posted
I'm still a huge fan of taking up a martial art instead of buying a gun for basic self-protection. Especially when the cause is paranoia. It's much easier to stop from seriously injuring someone or killing them if there is any error, plus one can still protect themself if it is a threat. And I've seen small, weak people take down people who were twice or even thrice their size doing something rather basic. Further, there are the health benefits and generally one is taught self-control and other things which help to prevent feeling paranoid without compromising one's abilities to defend oneself if necessary.
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posted
Although I have nothing against the things martial arts enthusiasts always talk about, I have rarely known anyone who I didn't think was really into it because of the macho image involved. This isn't to say they aren't out there. I have one friend who I've known several years, who NEVER talks about his black belt, and I would consider him one who was truly into it for personal reasons.
Most people i've met however, talk about these things from the sides of their mouths, alot about oneness of body and mind BS while they flex in the gym mirror. I like the story, but I think few are true believers.
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posted
It could just be a difference of experiences. Most people in martial arts that I've seen don't flash it around. It's something that they enjoy and it has benefits that they value. I have very rarely run into people who do it for a macho image. And either way, if one is doing it to learn to protect themselves, then they are not usually doing it for their image.
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posted
Well your bound to meet more people who are into martial arts, and since you are doing it with them, your bound to meet more people who wouldn't talk about it otherwise. People like me who aren't interested in it only notice it when annoying people try to impress us. I am actually more likely to overhear somebody talking about it to a girl or something, so the only situations I ever recall are the annoying ones .
My reaction to the self-defense thing is puzzlement. That's less a product of logic then simply of my own innate nature. I understand people who are into martial arts claim that knowing how to hurt somebody makes it so that you won't have to hurt somebody, or something similar to that (forgive me if I don't use your favored wording, though I do understand the basic premise).
My immediate reaction is to think of how often I have ever wanted or needed to physically defend myself from an attack that wasn't at least partly my own fault. The answer is: I can't think of a single one, and knowing myself, if I knew I could kick anyone's butt on the street, I might not act the the same way; I might be less civilized, but I don't know.
Seems to me that if your aware of an advantage you hold over others, you'll keep this in your mental dossier throughout ALL your interactions. This isn't a bad thing, but it is something different from what martial arts people have always told me. I mention this and they say its not about that, not about feeling better or more powerful than other people. I always wonder why it WOULDN"T be partly about that. Even as an unintended benefit, the phychological boost that being more powerful than others will give you must be a heady one.
Many people have great advantages in life, and being aware of them need not register as egotism, as long as they are fair self-assesments. For instance if a person knows he is smarter than most people, then he will learn through experience to assume that he will have an easier time at some things than others; just as a runner will learn from experience what clip he can sustain, even as he surpasses others.
The few martial arts enthusiasts I have posed this thought to have reacted badly, as if I intended to say that it was only about their image and their egos (although maybe sometimes it is). On the contrary though, I have always thought that the allure of martial arts really has to do with the self-confidence it gives people, in relation to others. Maybe that's the key, I always think it has to do with superiority, but maybe it doesn'tl maybe its just personal enhancement. The thing is "personal" enhancements "just for me," ALWAYS have visible results, and nearly ALWAYS have to do with looking better or feeling better in public.
Think about that: people don't get cosmetic surgery to enhance their actual health (usually), and weight-lifters certainly have little need of the ability to lift enormous amounts of weight with their calves (usually). The same for invisible improvements: people don't go on Prozac to improve their health, they do it so that they can feel normal and interact with people; that's always the thing that advertisements show you when they talk about mood stabilizers: dealing with others.
I don't know maybe I am completely off, but I don't get the martial arts thing. Probably because it seemed such a gigantic waste of time when I was 8 and my parents made me go to a class with a bunch of strange kids and a teacher who made me feel bad because I couldn't learn a Kata. Oh well, I don't think it hurt me in the long run. Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Seems to me that if your aware of an advantage you hold over others, you'll keep this in your mental dossier throughout ALL your interactions. This isn't a bad thing, but it is something different from what martial arts people have always told me. I mention this and they say its not about that, not about feeling better or more powerful than other people. I always wonder why it WOULDN"T be partly about that. Even as an unintended benefit, the phychological boost that being more powerful than others will give you must be a heady one.
Well, it might not be about feeling superior as a person, but it is absolutely about confidence and having a justified confidence in your training is essential to winning a fight. If you haven't won it in your head, you'll be hesitant, and hesitancy will lose a fight. The opposite of hesitancy here is not speed, however, but commitment. It will lose you the fight the same way it will prevent you from doing a flip-- any hint of trying to keep one foot out of the pool prevents the execution.
There is alot of ego involved in the martial arts especially at high levels... no one is immune to it and it's impossible to study thoroughly without making private judgements about how to do things, largely influenced by your chosen method of training no doubt. It is, however, absolutely possible to enjoy martial arts without being "about" the ego and even not about beating people up if you take a more artistic, less practical style.
As for getting into fight situations, I'm actually proud of never having been in one. I've been assaulted twice and neither were remotely my fault. I was able to avoid escalating the fight in both situations.
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posted
No matter what, people will agree that martial arts are skills that can be used to defend oneself. Therefore, I figure that if one is afraid of someone breaking into one's home, it is better to have a martial art than it is to have a gun. Even moreso because if the person breaking in has a weapon, they will have an advantage over a lot of people who also own guns, likely. Unless one is well-trained in the use of their weapon, one almost certainly would be at a disadvantage to an armed robber who probably has had more training with a weapon (or so it must be assumed, since they are carrying one and it would be dangerous to assume less). And in that case, drawing a weapon makes them more likely to use it. However, if one knows how to disarm and incapacitate someone, the odds of being shot at are probably less. And in regards to speed, being able to fight with empty hands puts one at an advantage over someone who needs to draw a gun or a knife or whatever other weapon they may have.
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posted
Seeing as thwe majority of police fatalities are when two people are struggling for a gun, namely the officers, I would highly recommend staying away from a situation in which you are jerking a gun around, no matter how good you are at it, unless it is the last possibility.
Now seeing as the majority of your home invaders have the spine of a jellyfish, 90% of the time a gun is used in home defence, it isn't even fired, the gun is simply shown to the assailant, and the majority of them back down (wisely so).
I have seen what a gun can do to human flesh, and I know how horrific it is, which is one of the reasons I always carry a personal defence tool (handgun). I never want that to happen to me or my family, and if I or anyone else around me in in immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of severe bodily harm, then I am going to draw my weapon. I pray that I will never have to use it, but if I have to, I will use it to the utmost of my ability.
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quote:Originally posted by Shepherd: but if I have to, I will use it to the utmost of my ability.
Along those lines, whatever you choose for self defense (knife, sword, stick, gun, pepper spray, tazer, dog... the list goes on) please receive proper training in their use. As many have pointed out, a gun is easier to learn than many other weapons, but it's still harder than "point and click".
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
First, a quick apology for my Trollish behavior. Here I started a thread that was all argumentive, then I didn't clarify or comment on it.
I did not mean my arguments to be anti-gun. I meant them to be anti-gun fanatic. I blame the NRA for much of what is bad about American politics, since their success in polarization politics and fear voting encouraged other groups to adopt that stategy.
Gun fanatics, or anti-gun fanatics do not help anyone.
There are 3 socially acceptable reasons to carry guns. 1) Self defence. 2) Hunting, 3)Historical collecting. None of these were in the minds of the founders when they put that in the constitution. The "Right to Bear Arms" as I read the Contstitution, is given as part of the rights of citizens to overthrow their government if it becomes tyrannical.
If the government is the only one to have guns, then the government has a overwhelming advantage on the ability to exert lethal force. Using lethal force is the ultimate power.
In other words, "The right to bear arms" and our Constitution in particular is pro-rebellion. Some people confuse rebel with terrorist.
On a different subject:
quote:Although I have nothing against the things martial arts enthusiasts always talk about, I have rarely known anyone who I didn't think was really into it because of the macho image involved. This isn't to say they aren't out there. I have one friend who I've known several years, who NEVER talks about his black belt, and I would consider him one who was truly into it for personal reasons.
Most people i've met however, talk about these things from the sides of their mouths, alot about oneness of body and mind BS while they flex in the gym mirror. I like the story, but I think few are true believers.
Replace the words "Martial Art" with "Gun" and that is exactly what I've seen. Instead of "oneness of body and mind BS" its "constitutional rights BS"
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quote: Along those lines, whatever you choose for self defense (knife, sword, stick, gun, pepper spray, tazer, dog... the list goes on) please receive proper training in their use. As many have pointed out, a gun is easier to learn than many other weapons, but it's still harder than "point and click".
Believe me I know how hard it is to become truly proficient with a firearm, thats why I have spent over ten thousand dollars attending multiple facilities. Facilities that teach when and where a private citizen is allowed by the law to employ lethal force, places that teach proper home and vehicle defense. PLaces that teach to help their students survive, not how to run aorund and do cool gun tricks. With the power that a gun gives you, it is required at least in my opinion that you have a responsibility to use the power wisely and morally.
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