quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I still pronounce the the c in Arctic, Whoops
No diss meant to OSC, but it's still more widely considered correct to pronounce both Cs than to pronounce only the last one.
Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Are people seriously trying to say that Wednesday ought to be pronounced Wed-nes-day?
This whole notion of "correct" pronunciation really grates on my nerves, anyway. We ALL speak a dialect, and your dialect is no better or worse than my dialect. We have Standard English, but its main purpose, in my opinion, anyway, is to serve as a bridge between dialects. Standard English is good for formal speeches and writing.
People who pronounce words differently than you are merely pronouncing them differently, not wrongly. Their pronunciation is based on their background and particular dialect, just as yours is. I would bet that we wouldn't have to look far before we came up with a word that you pronounce differently than the "standard."
After all, if you want to talk "real" pronunciations, then lets go back to Old English--then we'll ALL be wrong. Pronunciations and spellings have changed so much that Old English looks and sounds like a completely different language. But the point is that the language patterns and shifts from Old English on to Modern English can be measured and seen.
Language changes. It always has, and it always will. And sometimes you won't like the changes. Too bad. And if you continue to whine about it, you just might be guaranteeing that people will continue to pronounce your "pet" words wrong--just to piss you off.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote: People that pronounce "nuclear" as "nucular" really (no kidding) make me wonder: How are are able to read the word "clear"? [Confused]
I see "nuclear" as "nu"+"clear".
For me, the clear in "nuclear" is pronounced clEE-arrrr, and the clear in "clear" is pronounced clEEr. Do you say clear with two syllables?
Wednesday is Wensday for me, but because I know theres that d there there is one of those almost-silent glottal stops in there. Like when you say little as li'l, you're not really saying lihhhl but li. l. There's something there, just not pronounced.
Posts: 3636 | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by starLisa: And... is this a midwest thing? My little brother, and about half the people I went to school with, pronounced "milk" as "melk". Anyone else run into this?
This is pretty common in the Utah dialect.
feel -> fill fill -> fell fail -> fell fool -> full full -> foal
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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For all you nucular naysayers, how do you say "comfortable"? Chances are you metathesize the /r/ and /t/, ending up with something like "comftorble" instead. You might also want to read about the phonotactical motivation behind the pronunciation of "nucular." In addition to phonotactic constraints and syllable sonority principles, there's also the fact that only two or three English words end in the sequence /cliər/. A lot more words end in the sequence /cjulər/, so there's also motivation by analogy.
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I pronounce the answers to "What are you doing?" and "Honey, why don't we ask for directions?" the same as the 'i' in Parliament.
Posts: 431 | Registered: Oct 2003
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That's a neat Wiki, it makes me feel a little better about saying nucular when I don't think about it. Except, I definitely say comfterble as well.
Posts: 3636 | Registered: Oct 2001
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I'll be the first to admit irritation at words being pronounced incorrectly, but only if pronounced differently than I say them. I know of no one who says every word the way the dictionary advises. Different regions have pronounced words differently for as long as language has existed.
I used to go MAD in Utah when people would pronounce the words "sell" and "sale" exactly the same, mostly because this would cause tremendous confusion when trying to spell these words. Even in college, many people seemed unaware that one was a verb and one was a noun. In the same day I passed a Women's Soccer "Plant Sell" and then passed a car with a sign that read, "Must Sale."
But I'm just as guilty as the next person for conforming to regional dialects. Of course we're going to pronounce words the way those we learn the language from pronounce them. I never even realized until I was in college that people actually said the word "something" like it is spelled and not "suh-Uhm."
Language is constantly evolving. Whatever becomes the preferred mode of pronunciation for a word by the majority of the public becomes the correct form.
Posts: 293 | Registered: Sep 2006
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feel -> fill fill -> fell fail -> fell fool -> full full -> foal
You may be interested, in Utah, they have a "window in time" to look at this, the "Deseret Alphabet". That was a phononetical spelling scheme that was intended to make it easer for immigrants to learn English. It was only used for a few years, early on in Utah history ca.1850-60. When you actually sound the words out in the Deseret alphabet, you find that Utahns in the 1850's talked a lot like they do now. I had always thought it was a Danish influence. But, that is way too early. I have since had a linguistics guy tell me that it is similar to the "Vermont" dialect of the late 1800's. Anyway, they have been "putting the harse in the born" for a long time.
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
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I've heard people talk about a reversal of "ar" and "or," but I have never heard it, though I've definitely heard people who pronounced "or" like "ar." I've had a couple of professors who have studied this phenomenon in Utah, and they've always talked about it as a merger, not as a reversal. They've even taken recordings, run them through a spectrograph, and then shown the scatter plots, and it's definitely a merger of "or" with "ar."
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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As far as assuming stupidity over mispronouncing words, I get that all the time. I have a minor speech impediment. In jr high, while taking all accelerated courses after having taken the gifted courses in elementary, I had a teacher recommend me for special ed courses because with my speech impediment, there must be something wrong with my brain (I was already taking speech therapy courses and she knew that). I had an A in that course and she still couldn't believe that I was intelligent enough to be in her course because of the way I spoke.
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:For the same reason that mispronouncing any word matters. Because it's wrong.
Of course. Anybody who doesn't speak with [insert MY accent here] is wrong. End of story.
Despite what living in such a self-centered country as your own may lead you to believe, people with southern US accents aren't the only ones who pronounce nuclear incorrectly (and I'm sure there are plenty of southern staters who pronounce it properly). People who have the same accent as me do it. It's not an accent thing, it's just a wrong thing. "End of story".
Posts: 3564 | Registered: Sep 2001
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Congratulations. You're one of the approximately 31 percent of Americans who pronounce "coupon" wrong. Notice that the letter sequence "cou" is never pronounced /kyu/ in English.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by aspectre: "My astronomy professor says "Nucular." Why does it even matter?"
quote:...1. [My astronomy professor] showed up the first day and told us his lesson plan was 25 years old, that he wasn't too keen on technology so there would be no visuals, and he wasn't going to read the homework or give essay questions on tests. 2. He enouraged us not to study so that the curve would be low and we would have an easier time getting ok grades. he was NOT kidding... ...5. He suggested we not bother reading the book- he certainly never had.
point taken, but I mean, he is like, an actual astronomer, even if he isn't much of a teacher.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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I pronounce nuclear correctly, but the snobby comments I've seen in this thread make me want to mispronounce it.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Franktly I couldn't give a care either way or the other. Grammars and dictioning and allocution are strictally personell.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: Wow. Porteiro said something sarcastic, and jebus took it literally.
In other news, do you hear that sound? It's the universe exploding.
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: Congratulations. You're one of the approximately 31 percent of Americans who pronounce "coupon" wrong. Notice that the letter sequence "cou" is never pronounced /kyu/ in English.
I'm sorry, did you see where the descriptivist went? He was just here a second ago . . .
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: Congratulations. You're one of the approximately 31 percent of Americans who pronounce "coupon" wrong. Notice that the letter sequence "cou" is never pronounced /kyu/ in English.
Sure it is. I can think of at least one word in which the letter sequence "cou" is pronounced /kyu/ in English.
Hint: You snip them out of the newspaper.
Dude, if 31% of Americans say it that way, you can't call it wrong. Particularly when that 31% includes me.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Comfortable. That's a good point. I'm no longer going to give people a hard time about nukyular. Because I do pronounce it "comfterbul".
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Interesting. Did you read what I posted right before you posted that?
Also, it's different, because I'm not part of the whatever percent of Americans that mispronounce nuclear.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by rivka: I'm sorry, did you see where the descriptivist went? He was just here a second ago . . .
I say "coupon" with /kju/ too, just so you know. I was just trying to point out to Lisa that she isn't as right as she thinks she is. Besides, a descripivist doesn't have to proclaim that everything is equally correct or acceptable. Even though many people pronounce "coupon" with /kju/, it's still often considered nonstandard.
Lisa: What I meant is that there are no other words in English with that spelling and that pronunciation. The pronunciation /kju/ is not supported by spelling or etymology, but I think it's a result of the fact that /ku/ is extremely rare in stressed syllables in English, while /kju/ is fairly common.
And now I'm wondering what percentage of Americans actually say "nucular." I'd guess it's a lot smaller than 31 percent, but I really have no idea.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Upon reflection, I've discovered that I pronounce "nuclear", "comfortable", and "coupon" correctly, most of the time.
However, the alternate pronunciations on all three words sound like things I've most likely said before, possibly many times.
So I don't exactly feel superior about them .
I pronounce both c's in Arctic most of the time, I think, but I'm not sure which way is the "correct" way.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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I didn't even realize that anybody pronounces "coupon" in any other way than kyu-pon, but on TV today I heard people pronouncing it coo-pon. Weird.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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To be honest, I kind of wonder about those numbers for "coupon" from the dialect survey. In my own experience, the pronunciation with the inserted "y" sound is far more common.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Everything I need to know I learned from Star Trek. Including how to pronounce "nuclear". Unfortunately, now I mispronounce "vessel".
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Originally posted by starLisa: And... is this a midwest thing? My little brother, and about half the people I went to school with, pronounced "milk" as "melk". Anyone else run into this?
My brother and husband, who both needed speech therapy, both occasionally still do that. Also "pellow" instead of "pillow."
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: Everything I need to know I learned from Star Trek. Including how to pronounce "nuclear". Unfortunately, now I mispronounce "vessel".
There's more than one way to pronounce "vessel"?
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Notice that the letter sequence "cou" is never pronounced /kyu/ in English.
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