quote:`(C) assists, encourages, directs, or induces a person to reside in or remain in the United States
quote:`(A) except as provided in subparagraphs (D) through (H), in the case where the offense was not committed for commercial advantage, profit, or private financial gain, be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined under title 18, United States Code, or both;
I may be reading this wrong, but it says that anyone who assists someone that they know might be an illegal immigrant "to reside in or remain in" in the US goes to jail for 5 years. This probably doesn't mean if you feed a hungry kid you'll go to jail, but it does include missionary efforts by local religious and charity organizations.
After church today my girlfriend's mom was counting off different people she knew that did charity work through the church that would be arrested if that bill passed.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:However, when about 80% of the world would jump at a chance to work in China, your attempt at a comeback takes on a decidedly comedic value.
I'm sorry but I just don't think that's accurate. Furthermore, even if it was, since when is "other people have it worse" an accurate measurement of how horrible something is?
Your point is kind of like finding out somebody has cancer and saying, "At least you're not one of the millions of starving kids in Africa suffering through the AIDS pandemic. I mean, those kids would *kill* to just have cancer."
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Had an interesting discussion on immigration the other night with people I didn't know well - we'd basically just met. A woman whose husband owns a contracting business and I were commiserating on how difficult it is to make it in the construction industry if you are an honest contractor who tries to do things right. Then I mentioned what we went through to get our own house built and a bricklaying contractor asked me who did the brick on our house.
I told him I couldn't think of the name offhand. He then said "Was it Mexicans?" I responded "Absolutely not." He then said "Why not, they do good work."
I told him I was sure they did, but I didn't know a single bricklayer who hired legal workers from Mexico. His answer was of course they were illegal, that's why you got it at a good price. I then asked him if he saw anything wrong with using illegal workers to undercut competition and he didn't, which led me to believe he probably employs illegals himself.
I then told him why I had a problem with it. Companies that hire illegals don't cut taxes - they can't, without an I-9 on those workers. They also generally don't carry workman's compensation or insurance. I don't know if a workman's comp company verifies citizenship before they'll issue policies that cover your workers or not, but I know we had to send a lot of paperwork on each employee to them so I wouldn't be surprised.
Given all that, a company hiring illegals can undercut and underbid a legitimate company that actually hires legal Americans and pays insurance and cuts taxes and does what they're supposed to do. I don't think that's right - companies that do things legally and correct are punished. And, doing all those legal and correct things is what drove us out of business - our workman's comp rates tripled in one month, even though we'd never had a claim - simply because we were in a "high-risk" industry. It's almost impossible to stay afloat as a business if you're legit in the construction industry and companies that hire illegals and pay them cheap wages and don't insure them are a major reason why.
Personally, I think it should be felony for contractors to hire illegals and use their cheap labor to force down prices. They should have to hire people and pay taxes and unemployment and insurance on them like companies that hire legal workers have to do.
quote:I may be reading this wrong, but it says that anyone who assists someone that they know might be an illegal immigrant "to reside in or remain in" in the US goes to jail for 5 years.
I'm not that good at interpreting legalese, but I think you are reading it wrong. Charity work isn't aimed at keeping people in the US illegally, and it seems there is an exception if it's not "committed for commercial advantage, profit, or private financial gain," That seems to except charity work, because no one who was providing food or shelter or ministering to illegals is doing so for financial gain.
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posted
When you're looking for a measure of how horrible things are, picking one of the better places on the planet for the sort of situation is a bad approach.
Furthermore, even in an "absolute" sense, China's pretty good, as the other evidence I provided should make clear. Heck, fewer people live in poverty there than here! (granted, that statistic relies on fairly different evaluations of poverty, but it should still make one think)
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Here's what I don't get: The people protesting 4437 at rallies and stuff... are waving around the flag of Mexico. At least, that has been what I saw at the protest at the capitol. If they want imigrints to live in the U.S., why not wave AMERICAN flags.
Could someone explain this me? It doesn't make sense.
Posts: 2121 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I don't have a particular problem with felonizing at least some employment of illegal aliens, particularly if a system is put into place making it far easier for illegal aliens to legalize themselves.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote: If they want imigrints to live in the U.S., why not wave AMERICAN flags.
All the footage I've seen of the Dallas rally today had tons and tons of American flags. This rally had around 350,000- 500,000 people. Perhaps you were looking at smaller, less representative rallies.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
You're probably right Aman. I only saw a few pictures. I have no idea where they came from, but I find it interesting that they complain about how immigrints should live in the U.S., yet wave around flags of Mexico, and say how great it is.
posted
I see the illegal immigration as a vicious cycle.
We have people coming to the US to get better jobs and money. Then we have the greedy and desperate who cannot wait for the system to process them so they breach the boarder. They often leave families behind and since they have broken the law have a hard time bringing them across legally so do so illegally. Then we have illegals who make new families here. Now we have families who are part legal and part illegal.
All the while this huge influx of people is changing the culture. Foreigners, criminals now, changing the culture and language of the US. I resent that a little. These people are not guests, they are gate-crashers.
If they so badly want to be citizens of the US then why couldn’t they take the legal way? Can’t the America make it’s own decisions on who it lets in and who it does not?
My first reaction was to just give a huge blanket amnesty to all the illegals. That would solve the problem. Then I read up that every time this was done it did NOTHING to stop the flow of illegals. In fact it encouraged huge swarms more.
I say fortify the boarder, give a blanket amnesty, and then halt the flow to something tolerable.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:If they so badly want to be citizens of the US then why couldn’t they take the legal way? Can’t the America make it’s own decisions on who it lets in and who it does not?
The legal way is hardly guaranteed. If you're lucky enough to get a visa and come to America, there is still no guarantee of attaining citizenship.
Further, your post seems laced with the attitude that if you weren't born here, you don't deserve to live here. I think that is a very unfortunate way to view things. I enjoy seeing America as a land of opportunity for everyone.
Also, all of this talk about desperately needing to tide the flow of immigration is nonsense. The immigrants come to America because there are jobs available. When there stops being enough jobs for them, then we'd have a problem. But since the types of jobs that illegals take are far from coveted, I do not believe this will be an issue any time soon. Here in Texas, I know that our economy would crash if the flow of immigrants halted.
Illegal immigration is tricky. Our economy absolutely depends on it and yet if we made it substantially easier to become a citizen, the economy couldn’t absorb the rush of immigrants. I don't see any proposed solution that would create better results than the current status-quo.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Further, your post seems laced with the attitude that if you weren't born here, you don't deserve to live here.
I do not have this attitude. My agenda is the long term preservation of the USA, our ideals, and our strength. And I've said several times that I'm all for immigration, I think it's a great thing...as long as it is done with respect to our laws and culture.
One thing I am still completely convinced about, and what is laced in my posts, is the need for the US to have one language for our long term survival. Once a population cannot communicate with each other they cease to be a common people...or to put another way, will become separate peoples very quickly. I have no desire to see pieces of the Southwest breaking away.
I also disagree about our economy collapsing without illegals. I see this as a big lie from those businesses/politicians that are abusing the illegals for their own profit. They want to keep their cheep labor.
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posted
Telpy, long term preservation of our culture and way of life is exactly what the whites who fought so bitterly against the civil rights movement in the South in the 50s and 60s were fighting for. And you know what? Their culture and way of life is gone now. And you know what else? We're better off this way.
I am not trying to draw any conclusions about your motives or inner thoughts. I'm just pointing out something that sounds exactly the same to me, across the years. Nowadays we look back on those people and say they were racist. What will we think in 50 years about the anti-immigration people?
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quote:All the footage I've seen of the Dallas rally today had tons and tons of American flags. This rally had around 350,000- 500,000 people. Perhaps you were looking at smaller, less representative rallies.
According to NPR this morning, the presence of so many American flags at Dallas was a conscious response to the criticism about the Mexican flags at earlier rallies.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Amanecer: our economy doesn't depend on illegal immigration one whit. It does need a pretty hefty supply of cheap labor, but legal immigration and guest worker programs are both candidates for supplying that.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I think the obvious solution is to annex Mexico. The way they're running their country doesn't seem to be working for them since many of their citizens want to come here. So, if we annex them, we could make their country more American, then they wouldn't have to leave. See? Problem solved.
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posted
What has the rainforest ever done for me? Nothing! I say we take it out once and for all so it can no longer spread its propaganda across the globe. Remember Ferngully? How many kids were brainwashed by the bats and other cute rainforest creatures? Too many. It's time to take back our children's minds and build some nice things out of the wood at the same time. Down with the rainforest.
quote:He then said "Was it Mexicans?" I responded "Absolutely not."
While I agree with the theory that illegal labor makes it harder for legal labor to thrive in certain industries, I find the above statement very troubling. To decide not to hire a contractor based on their nationality is incredibly prejudiced. I understand not wanting to hire someone who employs illegal immigrants, but there are other ways to avoid this than making a blanket decision not to hire anyone with Mexican heritage.
Such a policy and state of mind seriously negatively effects every other legal contractor of Latin American heritage who conducts business on the up and up. To assume that because a person's family comes from a certain part of the globe, that they therefore practice illegal employment techniques or in any other way make unethical business decisions is just plain racist.
It is very common to pass a corner in Houston with a couple of dozen very poor Latin American men, legal and illegal, jumping at the opportunity to climb in the back of a truck and work long hard hours for whatever money they can make. Contrasting that with the crowd of legal American homeless people living under the freeway and doing nothing more than begging to make money, and I am forced to wonder which group should be allowed continue.
The attitude regarding the hiring of minorities and the obvious desire to work on the behalf of the immigrants reaffirms my belief that we need to make it much easier to work legally in the US, and not arrest people on felony charges for trying.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:While I agree with the theory that illegal labor makes it harder for legal labor to thrive in certain industries, I find the above statement very troubling. To decide not to hire a contractor based on their nationality is incredibly prejudiced.
If you read the rest of that paragraph in my post, you'll note I said that I didn't know any contractors who hired legal Mexican workers, and the bricklayer confirmed they were illegal. If they were legal, they're more than welcome to work on my home. It's not the nationality I have a problem with, it's the illegality. It's two completely separate things. I would feel the same way if it were illegal European immigrants that were as white of skin as I am. This has nothing to do with race or nationality, it has to do with the contractor cutting corners by hiring illegal workers or not. And frankly, I don't want him working on my home if he's willing to cut corners that way, what other corners will he cut?
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I have a solution to the immigration problem, we swap. Every time someone enters the country from one of the Latin American states, we send someone back in their place. This way we get all the labor, and we can be rid of our "undesirables" as well. So the next person who enters the country, I say we trade them Pat Robertson. From there we can give up every television political pundit from O'Reilly to Tucker Carlson and all their friends from both sides of every issue. I think immigrants are probably doing more for this country than they are anyway. It seems like a good deal.
posted
I understand what you're saying Belle. From the quote that I took from your original post, I inferred too much maybe. There was probably much more to the conversation than just "Did you hire Mexicans?", "Absolutely not." You probably explained that, while you don't remember the nationalities of all of the people that you considered, the ones that stuck out in your mind did so because when you checked to see whether or not they hired illegal labor, it turned out that they did. I'm sure you would not refuse to hire someone based on their race without first checking to see whom they hire, and whom they don't.
And I'm sure you also realize that while the Mexican contractors that you know hire illegal immigrants, when a contractor that you don't know who happens to be of Latin American decent applies for a job, it is fair and reasonable to assume that they follow legal business practices until you know otherwise.
I was using your quote, not necessarily as an attack on you, but on the frame of mind that might perpetuate racism and unfair treatment of minorities.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
vonk, just to be clear, I'm not talking about Mexican contractors but rather American contractors who hire illegal labor, be it Mexican or otherwise.
Considering all you have to go through to be licensed as a contractor, I think it would be virtually impossible for an illegal immigrant to obtain a license. Of course, many aspects of construction (bricklaying amont them) don't require licensing. It's up to the consumer to check those things out.
Around here you usually find illegal labor in trades like bricklaying, framing, and painting. The specialty trades like plumbing and electrical contracting require proof of citizenship before you can obtain a license. And general contracting requires the same. So it's subcontractors in unlicensed trades that are the big problem.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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And we have a right to our land and culture because we were born here. (Yes, I'm part native american so don't give me that "give it back to the indians" crap unless you want to give me your house.)
They have their own land and their own culture. They come here, their culture will be waiting for them at home when/if they return (and many of them do.)
Now, the beautiful thing about American Culture is we absorb the cool things about other cultures and make them our own. We celebrate St Patty's day. Even if you have no irish blood. We celebrate Cinco De Mayo. American food includes Pizza, California rolls, Moo Goo Gai Pan, Burritos and Pho'. We love where we came from and always welcome in new people.
But we have to do something to keep the flow of people into our land under control. We annexed the whole of this country through unbridled immigration. Now Mexico is turning the tables on us. Once the culture in an area flips and no longer conciders itself part of the nation, they try to break away. Just like Texas broke away from Mexico in the first place.
Our culture will grow with the addition of new people. That's a good thing. We all want that. What we don't want is to be swamped.
quote:Originally posted by prolixshore: What has the rainforest ever done for me? Nothing! I say we take it out once and for all so it can no longer spread its propaganda across the globe. Remember Ferngully? How many kids were brainwashed by the bats and other cute rainforest creatures? Too many. It's time to take back our children's minds and build some nice things out of the wood at the same time. Down with the rainforest.
--ApostleRadio
Yo! The name is Batty! The logic is erratic! Potato in a jacket! Found in the attic! I rock and I ramble! My brain is scrambled! Look like an animal, but I'm a mammal!
...oh, no! It's too late for me! Go! Leave me! You must carry out the mission!
posted
Good God! This is a response to 4437 that I would not have thought likely. It is truely heartbreaking and it makes me want to punch the assistant principle many times in very sensitive places.
quote:1st Walkout Death! Body: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE NEWS CONFERENCE Sunday, April 9, 2006 12:00 p.m. Our Lady of Guadalupe Church 710 S. Sultana Ave., Ontario, CA 91761
Louise Corales, whose 14 year-old son, Anthony Soltero, died on April 1 after committing suicide, will speak to the community and ask for a prayer for her son this Sunday, following the 11:00 a.m. mass at Our Lady of Guadalupe Church in Ontario, California.
Eighth grader Anthony Soltero shot himself through the head on Thursday, March 30, after the assistant principal at De Anza Middle School told him that he was going to prison for three years because of his involvement as an organizer of the April 28 school walk-outs to protest the anti-immigrant legislation in Washington. The vice principal also forbade Anthony from attending graduation activities and threatened to fine his mother for Anthonys truancy and participation in the student protests.
Anthony was learning about the importance of civic duties and rights in his eighth grade class. Ironically, he died because the vice principal at his school threatened him for speaking out and exercising those rights, Ms. Corales said today. I want to speak out to other parents, whose children are attending the continuing protests this week. We have to let the schools know that they cant punish our children for exercising their rights.
Anthonys death is likely the first fatality arising from the protests against the immigration legislation being considered in Washington, D.C. Anthony, who was a very good student at De Anza Middle School in the Ontario-Montclair School District, believed in justice and was passionate about the immigration issue. He is survived by his mother, Louise Corales, his father, a younger sister, and a baby brother.
Ms. Corales will speak to the community after mass on Sunday, April 9, 2006 at 12:00 p.m. at Our Lady of Guadalupe Church. She will ask for a prayer for Anthony, whose funeral and burial are scheduled for Monday, April 10 in Long Beach, where he was born.
This isn't directly related to the legislation, but it does show that there will be effects that we couldn't even have imagined.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
That press release sounds awfully suspicious to me. So far, no one but bloggers and indy media groups are reporting it. Hopefully some real journalists who understand about sourcing and investigation will pick this story up to either confirm it or debunk it.
I wonder how many witnesses there are to the vice-principal's statements.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Telp- I'm sorry for attributing an attitute to you that you do not hold. What gave me that impression was your statement, "All the while this huge influx of people is changing the culture. Foreigners, criminals now, changing the culture and language of the US. I resent that a little." Even your clarification that "as long as it is done with respect to our laws and culture" rubs me the wrong way. I guess I don't understand why a change in culture is threatening. I also don't know that becoming a bilingual nation is that threatening. I don't have any hard data on this (and would be interested if somebody did), but I don't see the Spanish language being passed down generation after generation. It seems like the typical pattern is that the first generation speaks Spanish or is bilingual, the second generation is bilingual or only speaks english, and the third generation speaks only english.
To me, the idea of a nation limmiting its population growth by limmiting immigration has little moral difference from limmiting population growth through restrictions on how many children people can have. I think both should be used only when necessary and with awareness that even if it's needed, it's a bad thing.
quote:According to NPR this morning, the presence of so many American flags at Dallas was a conscious response to the criticism about the Mexican flags at earlier rallies.
Good to know Dagonee.
quote: our economy doesn't depend on illegal immigration one whit. It does need a pretty hefty supply of cheap labor, but legal immigration and guest worker programs are both candidates for supplying that.
Good point fugu. The economy does not depend on the illegality of the immigration. The reason I don't think your suggestion would work is because I believe that so long as there is opportunity here, there are going to be more people trying to get in than we are willing to let. Right now, the economy seems capable of absorbing the number of people that come. If we increased legalization and guest worker programs, I do not believe illegal immigration would be lessened. Could we handle that many people? If so, that would be a wonderful plan.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Nobody commits suicide because their vice principal is an asshole. Look, if he did say that stuff, he's a nut and he's completely dispicable... (But that's a wild assumption in and of itself).
You can't make someone commit suicide. This kid must have had real problems.
I smell "scapegoating in the furtherance of a civil cause." Which is a felony. Louise Corales is on her way to a three year prison sentence if she keeps this up.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Increasing legal immigration substantially likely will slow illegal immigration, particularly if care is made to present legal immigration as a viable option within Mexico. There are not an infinite number of people trying to enter the US, merely a very large number. Part of reducing the number of illegal immigrants is convincing people they could become legal immigrants.
Furthermore, programs to legalize illegal immigrants (pretty much impossible if illegal immigration is made a felony) will reduce the effects of illegal immigration by mitigating them directly. I don't think a blanket amnesty makes sense, but a system for legalization does.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
fugu, I'm intrigued. What would potential immigrants have to do to become legal? How would you decide how many people could come each year?
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I think the assumption of rationality is a bit of a stretch, fugu. For everyone, IMO, not just illegal immigrants. Yes, increasing legal immigration might funnel off some of the flood. But let's be realistic. Skipping over the border will be faster and easier, as well as the only resort for people who don't meet whatever requirements there are to enter the US.
Now, if we increased legal channels while doing a massive crackdown on illegal means, that might work.
I want to see some large program for legal immigration and temporary workers. But, I also want to see strictly enforced, stringent penalties for those who abuse the system. If you abuse the system (don't return when you're supposed to, try and sneak over the border, commit a crime), you go back to wherever you came from, and can't come back.
Posts: 1069 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
It would be bizarre not to attribute a good deal of rationality to illegal immigrants. They're clearly acting with very specific notions of how to better themselves. Whether those notions are in line with reality may be another question (though I suspect you'll find many illegal immigrants doing pretty well by their personal standards once in the US), but that's why education on alternatives is necessary.
If your statement about it being easier to skip over the border was all that was going through such people's minds, then we wouldn't have such a huge number of applications for legal immigration. Or are you asserting that the group of people who apply for legal immigration has no overlap with the group of those who illegally immigrate? I suspect there's a huge overlap, and that many more current illegal immigrants would apply if they felt there was a chance at acceptance.
I think border enforcement is important, but I don't think felonizing the very act of illegal immigration makes any sense whatsoever. I think it is extremely important we build a culture of acceptance; this doesn't mean letting everyone in under no restrictions, but it does mean letting as many people in as possible who want to come in, and acknowledging that those people who have already made it to the US and begun lives are not the enemy.
Amanecer: there are several proposals out there, I'm not sure exactly what would be best, its something that to evaluate would require a lot of close work with studies.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
fugu, I suppose I used the wrong word/concept - you're right that it doesn't make sense the way I wrote it.
Skipping over the border is the rational thing to do, if it's faster, easier, more likely to succeed, and easy to get away with.
As for overlap, I don't know.
A culture of acceptance? No. I don't accept that you can break our rules, come here illegally, and be accepted for that. Then again, you can't put the chicken back in the egg, or however that one goes. So, as a compromise, I'd accept some sort of legalization process for the illegals (with a heavy probationary period) coupled with a increase in immigration and a no tolerance policy for future illegals.
Posts: 1069 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TL: Nobody commits suicide because their vice principal is an asshole. Look, if he did say that stuff, he's a nut and he's completely dispicable... (But that's a wild assumption in and of itself).
You can't make someone commit suicide. This kid must have had real problems.
Whether or not it actually happened, I'm sure some people DO commit suicide at least partly because their vice principals were assholes. And whether or not a kid has "real problems," however you define such a thing, has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's okay for principals to behave in such a manner.
posted
Straight from the mouth of an illegal immigrant:
quote:"We want some papers and we're not criminals. We're workers. We came here to work to help us," an illegal immigrant identified only as Nestor said. "None of y'all want to do our work. We do the hard work and they don't pay us good. If go to our country, you're not going to do it."
"We're out here to support all human race. They're trying to criminalize all illegal immigrants and yet they forget that America is made up of all immigrants," another protester said.
It was a pretty intense March. I didn't get to join rally, but I will be there for the vigil tonight. I wish I could have been there.
So they just want to be able to work legally, and I don't think that is a bad thing. In fact, I think it is a very very good thing. As long is there is a place for immigrants in the US, we should make it legal for them to take that place.
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quote:"We're out here to support all human race. They're trying to criminalize all illegal immigrants and yet they forget that America is made up of all immigrants," another protester said.
This strikes me as a rather ridiculous thing to say. It blurs the distinction between "immigrants" and "illegal immigrants." It is certainly possible to support criminalizing the act of remaining here illegally and still remember that most of us are immigrants or descendants of immigrants.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Swampjedi: You know, it really annoys me when people bring out the "whites against the civil rights" card when we're talking about immigration.
Wanting to preserve culture isn't necessarily evil.
I think the reason people bring this up is because this is so similar. I bet I could give you quotes from anti-civil rights people in the 50s and 60s mixed in with quotes from anti-illegal-immigration people from any time in the last century and you couldn't pick out which were which. This includes the people who were opposed to our parents and grandparents' immigration.
There's so much eugenics and racism that still is heavily laced throughout our whole immigration quota system. So many from this country and only thus many from this other country, etc. What's the deal with that? Don't we officially repudiate eugenics and racism as a nation now?
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posted
Dagonee: its a rather emotional thing to say, based on a gut reaction to the situation I would guess. It may not be the most logical thing, but I'm glad in a way that there are people having that gut reaction.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Without calling anyone a racist, I do think that it can become too easy to forget that the people who are coming into this country illegally are human beings, often desperate human beings. I think it is too easy to start thinking of "us" and "them", forgetting that those of us lucky enough to be born here are just that - lucky.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
kmbboots: are you saying our culture is superior to theirs? Aren't they lucky to have been born where they were in the middle of their culture? *grin*
quote:Dagonee: its a rather emotional thing to say, based on a gut reaction to the situation I would guess. It may not be the most logical thing, but I'm glad in a way that there are people having that gut reaction.
The problem is that it's likely to alienate the people they need to convince.
They're not going to convince the people Tatiana has been alluding to - the people with some deep racist or superiorist motive for opposing changes.
They don't need to convince people who oppose the concept of immigration of any sort being illegal.
The vast middle ground consists of people who do see illegal immigrants as people but who might not know or appreciate the true hardships they face, who have some genuine concerns related to the consequences of immigration to security, cultural cohesion, law and order, and the economy.
That's a vast range of people, some who will be much easier to convince than others. Yet honest statements that acknowledge the concerns and show how they can be alleviated can work to convince people here.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Have the whole world move here, that would be fine with me. But there needs to be one language that unifies America. We are a nation of many different ethnic breeds, religions, cultures... the two things that bind us together are the Constitution (and assembled documents) and our common laguage.
It doesn't have to be English, but there must be one laguage that everyone speaks. Otherwise we will fragment.
Why do we need to have one unifying language? You state this as though it were an established fact, when it simple is not. Switzerland has 4 official languages and has survived as a Union for longer than the US.
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quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: kmbboots: are you saying our culture is superior to theirs? Aren't they lucky to have been born where they were in the middle of their culture? *grin*
Pix
Nope. I'm saying that we are lucky to be in a position where we don't have to risk our lives crossing a border in order to break our backs working at a job that barely pays enough to survive.
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