sabbatical Saturday which is an entire day of silence and retreat. During the Triduum (after supper HOly Thursday until after mass on Easter Sunday) we observe Grand Silence, speaking only when necessary for the monastic work. Also, from 4-5 we try to keep quiet in the halls so as not to disturb people who choose to take that as time for private prayer (which many people do). We're allowed to talk in community rooms and to continue our work as normal, we just try to be a little quieter. There are other times for silence, too, but we certainly don't keep it all the time.
We pray communally three times a day (morning, noon and evening). We pray Compline either on our own or in our living groups. We also have mass every morning immediately after morning prayer.
Our community has just changed its formation process. Previously you were a postulant for 8-9 months, a novice for a year and a day and then you could request to make simple vows (or first profession as we sometimes call it). However, a common trend in religious communities is to extend the novitiate. Our community now requires one year of canonical novitiate (the year everyone has to do) plus a second year. I will be finishing my canonical year in about six weeks. If all goes well, I will be preparing for first profession at this time next year.
Thanks for the questions. I hope this helps. Kat
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It is really interesting to read about your being a nun.
Are you allowed to go and visit your family?
Add me to the list of those who didn't know that nuns could use the Internet! I hope this doesn't sound wrong, but my knowedge of nuns is limited to what I learned in the Sound of Music.
Awhile back I had a patient (I work in a nursing home) who was a nun. Every now and then she returns to visit some of the Catholic patients.
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katdog, you use a lot of terms I'm not familiar with. I mean, I've heard them before, but I don't know what they mean in the context of your post, and I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one who doesn't understand. Would you mind explaining canonical year, postulant, first profession, and all of that, please? For the non-Catholics in the crowd... Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Btw, here is an online Catholic encyclopedia with definitions of Catholic words for quid or anyone. http://www.newadvent.org/
Do all the nuns there get up at 6 am or earlier like in the old days? I always have to ask that question. Getting up seven days a week that early just fascinates me.
Also, the nuns in the book were choir nuns. Do you guys do a whole lot of singing, and if not, did you used to? Or is it only some Benedictine monasteries that did that?
I had lots and lots of nun patients at my last job in South Bend. What with Notre Dame and St Mary's, there were a lot of nuns. A lot of old, retired, sick nuns being taken care of by the younger nuns must live there too. They were such awesome patients. I still miss some of them.
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Nita, although I grew up knowing a lot of nuns because my mom was friends with a community in Kentucky, a lot of my Catholic friends knew about nuns only from The Sound of Music, so your situation doesn't surprise me at all. Even among my close friends I do a lot of stereotype bashing and education because most people know very little about my life. I am allowed to visit my family (although not this year - read below for explanation). Most years I get two weeks of vacation time in which I can go to see family and friends. I can also have them come visit me a few times a year. Benedictine communities are very hospitable and very open to guests.
Now, for an explanation of some of the vocab. I have used. Actually, quid, I am willing to bet that even Catholics reading this thread would not follow many of the things that I said. I often take these terms for granted as they have become an integral part of my vocabulary over the last few years.
Charism - the type of ministry and lifestyle of a particular community. I live in "contemplative/active community" meaning that we do work outside of the monastery in various ministries but our main goal is to seek God in community
Postulant - first step in entering a community, can last anywhere from 6 months to 2 years depending on the community. Postulants generally take care of their own finances, can leave to visit family and go to the store, but are considered community members and expected at all community functions
Novice - the second step in entering a community. By canon (Church) law all people entering any religious community of any type have to go through one year and one day of novitiate. This canonical year is typically very strict. I am not allowed to leave the monastery except for community functions and emergencies (e.g. my grandmother died in September and I was allowed to attend the funeral). It is a year where outside distractions are used so that the novice can deeply discern her/his call to community.
Some communities (like mine) also have a second year of novitiate which is less strict (i.e. I can go to the store or out to eat occasionally, I can visit family and I can work part time outside of the monastery)
First profession/simple vows - is the next step of entering community. This varies widely among communities based on their charism and rule and background. Most communities (I think all except for Benedictines which were founded before the Church gave the three vows) vow poverty, chastity and obedience. At the time of simple vows, a young man or woman takes these vows for three years. At the end of three years they are free to stay or go as they choose. After three years they make solemn vows/final profession at which time they say that they will stay in the community forever.
In a monastic community, we don't take the three ecclesiastical vows that I described above. The Rule of Benedict states that we profess (not vow, though we use the term sometimes) stability, obedience and fidelity to the monastic way of life.
Divine Office / Liturgy of the Hours - the official prayer of the Catholic church, we chant from the psalms in alternating choirs and conclude with some intercessory prayers. There are seven times at which the Divine Office is said Matins, Lauds (both usually morning), terce, sext and none (shorter prayers throughout the day), Vespers (evening prayer) and Compline (night prayer, also usually very short)
I think this is all the jargon that I've used, but if I missed something, let me know.
I definitely do not get up before 6 every day. we pray at 7 every day except Sunday when we pray at 10. I usually get up around 6:30 as I shower and do my private prayer at night.
And, yeah, we sing a lot. Every Benedictine monastery that I have ever visited (which includes 8 women's monasteries and two men's) still chant the psalms daily with modes based on the original Gregorian chants from the 5th or 6th century. We also sing lots of hymns of different styles. Somedays we use the our beautiful pipe organ to play more traditional hymns and usually one day a week we have a strings group (guitars, piano and upright bass) play more contemporary worship music. Music is incredibly important to our community.
I'm glad that you had good experiences with nuns as patients. Sometimes we can be very nice and kind... some of us can be unruly and whiny patients just like the rest of the world. I work in our infirmary some of the time (basically, a nursing home here at the monastery) and I love caring for our sisters. They are usually so gracious and loving.
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katdog, thanks for answering the questions. You've given me a much clearer idea of what happens.
Now for new questions...
Prayers. Matins, lauds, etc. At what times are they and are there any specific things said at those prayers? And what do you mean by Divine Office?
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quote:Perhaps one of the more interesting facts about myself (and I have disclosed this previously) is that I am a young nun. Of late I have found that some people find that particularly fascinating while others don't care at all... take it as you will.
Yeah, I'm particularly fascinated. Have you read the "Prime of Miss Jean Brodie"? It's great book by Muriel Spark and the narrator is a young nun. I have to tell you, while I'm sure that you have many virtues that are only indirectly tied to being a nun, I'm excited to have a nun on the board.
So, do you feel pressure to give up anything for Lent or does ____ give you a special dispensation because you've given up so much else? Second question, if I'm going as a question about ___ or your relationship with ____ without being offensive, how do I refer to ___ without taking ___'s name in vain?
I do have to tell you that I'm super excited that you have a good sense of humor, not that being a nun is anything to laugh at, mind you, but you have an easy going thing about your prose that makes me feel like I can get a straight answer from you about even some ticklish subjects.
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Hey, Nita, last year I asked a couple older nuns what their favorite hobby was and they said scrapbooking. I was so surprised, it had never occurred to me that nuns could have regular time/money wasting hobbies like regular people.
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Thanks, Theaca. That covered pretty much everything.
I'm also glad to see a nun on the boards - it adds to diversity and point of view. Thanks for sharing so much of your life, katdog.
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I'm glad that answered your question, quid. It seems pretty inclusive of the basics.
Irami, I've never read that one. I'll have to look it up after I try Theaca's book.
I don't feel pressured to give up something for Lent, but I do it anyway because it is something that I want to do. The Rule of Benedict refers to our monastic lives as a "continual Lent" however he wrote of certain prescriptions for the particular season as well. Our community has a tradition of "bona operas" or "good works". We get a paper on which we write what we are going to do for Lent and then give it to our prioress for her blessing. The papers are then taken up as offerings during our mass on Ash Wednesday and given back to us later that day. I think Lent is a special time of renewal and reconciliation so even though my life already includes much sacrifice, I really enjoy the time of Lent in which I can "give up" and "do something extra."
As for your other question, I think it is perfectly respectable to refer to God as God. I and most other Catholics (although I know that many other religions see this differently, so I answer only for myself) see no offense in saying the name of God when asking referring directly to God.
And as for my sense of humor, I hope that it stays this way. I can make nun jokes with the best of them, actually. Heck, we make them all the time around here.
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quote:Originally posted by Theaca: Hey, Nita, last year I asked a couple older nuns what their favorite hobby was and they said scrapbooking. I was so surprised, it had never occurred to me that nuns could have regular time/money wasting hobbies like regular people.
*gasp*
Theaca, you know that "scrapbooking" is actually documenting family history, right? A totally worthwhile use of time.
(If I haven't said it yet, katdog, welcome! And I'm interested in your descriptions of your life, too; it just seemed everyone else was already asking the best questions.)
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katdog, I'm very glad you're here. My first religion professor in college was a nun. She's a big part of why I decided to major in religion and she was unbelievably cool. Her AoS is Jewish mysticism.
I was actually once very afraid of nuns. I went to a debate tournament at a Catholic school and I got lost on the way to my round and I ended up somewhere I guess I wasn't supposed to be and a large nun (height and girth) yelled at me. I was very, very intimidated. I found out later that the students of that school referred to her as "Atila the Nun" and were just as cowed by her as I was.
I've since conquered my fear.
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" I'm glad that you had good experiences with nuns as patients. Sometimes we can be very nice and kind... some of us can be unruly and whiny patients just like the rest of the world. I work in our infirmary some of the time (basically, a nursing home here at the monastery) and I love caring for our sisters. They are usually so gracious and loving."
yeah, w/the sister I was talking about, she was in extreme pain and in tears, I recall going to the nurse to ask for pain meds for her. So the nurse (jokingly) said something like, "well she is a nun, she is a nun and should be more patient". So I stood up for her and said she is entitled to those medications right away. Luckily the nurse was just making a bad joke.
Anyway, thanks again for sharing these things.
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I, too, have been quite afraid of nuns, at times! Heck, I still find people in this community to be overbearing and intimidating and "Atila the Nun" is a nickname that I have definitely heard (though usually at least somewhat jokingly)!
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I showed this thread to a girl from my book club and she had a couple questions:
How do you adjust to the lifestyle. Do you ever feel stifled? Priests seem to get so much more freedom, are there certain orders who have more freedom?
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I go to a Jesuit university, so most of my experiences with nuns are related to that. For example, one or two of the nurses in our clinic are nuns. I used to see one very young nun around school, but I never really talked to her.
Our religion courses usually avoid addressing Christianity unless you specifically take a class focusing on the history of Catholocism or something like that, and my religion classes are focused more on law. I think they kind of assume people already know a lot about it because so many people in New Orleans are Catholic, but I'm Protestant, so I never really learned that much about Catholic history and such.
Jesuit and Benedictine are different, aren't they?
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Kwea, thanks for the welcome. I'd bet you know a a bit about the lived experience of a nun!
pH, yes, Jesuit and Benedictine are quite different. Though we have both, in a way, given our lives to Christ, we experience our call to religious life very differently. I actually know very little about Jesuits in particular. I know that they are more apostolic, i.e. they are a bit more ministry oriented than we are. Jesuits also form a long history of intellectuals and are often devoted to things like study and teaching. Benedictines, the longest continuously lived form of religious life, come from the tradition of St. Benedict and are devoted to creating a balance of prayer and work in life.
Theaca, do I ever feel stifled? Yes and no. Before I entered, when I asked about what nuns thought about all the things they had to give up, they always told me that they didn't see it as giving stuff up, but more as gaining a whole different life. It wasn't until I actually entered the monastery that I understood that. Yes, I give up some freedom to go out and do things (and have things) like "normal" people. Sometimes that is hard (especially this year since I can't go out at all). Sometimes I just want to go to K-Mart and get what I need, or I just want to skip community prayer because I really feel the need to be alone. I can't make those decisions on my own and that feels stifling, as I am a fully mature adult who was taking care of herself a year and a half ago.
At other times, it is wonderfully freeing. By giving up the "need" to make decisions, I can truly devote myself to prayer times and to community life. This year has been both incredibly difficult and yet filled with grace. There have been times that I have just wanted to scream and run away. I just want to go see a movie or eat something other than our dining room fare. But most of the time when I want to do that, it is because I am running away from something hard... dealing with emotions, learning more about myself, a disagreement. By having to stay here, I have grown tremendously in ways I could never have imagined.
Some apostolic orders have more freedom than I do. It all depends on the community, really.
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katdog, I didn't live in the same state as Sister, but she was always a part of my life, as much as she could be.
My grandma ended up living in their nursing home, and Grandma had dementia so she never really understood that the nun washing her hair was her own adoptive daughter, but it was a really odd form of grace in that.
Grandma never recognized us at all, but she remember Sister because she was there 4 times a week.
Sister was a teacher for her whole life, too, and a school administrater as well (I think).
I wish I had half her energy, and she is in her 80's now. lol
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When I saw your name and the thread title, I thought, "Wow, we finally have a pet who is posting." We have had babies post before and I am thinking it is a matter of time before we get an animal. I digress.
Much to my pleasent surprise, this thread is much more interesting. I have enjoyed reading your posts about nun life.
You are one more reason Hatrack is such a great place--as is everyone here. I hope to see your views in other threads.
Welcome to Hatrack....hmmm. Since you have been here longer then me, maybe I can't say that. Goes off to ponder.
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Well, then I consider that something constructive came of that thread. Thank you so much for introducing yourself! And I do find your choice of vocation interesting. . . I hope you will join into the discussion more, as you have what is likely an unique viewpoint here. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I'm curious about your internet access. Do they have the internet available at the monastery? Or do you go to a public place? Also, I did not realize that nuns could be employed outside of the Church. Is any employment allowed? ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
