posted
My experience with Islam is one of extreme faith.
In college I had a professor of Islamic Studies. He tells about an example he witnessed at the American University in Lebanon, before even the 1980's round of violence.
A chemistry professor was demonstrating the difference between water and hydrochloric acid. (My memory is vague. It way have been a different acid, one that looks and smells similar to water). He had two bowls of it on his desk and was demonstrating that only with the use of scientific equipment--litmus paper--could you determine the difference before risking severe burns.
A studnet stood up and walked to the front of the class, then took his hand and plunged it into one of the bowls. "No," he said. "If you believe, Allah will show you the difference."
He had picked the water, not the acid.
There is much of Faith in Islam. The Five Pillars are not given to demean or control, but as individual challenges to prove ones faith.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I have done so in previous posts, perhaps three times.
Seek them for a larger answer but in general the definition of freedom is "The extent to which the power to choose is limited. In other words freedom is defined by the boundries set on the absolute power of choice.
As for the example I was deeply impressed for once In the Bahama's I placed 100 dollars on red and won! I knew then that to power of Jesus had come down and made me rich enough to take an extra parachute ride! Imagine, God himself making my vacation that much better!
quote:As for the example I was deeply impressed for once In the Bahama's I placed 100 dollars on red and won!
The example wasn't attempting to demonstrate that Allah clearly aided the boy. It was pointing out that the boy clearly had faith that Allah would do so.
If you only gambled because you felt sure that God would help you win, that'd be a closer equivalent.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I have also seen the "faithful" stain left behind when Allah told a young man to explode a vest against a Bradley fighting vehicle. All it did was paint one side red, the overpressure did not even rock the guys inside, they had to be told they had been attacked!
Just because a young and stupid person uses his indoctrination as an excuse to amplify his feeling of invulnerability does not give him faith. Faith is a relationship with the unknowable established by free choice, it is easy to see how the rumor of protection provided by belief gets started, after all, the idiots that die are not the ones doing the talking are they?
You where moved by a demonstration of luck, and mistook it for Faith. You mistook Superstition, a flaw in logic, for Faith, a relationship with the Unknowable Mystery.
posted
The distortion of the meaning of Faith into a kind of worldly guardian or lucky shield is exactly to be expected in a Religion without the real thing. It demonstrates my point exactly, one thing masquerading as another.
Luck for the Vikings was a property found in men, and avidly sought in leaders, since the world could be dangerous beyond the power strength and brilliance. Luck is a tangible (measurable) affair and a part of who we are, not a part of the unknowable. Just because it is invisible does not make it Divine.
posted
You're defining faith incorrectly, BC, and attempting to hang an argument on your flawed definition.
You may as well say that faith is something that only Jews can have.
Do you understand why your definition of "faith" is a useless one?
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Believing that your god will shield you from harm is clearly demonstrative of faith in that god. You're correct in observing that faith can also take other forms, but insisting that leaping off a bridge because you think God told you to is not an expression of faith is something that'll cripple your argument.
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posted
It is sloppy in the discussion of a topic to insist that words mean what you think they mean when they are defined and narrowed in meaning at the beginning as part of the Thesis. Anyone communicating has the option of setting the value of certain symbols under discussion. This assures that everyone is on the same page for the discussion.
Certainly faith has come to have many connotations, its use as noun, name and verb is recognized by me, so I narrowed it for the scope of this topic to make myself clear. I continue to prune attempts to give meanings beyond the topic which seems to be the thrust of all argument against the thesis.
Clearly no one needs to permanently change the definition of faith for themselves as a result of this topic, but they should go away with a feeling of the exact shape of what is lacking in a Theocracy to make it lose its status as a 'Religion of Faith' as the result of my using the word in a strict manner.
That should allow each person a greater utility in knowing who we are and who they are, allowing better target acquisition and identification...
posted
Tongue in Cheek aside what you need to take away from this topic is the simple realization that the only people fighting for Islam to become a Faith, are the coalition forces installing Democratic values and Religious Freedom in in the region.
quote:what you need to take away from this topic is the simple realization that the only people fighting for Islam to become a Faith, are the coalition forces installing Democratic values and Religious Freedom in in the region
While I wouldn't use the word "only" in that sentence, I would agree with the broader scope of the point.
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posted
BC, if you want to only use your incredibly narrow and skewed definition of faith in this discussion then I doubt any/many would even bother responding because then it becomes a useless definition.
Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Useless? Its utility is clearly spelled out. Are you 'Special?' Do you need me to explain it again in smaller words three posts after the I explained its function?
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