quote:You don't have the qualifications, FC. You need to state them explicitly in order to carry any weight. Proof of IQ, degrees with applicable GPAs, awards, pay stubs, and/or proof of authorship in a scholarly publication will be required before Pel (or I, or anyone) will take you seriously.
IQ, most recent test was 170, although lifetime average (4 tests) is 155. I have no degrees. High school cumulative GPA 3.314. Graduated without honors. I make about 35k a year from my part-time day job, run a business in the other hours that looks like it's going to do between 40-50k gross / 35-42 net this year.
posted
You know, I think I almost respect someone without a college degree who is nevertheless "self-made" and successful more than someone with only a bachelor's degree, making the same income doing a degree-requiring job.
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I hate you guys. I took an IQ test and was scored retarded in certain areas and genius in others, eventually getting as a result "can't calculate accurately." It seems I have a thinking disorder -- ADHD.
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I find it amusing that two actual teachers are posting on this thread. Even though my upbringing was decidedly on the side of academic freedom.
I support minimum curriculum requirements in *both* science and liberal arts. Exposure to new ideas in all disciplines lead to more rounded human beings.
AJ (who is lacking a high school diploma)
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Well, I'm not a teacher anymore. You can call me a former teacher, an ex-teacher, an escaped teacher, a recovering teacher... take your pick. Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I was in MENSA until I stopped paying. Then I apparently turned stupid. But I still have the card and the license plate frame!
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As an anecdote, my junior high and high school both allow students to choose their own curricula, and they were both quite excellent.
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Could you elaborate? Specifically, how do students choose their own curricula, and how do you know the schools were excellent? Can you also talk about what kind of schools they were, and what kind of students they served?
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I don't see anything wrong with allowing students to choose some of their classes in high school, but there should be standard requirements in the major subjects.
For example, my daughter's high school is on a semester system, and elective classes are usually just one semester long so you can take several electives a year. She's excited because her favorite teacher teaches a one semester history elective on the Holocaust and she's heard it's excellent, she hopes to be able to take it. I learned nothing about the Holocaust in high school beyond a mention of it while my history class was studying WWII, I think it's great kids can have the opportunity to explore things in greater depth while still in high school, it no doubt will help them narrow down what to pursue while in college.
That said, I've changed my major officially three times and unofficially about twenty. Strangely enough, I wound up back majoring in English which was my initial plan when I graduated high school almost twenty years ago. So sometimes we come full circle in life.
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“Over there, your major is chosen for you based on your performance in secondary school.” I am very surprised to here this, and am having some trouble believing. In the U.K., a student receives career advice and may be encouraged to major in one field or another, but is free to apply to choose any major he or she is qualified for (e.g., I would be qualified for Ancient History, Philosophy and perhaps Theology, English or Classics and maybe even Law, but not at all for Maths, Physics of Medicine.)
I would like to add that, while I generally have a very high level of respect for Icarus, he is being bullying and condescending in the extreme in his attempt to shout down all opposition based on his claims of extreme enlightenment and experience.
“You have a smarmy tone that doesn't help your case. It's not because you are young or bright. If you want to know, Kasie H was younger than you are and smarter than you are and her incisive points were treated with the utmost respect because she was pleasant whereas you come across unctuous and self-pitying.” On the account of unctuousness, I can plead total innocence, as I am being completely sincere. I do not deny being self-pitying, because this is the case, although I should point out that my pity extends far beyond myself. Your assault on my intelligence far transcends any grounds of decency or decorum, and I admit to being ill-prepared, and not a little disinclined, to defend myself. Make of me what you will, and I shall extend the favor.
"You value the opinions of older people you read in books, but not the opinions of older people that speak directly to you." A falsehood. I value neither all the time, but nor do I discount either.
"Your statements are idealistic in the extreme and do not take into account the realities of life." Life can, and must be, shaped to our will. Brecht famously stated that art was a hammer with which to sculpt reality. If we are not life's masters, then we are surely its slaves, and if we are its slaves, for what to do we live?
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"That's why we have lower scores in many measures--we don't only have our elites in the mix." We don't have élites, we breed against them.
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I'm not being the least bit bullying. Frankly, few people have invested as much time in taking you seriously these last two days as I have. (And, as I'm discovering, they were the smart ones, because it was wasted time.)
I explained why I disagree with you with references to my reasons for feeling as I do. You then gave me parenting advice (!) and dismissed my expertise. It was at that point I pointed out that you were being a jackass.
My biggest sorrow/concern today was that Jeesh was getting caught in the crossfire, and believing that I had any intent to belittle her, but I felt it was necessary to point out to you that only a fool disregards those who are experts in the topic he is talking about. Experts can be wrong. But to dismiss their expertise altogether is asinine. For that you call me a bully.
I frankly doubt many posters here would look at my behavior as bullying.
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"You then gave mne parenting advice" I don't recall ever having any discussions on parenting with anyone in the past week or two.
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Pel, do you know how to use the quote function? That would make your posts much more readable by setting the sentences you are responding to apart from your responses.
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/trying to ignore the inevitable frustration of any discussion involving pelegius
A good example of why a broad and unspecialized highschool education is vital:
Much of the generic highschool education now concentrates on essentially being able to competently read, write and grants a basic understanding of most sciences and areas of study (history, mathematics, foreign language etc) and without that kind of background I don't believe one can really function as a part of greater society.
Case in point: many engineers get into the major based on the following understanding "I am good at math and science and hate english" and as a result they don't take english classes and are completely terrible communicators. Basically what this group at least needs is actually less choice in what classes to take.
Other examples include individuals who are so lacking in geographical skills as to consider Chicago an east-coast city, and many other similar examples.
I would certainly agree that some choice in highschool is very desirable. I relished being able to take various electives such as Astronomy and Meteorology, Literature in Film and various others. I would also say that many highschools lack adequate options in scientific and/or mathematical fields (though there are some now that allow students to take some community college classes that may not be offered by the highschool itself).
I would also agree that courses in philosophy would be very valuable earlier on that they are offered in most areas. I feel very lucky that I had to take 4 years of Theology as part of the core curriculum at my highschool and feel that this aided all of us immensely both in critical thinking to be applied to all our other studies as well as a better general outlook on the world around us.
I do agree with pretty much everyone else though in saying that your proposition (in my opinion) gives far far too much freedom to a group of individuals who on average still don't know what is important to know in life, or what they are truly interested in. Even if you're not interested in history it is invaluable to learn about it, and the same goes for at least basics in most any other subject. And there are certain things such as reading comprehension and writing skills that will be critical no matter what field you go into.
As for being offended when older individuals "accuse" you of lacking experience... the absolute only way to gain life experience is to live life. by definition, since you are significantly younger than many/most here discussing things with you, you have significantly less life experience. This is a fact and is irrefutable. The experience that we think you need to gain more of is in the areas of seeing others live their lives, learning what average people think of things, learning where life takes you and others based on decisions made etc. you may have different experiences than some of your peers in that you've mentioned (I believe) trips to europe etc, but this is just different experience and not more.
I've experienced 24 years of life including an engineering degree, 3-6 years of industry experience (depending on hours worked/chronological measurement), have gone to a catholic military highschool, been an officer in JROTC, been a peer leader in many youth and campus ministry organizations etc etc... but this doesn't mean that I have any more experience than my former classmates who never went to college, work at a garage and have 2 kids by now, we just have different experience. it does, however, mean that we have more experience than you... and when someone who has been a professional educator for many years comes in and says that you need more experience so you can fully appreciate some of the criticisms being directed towards you it is absurd of you to claim that they are wrong.
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quote:In fact, I changed my declared major on my very first day of college.
I originally applied for Music. I then changed my mind and applied for International Relations, and was accepted. Then I changed my mind again and declared my major as English. Now, I am changing my major to History.
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After that first day, I never changed my mind again.
Instead I just added majors and minors. I finished with two majors and two minors.
Of course, then I went graduate school for one field, and spent the next twelve years teaching in the other. Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: That is also not including students who enter college with no major or "undecided" - I can't find stats on what portion of incoming freshmen that is, but I know from my own experience (in an Honors dorm no less) that it's a lot of people.
quote: Life can, and must be, shaped to our will. Brecht famously stated that art was a hammer with which to sculpt reality. If we are not life's masters, then we are surely its slaves, and if we are its slaves, for what to do we live?
An infant will put his hand on a hot stove, not knowing what the outcome will be. Life will teach that child the cause and effect of such an action. Before that life experience, the child was ignorant of one facet of life. After that life experience, the child was made aware.
You say life can be shaped to your will. I want you to shape the hot stove to your will so that it doesn't burn you. Ignore certain aspects of reality long enough, and they will burn you - hopefully mildly enough that you can learn from the experience.
Up until now, you seem intent not to learn from anything.
And that is your choice. I'm confident that will change in time.
My choice is to stop this discussion, at least on my end. All attempts at reasoned responses regarding the topic have been ignored, so it behooves me to stop making such attempts.
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You know Pelegius- I am rather young myself- I turned 18 years old less than a month ago. I read Hatrack all the time- if I'm not doing anything and am just wasting my time- I'm probably reading Hatrack. I read probably somewhere between 1/2-4/5 of all the threads (depending on how busy my week is) but I rarely post, and when I do it's usually about minor things- not the big debates (which I love).
But I have always stood in fascinated awe about the collective intellect of the Hatrack community, and I watched as you posted and they critiqued your writing style (which was a bit cumbersome)- but more than that it made me laugh because I speak very much like that sometimes- although not that convoluted, but close. I've seen as you've constantly talking about how adults who view youth as not knowing everything, not being omniscient about the future, are being disrespectful towards youth.
That's a complete falsehood. I'm a fairly smart guy- and in my little town of suburbia I am one of the smartest people I know. I went 2 years to a program at Duke University for excelling on the ACT in the 7th grade, I've won writing contests, I had a letter to the editor published in the New York Times- I got a 31 on my ACT, I have an IQ of 148. But do you know what the means to me- that list right there? Nothing at all. Duke TiP was awesome but that was because of the friends I've made. I know a lot. But I know that despite the great volumes of useless of crap that floats around in my brain- I know that there are a lot of things more that I still need to learn. The things that I really know were things taught outside of the classroom. And to be fair- they weren't taught.
I've learned much about what it means to be a man (though again- still much more to learn), how live a sacrifical life for others, how to think rationally about my emotions, how to have fun (that was a tough one for me), how to make friends, I have a fairly good idea what it means to love (not romantically- just generically), what it means to be really passionate about something. People that don't know me on anything but a superficial level on see Tyler as the "smart kid" I cannot begin to tell you how upset that makes me- because I am more than that.
The entire point of the little bio is so you can understand where I'm coming from. I had a sucky time in middle school, people older than me (and by older I mean- they were juniors in high school) said that when I got to high school it would get better. It did. I didn't believe them at the time because I was just so sure that I knew my life better than they did. Which is true- I did and I do. However with a person's growth in years spent in thought (some anyways), one begins to see the trends that appear in a great majority of peoples lives. History is really built on a system of trends- of which I'm sure you know of better than me. All human lives have some basic situations that occur- they are born, most reproduce, and they all die. Now within a culture, say just American (if that can be made into a homogenous group) the similarities between individual lives are bound to increase exponentially. Therefore to reject the advice of older ones simply because they are older and have seen more of the world in the context of how individuals progress through time is quite frankly, ridiculously absurd.
I find it more insulting to youth in general to see individuals like yourselves- who are smart, you are very smart Pelegius, who just think that the world is out to get them because they are young. This is simply not true and is not a good use of critical thinking skills. So please, just calm down and stop thinking the world is out to get you- because in all honesty Pelegius, they aren't- the world is too busy to worry about you. There are people that care- your parents, other family, friends- even the ones here on Hatrack that try to help- but you constantly accuse them of nasty things- they want to see you grow into not a smart person- but a wise person.
One of the hardest things I've ever had to learn is how to admit my mistakes- I think perhaps now is a prime time for you to do so too.
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quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: It may come as a surprise to some, but, in many countries, university student cannot change their major. Thus, they are expected to enter a university with a clear idea of what they intended to do. If a British student can do this, so can an American student. Indeed, in countries following a European model, such choices are made closer to fifteen than eighteen. I am sorry if this fact does not fit into you preconceived notions of reality. We constantly underestimate ourselves and others because of it, the point I tried to make in my "Education in a Culture of Mediocrity" thread.
Actually, a lot of the countries where you HAVE to pick a field before entering school do this for a very good reason: the government supports higher education A LOT. If the government is going to pay for your education, then they have a right to see that you don't spend your time screwing around. As for students choosing a career at 14, I assume you are talking about the Gymnasium type of school system (Of course, we all know what assuming does...) And at fourteen they don't have to say, "I want to be a bio-engineer" They have to say, "I want to take a course that will allow me to go on the to next level of education, rather than just enough to be a functioning member of society." The choice of an actual career is often delayed, along with the entrance of the university--often years after they would have begun school in the USA, so that they have time to be sure they want to pursue this course.
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Well, I just want to pipe in quickly to say that Icarus was definitely not bullying Pel in any way. Also, to say that Pel is a prime example that intelligence does not equal maturity.
Oh, and Shawshank, excellent post. Maybe Pel will listen to you because you're not a closed-minded old fogey like the rest of us (although I doubt it).
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I'm 21. There's a good chance that I'll be graduating with the major I started with. That said...
I don't find Icarus's assertions about young people insulting. Obviously, it would be silly to dismiss me completely because I'm young, but it's certainly not out of line for him to say that I have less life experience than he does. I've never held a job for more than a summer, never married or had children, never owned or rented my own place. Heck, I haven't even done my own taxes yet. I can see how far I've come in the past few years, and I have reason to believe that I was already pretty mature for my age when I was young. I'm always happy to listen to the advice of more experienced people because often, they do know what they're talking about.
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I'm also 21 and will be graduating with the major I started with. Well, kinda. I came into my college without a plan (though my transcript said "English" for the longest time, likely based solely on a small comment in my interview.)My major really isn't a major and if any of my credits tranferred I would have left at some point. Basically, I'm getting my BA in Liberal Arts (Humanities). Its such a broad major that its lost all practicality. I will be graduating in the spring quite prepared for graduate school but with absolutely no real-world knowledge or skills, a valuable piece of information that was left out during my recruitment.
I find it amazing that there are people picking majors or involved courses of study in high school, much less middle school. I know I was thrilled when I graduated from high school because I would finally have the freedom to specialize. Sadly, as much as I adore the small seminars and philosophy departments that a liberal arts college can provide, I wasn't too fond of the sheer amount of math and science courses that I needed to take. Those were some precious writing and philosophy hours down the drain. I'm typing this post as I avoid doing a lab report for an advanced Physics class, a class I had to beg my way into since our college doesn't require us to take the same prerequisites that the university says we need. I've been making up the math as I go.
I'm all for exposure to a variety of academic and artistic fields, but I feel it has to be done in compliment to a common structure to compliment some kind of standards. I would have been thankful for any information in high school on the schools of thought and theology. It would have saved me a year of stressing about literary theory and how I just didn't care about post-modernism.
Except for those planning to attend graduate school, college is the last stop for most people before they enter the real world. I think four-year of specialized study is great place to start. Before then its about making sure students have the skills to do well in a college classroom and perhaps letting them have one chance to try lots of new things without consequence. I wish high schools offered as many electives as colleges. Atleast if you've tried it in high school you're not wasting hours that need to be spent on obtaining a degree. As much as I'd love to take more creative writing classes or try my hand at art, my school won't give me my diploma unless I finish Ecology and sacrifice a year of my health and sanity to complete a thesis.
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FlyingCow, just turn off the stove. Behold, life is shaped to our intent. Isn't that what science and philosophy are all about, shutting off stoves?
I know I drag out this quote from Hugo at every given oppurtunity, but
quote: To conquer matter is the first step; to realize the ideal is the second. Reflect on what progress has already accomplished. Formerly, the first human races beheld with terror the hydra pass before their eyes, breathing on the waters, the dragon which vomited flame, the griffin who was the monster of the air, and who flew with the wings of an eagle and the talons of a tiger; fearful beasts which were above man. Man, nevertheless, spread his snares, consecrated by intelligence, and finally conquered these monsters. We have vanquished the hydra, and it is called the locomotive; we are on the point of vanquishing the griffin, we already grasp it, and it is called the balloon. On the day when this Promethean task shall be accomplished, and when man shall have definitely harnessed to his will the triple Chimaera of antiquity, the hydra, the dragon and the griffin, he will be the master of water, fire, and of air, and he will be for the rest of animated creation that which the ancient gods formerly were to him. Courage, and onward!
Shawshank, I do not think that the world is "out to get" young people in any direct manner. What we do have, though, is a culture which excessively values knowledge from direct experience. In studying history, and, indeed, in studying all subjects, we hope to be able to learn from the experience of others. We are able to do this quite successfully, and yet, for some reason which remains mysterious to me, our culture downgrades this as "book-learning."
posted
I just keep getting dragged back in. You sure you're not related to Tres or Baldar?
quote:FlyingCow, just turn off the stove. Behold, life is shaped to our intent. Isn't that what science and philosophy are all about, shutting off stoves?
The infant is ignorant of the concept of "stove" - as the infant is ignorant of the concept of turning said object "on" or "off". Through life experience, the infant learns these concepts and how to apply them.
A group of caring people on this board are telling you in a variety of ways "Look! Stove! Hot!" and trying to explain how to avoid getting burned. Sometimes one has to learn the hard way, as you seem intent on doing.
As you're not suspended in temporal stasis, time will march on, and life experience will thrust itself upon you whether you like it or not, refining and deepening your understanding and opinions. Of that I have no doubt.
I look forward to the day when the "angry young man" is replaced by the "wise mature man".
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The thing about your quote, Pel, is that it would seem to suggest that humanity is now godlike. In retrospect, don't you think it's obvious that the bar was set a little low?
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quote:There's a place in the world for the angry young man With his working class ties and his radical plans He refuses to bend, he refuses to crawl, He's always at home with his back to the wall. And he's proud of his scars and the battles he's lost, And he struggles and bleeds as he hangs on the cross- And he likes to be known as the angry young man.
Give a moment or two to the angry young man, With his foot in his mouth and his heart in his hand. He's been stabbed in the back, he's been misunderstood, It's a comfort to know his intentions are good. And he sits in a room with a lock on the door, With his maps and his medals laid out on the floor- And he likes to be known as the angry young man.
quote:FlyingCow, thus, knowledge must precede action.
Pelegius, thus, learning precedes knowledge. Yet, you refuse to listen, and thus you don't learn.
Or, I should say, you limit your sources of learning overmuch, denying knowledge gained by listening to others with direct experience. You willfully paint an incomplete picture.
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I'm 21, and I just graduated with a different degree than my original one. Although they were related.
But both of those majors were completely different from what I thought I wanted to do in high school. And I'm hoping to go to grad school for something entirely unrelated.
Shawshank, I do not think that the world is "out to get" young people in any direct manner. What we do have, though, is a culture which excessively values knowledge from direct experience. In studying history, and, indeed, in studying all subjects, we hope to be able to learn from the experience of others. We are able to do this quite successfully, and yet, for some reason which remains mysterious to me, our culture downgrades this as "book-learning."
That is because direct experience is the most efficient and in actuality is the most valuable. Life is not a series of intellectual curiosities- but rather it is a continuous ride on emotional roller coaster. Do you think you can grasp the horror of the holocaust of some book better than you can if you spoke to a surviving victim? Do you think that by reading the DSM-IV that can understand how a person with Bipolar person thinks and acts differently from the rest of the society, or how it affects their family? Is reading a book describing a hike through the Appalachian Trail the same thing as hiking it yourself?
And more importantly- can you really learn how to function in a community from authors that never even lived in our communities for they are centuries dead? What teaches you to be a parent- reading a parenting book, maybe even babysitting occassionally- or actually raising a child? What do you want to be like when you are older? I'm sorry but those questions are far more important than Existantialism or Non-Euclidean Geometry.
That is because in the end- practice is greater than theory. Some people think that Communism was great in theory (many still do) but think that in practice it was utterly terrible. Ideas are different in place in reality than as a mere abstract thought in the back of your mind.
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"Do you think you can grasp the horror of the holocaust of some book better than you can if you spoke to a surviving victim?" I have spoken to victims, but this too is an indirect experience. I have never lived through the Holocaust. I do not believe that it is necessary to live through horror to realize its horror, nor, clearly, do I think such a thing would be advisable, as that would entail recreating the Holocaust. Can we not learn to prevent something we have not lived through? If so, then we are truly damned.
FlyingCow, I do learn, I learnt long ago not to believe everything I was told, but to trust my own intellect and intuition over others advice. Maybe they are right and I am wrong, but this way, my mistakes, and successes, are my own.
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Practice is not greater than theory, both must be had in appropriate dosages for effectice engagement. I will say, though, that the dosage of practice is larger than the dosage of theory.
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quote:FlyingCow, thus, knowledge must precede action.
Pelegius, thus, learning precedes knowledge. Yet, you refuse to listen, and thus you don't learn.
Or, I should say, you limit your sources of learning overmuch, denying knowledge gained by listening to others with direct experience. You willfully paint an incomplete picture.
I believe there is more to the process of learning than just these three items. When done in a real life model it is (at least I think it is): Experience->Observations of experience->Critically thinking on experience and its results->Learn from the experience->Knowledge.
In a more controlled environment (say- a greater empirical one) it would be: Observation of anything->Test (the experience)-> Observations of differences of the unidentified object or situation-> Learn the cause of the difference (via continuous testing and observing)-> Knowledge.
While at the same one is completing any one of those models of learning- more situations are occuring and if they are observant can continually learn from that around them.
In the end Pelegius- it is important to note that you will never be able to learn as much from reading of another person's experiences for one very simple reason. You are not that person- you see the world in a different way that the other person- you've had different experiences than the one on whom you're relying on. Therefore they think differently than you so when you rely on their thoughts and feelings from a stimuli to which you are completely inexperienced with you are taking thoughts that might or might not be the ones you think and feelings you may or may not feel when put into that situation. When placed there though in that situation you might learn more about yourself and the stimulus whatever it may be.
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Question, Pel. Say you are studying the reign of Philip of Macedonia and the world climate that led to Alexander's rise to power.
For source material on this subject, which would you prefer:
a) A paper written by a high school student on the subject
b) A paper written by a Ph.D. candidate on the subject
c) A paper written by a well respected, well published expert in the field who teaches at a prestigious university
d) A historical account written by a world renowned scholar in the field from the medieval period based on documents which have since been lost
e) A historical account written by a renowned historian who lived in the time period and wrote of personal interactions with Philip and the young Alexander? (and even here, you have the choice of translation or original Greek)
f) Documents written by Philip himself, or other key players at the time - personal correspondences, military orders, economic records, etc - discovered in an archaelogical dig
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posted
All. E and F are very important in the study of history, but their individual biases must be reconized, the Mediæval work is important in judging Phillip's reputation in historical times, etc.
And FlyingCow, I do listen, I do not, however, always agree.
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FlyingCow, becouse history has traditionaly been primarily or exculsively the study of period texts, this is, rightly, changing as history and archaelogy begin to become more complimentary, but such texts are still, and doubtless always will be, of great importance.
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posted
How do you feel about history being written by the victors?
A historian I know and respect, told me he once administered a one word final to one of his favorite classes.
The question was "Why?"
The correct answer was: "It seemed like a good idea at the time"
How do you feel about that sort of perspective on history? The man has outstanding academic credentials yet he still says that's what history boils down to.
posted
Pel, I think the point most of us are accusing you of not listening to is that there is legitimate value in actual first-hand experience. I keep hearing over and over again from you that one doesn't need experience (at least as long as one has a lot of book learning).
They say a picture is worth a thousand words, if that is true then a moment sitting in the actual presence of that scene is worth 10,000 pictures or more. Just in terms of sensory perceptions I could spend 100 pages describing my experience sitting in my cubicle right now writing this.
None of us are saying that book learning isn't valuable, and certainly it can at times lead us in place of experience (see the stove example) but at other times it can't do justice to the full force of reality.
The reason you don't seem to value experience is that you're inexperienced enough not to know better.
A good example from my life: I was a fairly confident and responsible kid, but my first time travelling solo down to chicago(at 16) (taking the train in, finding the right bus routes, buying my own tickets, fending for my self for food all day and finding my way without instruction to the particular lecture hall in the planetarium I was looking for) I was scared as all hell (even though I knew in my mind what the steps were that I needed to take. However, after one or two times I was so much more comfortable, because I had picked up on the little things: where the ticket vendoring machine was, where are some convenient restaraunts, how long between busses, what does the door I'm looking for look like...)
It's not so much that my book learning was bad or useless (it did get me there) but it was incomplete.
The way I see you is with a high Int, but a very low Wis... work on that please, for your own good. And watch "Wierd Science" while you're at it, I think you'd benefit from it.
Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2006
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"BannaOj," yes, it usualy is. Or rather, their sources are most common, although the vanquished have often provided their views as well. The most important thing to remember is that all history is written by human beings, who cannot be trusted.
FlyingCow, I am not ignoring you, but neither do I pretend to understand what you are getting at.
Posts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Strangely enough, I wound up back majoring in English which was my initial plan when I graduated high school almost twenty years ago. So sometimes we come full circle in life.
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