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I've only very recently gotten into them, but I love everything I've heard so far. It's actually pretty random. A New Order song came on my Pink Floyd Pandora radio station, and I loved it. So I went to downloaded some of their stuff. For some reason, some of the music made me think of the song from Donnie Darko(Love Will Tear Us Apart). Found out that was done by a band named Joy Division and downloaded some of their music. It was only just today while messing around on the internet doing a search on New Order that I found out the surviving members of Joy Division formed New Order! Which I then realized I should've known having seen 24 Hour Party People some time ago!
Anyway, I've been on a new music binge recently, and if anyone is into this kind of music and has any recommendations of some other bands I might like, I'd love to hear them.
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Also, for anyone familiar with all things 'New Order', I have a question. The song Age of Consent sounds incredibly familiar. Was it ever used in a movie? Where do I know it from???
Though come to think of it, a lot of their music sounds familiar. True Faith sounds really familiar. I also know Tempation from Trainspotting. Maybe that's why their sound sounds so familiar. Or maybe it just reminds me of the 80s.
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Strider: I've you haven't already done so you might want to check out the following bands: Roxy Music, Soft Machine.
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Age of Consent has been used for promotion of the upcoming Sophia Copola movie about Marie Antoinette. In the past I'm aware of Shell-Shock, Bizarre Love Triangle, True Faith, Temptation and several other songs being used in films throughout the eighties and early nineties so perhaps this is where you heard some of it from.
Salient facts and opinions about New Order/Joy Division:
**Been an obsessive fan since I fully discovered them in '89 (was aware of True Faith, and Blue Monday 1988 and Round and Round in eighties but was unaware of who recorded them).
*Joy Division's "Closer" is generally considered a masterpiece and one of the greatest albums of the eighties.
*Joy Division's lead singer committed suicide immediately following its recording and preceeding its release.
*Joy Division has been prominently featured in one movie (24 Hour Party People), and Ian Curtis, their dead frontman will be the focus of the upcoming 2007 film, "Control" which is now shooting in England.
*Joy Division's "Love Will Tear Us Apart" is regarded by most as the greatest song to come out of England in the previous 25 years, finishing second to Robbie Williams, "Angel's" which he publicly apologized to the band for.
*New Order's Temptation formed the blueprint for technopop in the eighties and nineties, and Blue Monday, essentially an experiment to test new sequencers and other equipment, turned into the biggest selling 12 inch dance record of all time, a record I believe it still holds.
New Order's most famous songs are:
Blue Monday True Faith Bizarre Love Triangle Round and Round World In Motion Regret Crystal (the video of which inspired the name for "The Killers" of "Mr. Brightside" fame).
**They're an amazing band that fuse dance elements with standard four piece arrangements beautifully and Peter Hook, their bassist, plays bass in a style he invented which is generally as lead, in front of guitars in quite a melodic fashion.
Albums to check out:
Power Corruption and Lies (for Age of Consent, Blue Monday, Your Silent Face, and Leave Me Alone)
Low-Life (Generally regarded as one of their two masterpieces)
Substance (the Singles and B-Sides album)
Technique (Their other masterpiece although "Fine time" hasn't aged well).
Albums to avoid:
Movement (obvious that they lacked direction in the months following Ians death)
Brotherhood (Production quality is very bland, though songs are solid)
Republic (Band was leaving record company and fighting throughout recordings, broke up for five years immediately after, Regret and Special are amazing, the rest of the album is mediocre or outright awful).
Joy Division:
Closer, and Unknown Pleasures are both considered 5 stars out of 5 stars caliber albums, but are also extraordinarily heavy in terms of lyrics and dark music so beware if it isn't your kind of thing.
The band, despite an image as gloom merchants, are actually very down to earth types who hail from working class neighborhoods in manchester and have none of U2's pomp or self-importance (oddly Bono is quoted as having said that after Ian died, he figured he'd take on Ian's mantle as the voice of the generation in music) and essentially spend their time having fun and taking the piss out of everything and everyone that they perceive as too serious or self-absorbed, particularly eachother.
quote:Age of Consent has been used for promotion of the upcoming Sophia Copola movie about Marie Antoinette.
I don't think i've seen anything for that. Maybe it's just on of those cases of immediately loving the song so much, that it seems like it's been with you forever.
Blue Monday isn't on Power Corruption and Lies...
Also, did someone cover Blue Monday. Like a harder band?
Temptation was always one of my favorite songs on the Trainspotting Soundtrack(with Perfect Day and Underworld - Born Slippy), but I never paid any attention to who the artists were on the album. Or I might've found them years ago.
Thanks for the recommendations Eduardo.
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Orgy covered Blue Monday but we don't talk about that.
Roxy Music is a band that was fronted by Bryan Ferry and had Brian Eno playing on keyboards (He is most famous for his ambient music and his wizardry as a producer). They are great.
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Anything Box is another good group with a similar sound. Their sometimes anti-organized religion lyrics might be a bit hard to take for some.
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Yes no need to talk about Orgy, or their having supposedly given short shrift to the original. The tune has been covered a million times, Kylie Minogue even added a bit of it to a later day version of "Can't get you out of my head". As for blue monday being on PCL. Indeed it was, in two versions, but not in the intial vinyl release. It was added to later versions, the American versions I believe, along with the instrumental, "The Beach," which is actually a better version of the music (much like the thieves like us instrumental is superior version of the music compared to the vocal version, and ditto Vanishing Point's Making out Mix (instrumental)).
As for Anything Box, nice call, they had a hit with their first album, but the rest were damn near impossible to find in the nineties (I managed to track down Hope later on), but for me, they have a distressing habit like Erasure, Depeche Mode, or Camouflage or Cetu Javu etc of getting very tedious to listen to after the first few weeks or month or so of getting an album. I think it's the sameness of the writing and sound, whereas New Order has a lot of influences coming in, and because of that and the range of their tastes their good stuff never seems to get old, to me an anyway.
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Wow! What a topic! Enough to even make me crawl out of my lurking shell. I love New Order. Joy Division has always been too heavy for me, with the exception of LWTUA and a couple others.
I have to second just about everything Graywolfe said, although I wouldn't tell you to avoid any of the albums. It's funny, I too discovered New Order in 89 or so. I had heard a few of their songs but didn't know the name of the band. Unfortunately, coming in late like that, I missed all their tours. I finally got to see them on the Area One tour back in 2001.
Truly similar bands are hard to come by, I'm not sure there are any. In addition to the bands already mentioned though, I would say The Wild Swans, The Ocean Blue, The Rentals (first album), and Pet Shop Boys are somewhat close. 1979 by the Smashing Pumpkins was inspired by New Order's sound.
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Simon Reynolds is the author of "Rip It Up and Start Again: PostPunk 1978-1984," which I just finished reading yesterday. Very interesting and a great overview -- and if you go to the Web site you'll find a discography.
There's so much I didn't know about the period because Americans sort of experience it second-hand, after the fact (esp. since I didn't discover PostPunk/New Wave, etc. until 1989). It turns out that some of the bands we think were one-hit wonders put out amazing albums. It also turns out that some of the foolishness that we thought was part of post punk was actually inspired by (sort of) substantive aesthetics -- a reaction to prog rock and disco and punk.
Genres such as thrash, industrial, gothic, all forms of electronica, grunge, alt-country and pretty much all post-hair band rock bands, and even hip-hop owe a little or a lot to the fervent experimenting with sounds, style, etc. that took place during the post-punk era.
Just to tag on to Ben's comment on Roxy Music. Roxy Music, Velvet Underground, The Doors, Kraftwerk and David Bowie are the most prevalent, major influences of post punk.
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I should also add that many of today's most popular bands are directly taking their influence from post punk -- Arctic Monkeys, Franz Ferdinand, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, The Killers, etc...
And if you like Joy Division, Interpol's "Turn On The Bright Lights" is an almost sure bet. At first I saw them as only poseurs, but after taking a closer listen to the album I think it really stands up as further exploration of some of the textures and themes that Joy Division set out.
----- I should also also add that post punk encapsulated a variety of styles of music -- it was more about filling the space created by punk's killing of rock/pop than any particular sound -- but a huge part of it was pop-oriented. In other words, there's probably a lot of stuff in the period that you won't like, but just about anyone could find some band or album or song that they'd totally dig.
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The freaky thing about Interpol is that their vocalist is a dead ringer for Ian, in terms of tones. I think they go after a vaguely similar sound too, but their songs are more the everyday. Joy Division's music+lyrics always seemed to be about exploring hell, desperation, madness, illness, and intense, unrelenting pain. Interpol doesn't try to cop that exactly, just sort of the tone of the music, and Ian's vocal which is a bit peculiar.
As for avoiding New Order albums, I mean it more as a beginers guide. Substance and Technique always seemed to be the best bet to win fans because substance had all the hits from '81-'87 and really captured the evolution of the bands sound (i remember thinking they had multiple vocalists because the guy singing Ceremony/In a lonely place, and Everything Gone Green/Procession didn't sound remotely like the guy singing Thieves Like us or Perfect Kiss, and the vocalist on those didn't sound much at all like the guy singing on 1963 (one of their all time great tunes) and it's A-Side True Faith.), and Technique because its their masterwork catching them at their greatest heights in terms of guitar work, and in terms of synths (although you can skip the opener and that would be fine with me).
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Just to expand a bit on graywolfe's comment on guitar work....
Yes, New Order was one of the groundbreaking bands in their use of synths, using the sounds they absorbed from early '80s NYC clubs to create a form of dance-pop that hugely influence later dance music, but they are, at heart, a guitar band. Peter Hook and Steven Morris form an amazing rhythm section.
This was driven home to me by seeing them perform live last year. New Order has never been the greatest live band -- Bernard Sumner has a rather goofy stage presence and tends to swallow his vocals a bit* -- and the venue didn't have the best sound, but still, they really rocked. They can put up an amazing wall of sound and what's cool is that it's not muddy. Of course, that's sort of a hallmark of Joy Division/New Order -- and one that was accentuated on the Joy Division albums by Martin Hannett's production work. They also played several Joy Division songs. "Love Will Tear Us Apart" seemed a bit perfunctory, but "She's Lost Control" and "Ceremony" were awesome.
* Of course, Bernie was never meant to be the front man. That was Ian's job.
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thanks guys, I have some serious listening to do. I'll do my best to check out everything recommended to me!
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I love Massive Attack. My current fave is probably I Against I from the Blade II (what a silly movie) soundtrack or the "Collected" CD.
But I wouldn't put them in the same class as Joy Division/New Order. Massive Attack has gone beyond music.
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When I told my brother about this topic over the weekend, he asked if I had mentioned Electronic as a band similar to New Order. As soon as he asked, I thought, "Duh, how could I forget them?"
Anyway, Electronic is a splinter group from New Order featuring New Order's lead singer, Bernard Sumner, and Johny Marr, the guitarist from the Smiths. Other splinter groups include Monaco (featuring Peter Hook, New Order's bassist), The Other Two (featuring Stephen Morris and Gillian Gilbert, the "other two" members of New Order), and Revenge (featuring Peter Hook). I would say Electronic's first album is the best of the bunch.
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neworderonline.com is the best new order site that i have found. An amazing forum, logs of every concert with every set list, just tons of stuff there. So visit that for additional info.
I saw them live during the Republic tour and last year in April, Republic tour was mostly better as the sound mix was vastly superior and other than some really horrid republic tracks, the set list was better too.
Republic Tour '93: Ruined in a day Regret Dream Attack Round and Round World As it is when it was everyone everywhere true faith BLT Temptation The Perfect Kiss
Encore: Fine Time Blue Monday
Waiting for the sirens call '05: She's Lost Control Love Vigilantes Regret Hey Now What you doing Krafty Transmission True Faith Run Wild Jetstream WFTSC BLT Love Will Tear Us Apart Temptation
Encore: Crystal Blue Monday
Neither concert was spectacular, if you wanted to see them at their greatest, either the Technique tour of '89, or their tours in '83-'86 were the time to catch them. '89 had the best selection of tunes but in '83-'86 period they were famous for thoroughly improvised set lists, and consistently trying out new songs, pre-release in concert, often with different lyrics, or none at all and thoroughly improvised lyrics. These days their set lists are almost uniformally pre-determined .
As another poster mentioned, they were and are a rock band with dance influences, rather than a dance-pop band that occasionally uses guitar. Their initial albums as Joy Division and New Order were very much guitar based and their live performances show case the impress rythm section.
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The Other Two (featuring Stephen Morris and Gillian Gilbert, the "other two" members of New Order)
I have to say that this is a great topic. I absolutely love The Other Two (and you) album and it is definately one of my favorites from the 90s. I have a soft spot in my heart for women singers and Gillian is amazing on this album. First post longtime lurker. I also think that Lush's first three albums would be a great mix of guitars and electronica if that is something you like. Too many others to mention but there is a good start from the other posters.
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I have never been able to find, "Superhighways," the Other Two's second album since I was willing to pay through the nose for the importn version. Really annoyed I never bought it. Gillian does have a beautiful voice and the dance remix of Selfish, and Innocence are as good as any dance tunes I heard in that era and they aged well too. The only flaw with that album is the instrumentals, showed some lazyness that kind of put the kibosh on their whole "attitude" issue about the delay's on their album release and the subsquent theft of their album sleve by their parent band, New Order, for the Republic debut.
As for Electronic, they started hot, with a very well received eponymous debut (which included the incomparable, "Some Distant Memory" as well as fantastic B-Side, "Second To None," "Tighten Up", and "GAWI" were also highly impressive tunes as well as a remix of "Idiot Country"), but their second album "raise the pressure" was an abject disaster and they never regained their momentum even though "Twisted Tenderness" was an solid finale for the band.
Revenge and Monaco, Peter Hook's side bands were solid enough but something always felt missing with both.
What I took away from the sidebands was the sense that Gillian and Stephen contributed the beautiful synth parts, Barney had a passion for the synth parts and was quite good at putting them together himself and was a solid guitarist who knew Johnny Marr was better and Peter Hook just loves playing bass and playing live, and has a knack for a good synth part as well but none were the same without the combined contributions of all four. you can even sense that now as Gillian had to retire from the band to care for her and Stephen's youngest child, and the bands synth based tunes simply sound more electronic than New order (giving me the sense that Barney and Stephen work together on those parts now), and not nearly as good as their prior work. I'd love to find out if Someone Like You was a tune Gillian worked on before her retirement ditto, "Vicious Streak" as both seem to bear her imprint but all the other stuff clearly does not on both Get ready and WFTSC.
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Graywolf wrote: "As for Anything Box, nice call, they had a hit with their first album, but the rest were damn near impossible to find in the nineties (I managed to track down Hope later on), but for me, they have a distressing habit like Erasure, Depeche Mode, or Camouflage or Cetu Javu etc of getting very tedious to listen to after the first few weeks or month or so of getting an album. I think it's the sameness of the writing and sound, whereas New Order has a lot of influences coming in, and because of that and the range of their tastes their good stuff never seems to get old, to me an anyway. "
Glad to see some fellow A-box fans exist out there, but I do disagree with the one point as I never get tired of listening to "Hope". "Every Single Day" is one of my all time favorite tunes. You can get some of A-box's other albums at either anythingbox.com or at cdbaby.com. "Electrodelica" and "Worth" are particularly good but the latest one "The Effects of Stereo TV" was not impressive. Claude tried to copy "The Grandaddies" with little success.
Erasure's "Nightbird" album released the winter of '05, is probably their best effort put forth since "Is Say I Say I Say" and DM's "Playing the Angel" is their best since SOFAD.
Back to the topic of New Order, IMHO their best three albums are Low-Life, Substance and Waiting for the Siren's Call. Technique was good at the time, but now sound's very pop 80's, while Low-Life and Substance have a more timeless quality to them. Each of these albums also contain my favorite NO tunes, namely "Love Vigilanties", "Temptation" and "Waiting for the Siren's Call."
Lastly, if anyone checks out OMD, do not, I repeat DO NOT, get Universal. Except for New Head, it SUCKS.
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O.M.D.'s weirdest modern album is "Liberator", utter manure until the last couple of songs and oddly Christine may be their best song ever. Strange to have some crippingling bad tunes and the finish with Best Years of Our Lives-Christine-Only Tears, a trio of concluding songs as good as on virtually any album i've ever heard. Emmylou Harris's Wrecking Ball is a little better and technique finishing with Run-Mr. Disco-Vanishing Point-Dream Attack is as well but that may be it.
Technique sounds dated? It never has to me. Republic and Electronic's debut definitely did not age well but for me Technique sounds quite modern beyond Fine Time which is a bit silly. You really think so? I also was not all that impress for WFTSC, not bad, just not great either, far too much piss poor music on it. Hey Now, Hey Joe (opening titles set a disturbing precedent for the rest of the album), the fifth song which i never listen too, the sixth song, dracula's castle, jetstream, Guilt and Working overtime all stink or are mediocre to me. The title track and Turn are pretty much as good as anything they've done and Krafty is solid if not possessing great lyrics but beyond that I wasn't very impressed at all. Hey Joe, for instance, has only one positive quality and that's the chorus where you can hear Hook's bass come firing in on all cylinders and Bernard singing like he was 26 again. Hey now sounds fine during the verses but thats it, the rest are distressingly bad (though I do like the drum track Stephen layed for Jet Stream, and Ana Matronic's contribution was excellent.
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Sadly, I got into New Order six months or so after the Technique tour.
From what I hear, their 1987 concert at the Greek Theatre in Berkeley was one of their best ever.
I saw them at The Henry J. Kaiser in Oakland, Calif. The sound mix was horrible. It looked like both the mix and the stage was tailored more to the Chemical Brothers than New Order. The show started way too late and the dude who as DJing was horrible. He was pulling out every tired, generic sound and trick of the electronica repetoire. The Chemical Brothers played way too long and their sound was much too loud for the venue (and it's not just that I'm old). Still. It was worth. "Transmission" was fantastic. "Crystal" and "Blue Monday" were great.
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WFTHC isn't perfect. I think the first 4 tracks are first rate, including Hey Joe. I agree that I Told You So and even Guilt Is a Useless Emotion are both weak (and their most clubish sounding as well), but the rest of the tracks make up for it.
My take on Technique is that it starts good, I think the total campyness of Fine Time is a hoot, but the last three tracks kinda bore me, Dream Attack in particular.
No if you want the perfect NO album you have to go back to Low-Life. The perfect blend of Rock/Folk, dark synth pop, dance hits and etherial instrumentals.
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Wow, well, there are always debates about the band. Believe it or not there are huge fans of Movement and Republic. I find this utterly baffling. Movement is the obvious transition album, the band trying to find its way without ian and without a confident vocalist/lyricist (and many believe that Ian may have been the heir to Jim Morrison minus the pretentiousness), and w/o a clear sense of their musical direction minus Curtis. The band themselves admit it. Republic was a disaster, the record label was collapsing and looking to the album to save them from bankruptcy, the band was sick of eachother (understandable considering they'd been touring and releasing albums since 1977, sixteen years at that point), and during the album the band split into it's side project parts with little dialogue. This is how you get limp electronic debris like "Liar" "Chemical", "World", and "Spooky".
For me Low-Life doesn't compare to Technique, while I love it, there's no one song that grabs me the way Age of Consent, Your Silent Face and Leave me Alone did on PCL, or Loveless, Run, or Mr. Disco did on Technique, plus it has the twin disasters that are a truncated version of The Perfect Kiss, and a horrid mix of Sub-Culture (seems to fade in and out of clarity). There is a reason it's regarded as a masterpiece though, there isn't a poor song on the album and every last one is either good or great (I hate that they broke Perfect Kiss in half but it is a fantastic song all the same), I just happen to think Technique is better, better lyrics, better synths, better guitar work, to me. But you can't really go wrong with either beyond stupidly editing Perfect Kiss. Wish I could track down the 18 minute version of elegia though.
Now I also saw the Henry J Kaiser gig and will agree it was a horror. The first concert I attended was the '93 show by them, and that was disappointing because it was a retread set (they used basically the same one with all their gigs and clearly weren't majorly interested) and they didnt play any of my fav tunes beyond BLT and Temptation and Pefect Kiss (my other favs are Age of Consent, Your Silent Face, Leave Me Alone, Thieves..., Sunrise, Sooner than you think, Weirdo, 1963, anything off technique essentially etc), but the Kaiser gig was just horrible. The sound mix was the worst in my entire history of going to gigs and I've seen about 40 gigs in my life (only seen about 10 in the past 10 years though), just horrible. The set list was a mix of inspired and awful, and as stated for some idiotic reason they decided to match the mix to the Chemical Brothers style rather than New Order's, a thoroughly idiotic choice. I've seen the Ocean Blue, and the orange peels numerous times in the bay area and the sound was 1,000,000 better and those gigs had capacity of probably 500, and crummy amps. Sounds like you were as disappointed as me Zalmoxis and I unfortunately dragged three friends to see the disaster.
As for WFTSC, I dont know, it just doesn't work for me, I don't consider it bad, just not up to par with their masterwork era (to me 1982-1989). Other than Regret and Special, WFTSC the song, they have not, in my mind, released a truly great track since then though Here to Stay, Behind Closed Doors, and at close range are nearly greatness.
Still how many dance/pop/post-punk guitar bands actually produce good records, let alone great ones when within spitting distance of age 50?
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One of my favorite concerts was seeing the Ocean Blue in Provo in 1995 or so. In their encore they played Love Vigilantes. I was ecstatic, especially because at that point I had no hope of ever seeing New Order in concert.
I'm not a big fan of WFTSC but I'll take it. For some reason most of my non-New Order fan friends really like Get Ready and WFTSC, perhaps because they are more guitar oriented and mainstream.
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I thought Get Ready was only OK. Outside of Crystal, Viscous Streak and Run Wild (which I can't stand) all the other songs sound pretty much the same. And what was that with Billy Corgan's guest vocals?? Ugh!!
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Ive never seen a New Order fan beyond you and I support Corgan's contribution on "Turn My Way". He has an amazingly annoying way of singing, but it's his signature and I don't mind it on the tune (I do mind the limp, insipid guitar playing though, perhaps an all time low point in terms of guitar work by the two of them or just barney). Oddly Get Ready was mediocre when it came out but has grown on me in the intervening years. WFTSC is having the opposite effect on me.
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Yeah, they had a couple of great tunes, I think Vienna, and White China or something or other. A bit one dimensional just based on the singles i heard but still great singles.
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quote:I love Massive Attack. My current fave is probably I Against I from the Blade II (what a silly movie) soundtrack or the "Collected" CD.
Haven't listened to any Massive Attack in general, but I Against I they did with Mos Def, and I love Mos Def.
I'm ashamed to say I didn't really check out any of the music suggested to me back when I started this thread. I moved on to a different genre for a bit, but I'm back listening to New Order again. So I'll be scouring the net for some samples of all these other bands.
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Siouxsie and the Banshees? Golly, Jeepers! Why is their bubble so close to Joy Division when their sound is more like that of a rusty jug band in the back of a carnival wagon? And the Smiths? Too wordy and too whiney. I can go along with the Cure though.
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I love the Smiths. Love love love love love. And Morrissey by himself. "Girlfriend in a coma, I know, it's seeeeriouuuuuus."
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Joy Division... ah, memories. New Order is simply emblematic of all that's best in electronic music. This thread had me pulling out all my old 80s CDs from the attic and uploading them into my iTunes! Incredible stuff...
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Similar bands: The Smiths, or Morrissey, Suede, The Cure, VHS or Beta, Placebo, Bauhaus (More like Joy Division), My Bloody Valentine, Jesus and Mary Chain, The Dears, awesome new orleans local band called The Public (whom i'm very good friends with . You can hear them at www.myspace.com/thepublic .
So here's a starter list for you Posts: 124 | Registered: Apr 2006
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Regarding the simon reynolds post-punk book I link to above....
I've been hearing good things about a new collection by one of the minor stars of the post-punk era --- Josef K's Entomology.
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