posted
I have been trying to Google whether there is a standard words per page average. I seem to remember the rule of thumb in college was 250 words per page, assuming 10pt type and double-spacing.
Trouble is, I used 12 pt type, but my average is still higher than that (even with dialogue and short paragraphs), so I assume that number must not be accurate.
Also, does anyone know what the average ratio between manuscript pages and pages in a hardcover or trade paperback book?
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Tony does but he's out and about at the moment - I'll get him to respond to this thread when he goes online.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I read somewhere that a published page has about 400 words. Take that as you will.
I know if you use Times New Roman 12pt, you generally end up with about 350 per page in MS Word, and if you use Courier New 12pt, you end up with closer to 250-300.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
The formula we use to estimate book pages from manuscript pages (in double-spaced 12 point Times New Roman) is manuscript pages x 0.7, rounded up to the nearest multiple of eight, plus thirty-two. But it's really heavily dependent on how it's typeset. Genre novels tend to be set pretty tightly, as do academic works, while a trade nonfiction hardcover would probably get a much more open design.
I'm not certain the exact formula my publishers use, but with mine, the book layout has always been more pages than the MSS. I know that they certainly manipulate the typeset and layout according to how big they want the book to be. (A decision influenced by printing cost, the predicted retail strength of the novel, the target demographic etc...) My last book was a 287 page MSS, and came out at 381 pages typeset, so that would be the no of MSS pages multiplied by about 1.35 (this was set as a b+ format paperback, too, so slightly larger pages than a standard B format.)
As to words per page, I work in TNR 12pt single space, and average 400 - 450 words per page, less if there's a lot of dialogue, more if a lot of description.
posted
I just wrote a bunch of short essays for school. Using Times New Roman and 12 point font, double-spaced with standard margins in Word, I averaged about 320 words per page.
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The advice I got at Writers of the Future was to count 250 words per computer page (Times New Roman, 12pt).
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Wow. Thanks, guys. This is comforting, since it looks like a story that is 600+ pages in Word (Times New Roman, 12 pt) would be somewhat less in print, and thus less expensive to publish.
My words per page is slightly higher than 250 in the double-spaced NTR 12pt, but I was curious because one writer in a group I'm in has chapters that average less than 10 computer pages while mine run about 20-25 computer pages. So I'm glad that my chapters would likely be fewer pages once they are in print. (Note my confidence. *wry chuckle* )
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I asked my writers' group about this, and they all surprised me by saying that one should use the actual word count as shown by the word processing program. According to them, the 250 words per page or ten times the number of lines are out-dated conventions that are from the era of the typewriter. Round to the nearest hundred words, of course.
I have heard over and over again from workshops and other young writers to use the old conventions because editors care more about vertical space taken up than actual number of words. But, my writers' groupmates are all published and half of them make their livings as writers.
For what it's worth, the old convention I used to use was ten times the line number, using 12 point Courier with 1 inch margins. That was what we used at Clarion West. It roughly correlates with the other convention of 250 words per page. My writer friends are pretty evenly split between using Courier (my preference) and Times New Roman (which does put more words on the page, usually).
Word counts for novels are not necessary and some consider them the mark of an amateur. As long as you use a standard font in a standard size, a publisher can get the general gist of how long the novel is. Novelists are also not paid by the word, and novels can be printed in all kinds of typefaces and all kinds of font-sizes. This gives the publisher some control over the thickness of the book. A magazine or antho, on the other hand, is usually printed in the same font with the same margins throughout (which I realize cuts in favor of using the old wordcount conventions, but hey, just reportin' what I've been told from the best source I've got....) The thickness of the book is relevant when considering publishing costs, but almost entirely irrelevant when considering how much to pay the author for an advance.
Chapter lengths vary greatly and depend on individual style.
posted
I wasn't going to put a word count on the thing, since it's a novel. I am pathologically unable to write short stories (as anyone who read my landmark can readily attest )
I just kind of wondered, is all, since I have heard that, because the number of pages affects production costs for books some publishers might not want a book by an unknown that was beyond a certain size (worrying about the size of an advance would be pointless - I'm sure I'd take anything and be pleased not be POD ). That, and kind of looking around the locker room, wondering how I measure up.
quote:I wasn't going to put a word count on the thing, since it's a novel. I am pathologically unable to write short stories (as anyone who read my landmark can readily attest [Wink] )
I'm fairly certain none of us mind. ^_^
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I'm sure you know this, but to reiterate, it's always better to take up the space you need to write the best story you can. Longer novels are more expensive to publish, but loads of them have sold like crazy. You might get a pedantic agent or editor who will reject based on length, but it's really not one of the most common deciding factors. Besides, fat novels are easier to spot on a bookshelf, even if only the spine's showing Posts: 700 | Registered: Feb 2000
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