Topic: One particular episode of South Park has made me sad.
Blayne Bradley
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posted
=(
*edited once I realized I overeacted*
Episode 616 - My Future Self 'n Me
"Us Liberals believe that when it comes to your children it is OKAY to lie to your children, the ends justify the means! For example there is no hard evidence that suggests that second hand smoke kills people but its okay to lie about it."
Goeson to show a poster about how "One pill of ecstacy can kill your mother"
Under this context of this episode they are implying that taking ecstacy isn't has harmful as the media actually leads you to believe, however about a year ago a little girl from a family we knew as friends was at a party she was in her early teens, she was given a pill and she had an allergic reaction and died.
Stupid stupid thing to talk about Trey, I thought you knew better.
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Do you object to words like "dumb", "stupid", "moronic", or "idiotic" being used as pejoratives?
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I'm glad they made the episode. As important as it is to educate your kids about what drugs do and why you shouldn't do them, it's counterproductive to encourage misinformation about them in the hopes that will help keep them away. Contributing lies to the enormous amount of (mis)information floating around about drugs is a good way of ensuring your kids have NO CLUE what they're doing.
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Blayne Bradley
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I just wish they hadnt mentioned ecstacy it brought back some very painful memories, yes the episode in total gave the ocrrect message and it was funny but that part just bummed me out.
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: I just wish they hadnt mentioned ecstacy it brought back some very painful memories, yes the episode in total gave the ocrrect message and it was funny but that part just bummed me out.
Fair enough.
Also, what happened to your family friend sucks. =\
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Well, obvioulsy if one single person died because of taking E then EVERYTHING THE MEDIA EVER SAID ABOUT IT IS TRUE.
Not to make light of your loss, but really now. An anecdote does not citable research make. Not to mention, an allergic reaction is not linked to the general effect of the drug.
Matt and Trey make fun of everything and that's why I love them. You can't start getting mad just because they finally made fun of what's important to you instead of what's important to...not you. Don't be Isaac Hayes.
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So, to be clear, one pill of ecstasy can kill someone, right?
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Blayne Bradley
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Personally yes I probly overreacted, and i am undoubtably going to continue watching because yes the show is funny and makes fun of everything, I just wished if certain events in RL hadnt happened.
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Blayne Bradley
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Yes under certain very unfortunate circumstances it can.
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Pillows can kill someone in certain very unfortunate circumstances. Doorknobs. Cake frosting. Pollen. Alcohol. Cars. Grass. Balloons. Doesn't mean they're all insanely dangerous.
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I'm in the 'never done it, don't ever want to' camp. I remember a cover story on Time Magazine years ago that was enough to scare me. It detailed (remember, this was years ago and my memory's not perfect) how there pleasure receptors in your brain and what 'E' does is basically explode them so that you're filled with happy, touchy feelings. It also went on to say that often times, those levels can't be reached naturally. Ever. I'm good with the happy I get. I don't want to become dependent on some drug that could very well be made in someone's basement (and screwed up) just so that I can feel 'good'.
Lots of things are dangerous. Some more than others.
Posts: 1355 | Registered: Jul 2006
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Its not just allergies, some people just have a predisposition to Ecstacy that causes their heart to stop even after one hit.
Its also impossible to tell how much ecstacy one can take before the desired results are reached. Alot of kids take another pill just as the effects are wearing off, very stupid. Purity is a big concern too. But I agree, unwittingly spreading false information about illegal drugs is just as bad as legal drug side effects being downplayed by tabacco companies or big medicine.
In Criminal Justice class we watched a documentary on Meth labs and a man's lab exploded while he was not at home and the entire housing complex burned down. Tons of decent folks were homeless over night.
They also showed us the home of a woman who was living off her meth lab and let me just say the huts made out of cow dung that the Masai live in were far better households then this particular specimen. I felt terrible for the woman's children.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: So, to be clear, one pill of ecstasy can kill someone, right?
Although I've never heard of an MDMA overdose, given the notorious impurities of ecstacy, it's definitely possible to die of one pill, depending on what's in it.
It seems much more likely, though, to die from not maintaining your body during/afterwards, since ecstacy causes severe dehydration and a raise in body temperature (often increased by impurities such as cocaine or ephedrines).
So...yes.
Edit to add: not to mention that "ecstacy" is often MDA rather than MDMA...which is a whole different ball game.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Princess Leah: Well, obvioulsy if one single person died because of taking E then EVERYTHING THE MEDIA EVER SAID ABOUT IT IS TRUE.
Not to make light of your loss, but really now. An anecdote does not citable research make. Not to mention, an allergic reaction is not linked to the general effect of the drug.
The real irony is that E is one of the more dangerous drugs that teens have misconceptions about. They seem to be very clear on the idea that heroin is BAD, and that cocaine or crack are BAD, but the hype about E gets lumped in with the hype over marijuana, which is really not very dangerous, in an immediate way. E IS really dangerous, and it CAN cook your brain the first time you use it. Not likely, but a real possibility. The problem is we run the same ads (more in fact) that scare the crap out of people about marijuana as we do about MDMA, when MDMA is the far more dangerous drug in the single use department, as well as the cronic use department.
Who makes these drugs gateway drugs? Isn't it partly the cultural that makes all drugs equivelantly bad? Many a teenager finds out that smoking pot is not all that dangerous, not all that difficult to do, and fun- but that attitude when applied to drugs like ecstacy or meth is WAY more dangerous.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:They seem to be very clear on the idea that heroin is BAD, and that cocaine or crack are BAD, but the hype about E gets lumped in with the hype over marijuana, which is really not very dangerous, in an immediate way.
Really? Weird, I always see ads against E as being much more severe than the ones against pot. The ones against pot are almost exclusively "smoking pot makes you do really dumb things" or, more recently, "smoking pot makes you miss out on life," while anti-E ads seem to be almost exclusively "E can kill you, even if it's your first time or you only take one pill."
quote:it CAN cook your brain the first time you use it
No, see, that's one of the misconceptions we're talking about. E doesn't cook your brain. Nor does create "holes" in your brain - all of this was debunked years ago.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by cmc: I'm in the 'never done it, don't ever want to' camp. I remember a cover story on Time Magazine years ago that was enough to scare me. It detailed (remember, this was years ago and my memory's not perfect) how there pleasure receptors in your brain and what 'E' does is basically explode them so that you're filled with happy, touchy feelings. It also went on to say that often times, those levels can't be reached naturally. Ever. I'm good with the happy I get. I don't want to become dependent on some drug that could very well be made in someone's basement (and screwed up) just so that I can feel 'good'.
Lots of things are dangerous. Some more than others.
It doesn't explode anything. It floods your brain with certain neurotransmitters. As I recall, seratonin and dopamine. Which means it kind of does something pretty much like most antidepressants on the market. Except all at once, and on a massive level.
I'd never do it. After all those chemicals get dumped into your brain, you're depleted of them for a few days. Which to me, seems like it would be agony.
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I broke my own rule, I came on during the day. But I'm waiting for some help because there's something wrong with my drivers for my scanner... (how easy it is to justify to oneself)
I just went to a few sites - the most simply put one was http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/mdma.html and it says that there can be brain damage? So maybe the explode thing is a bad way of putting it but I'm still understanding from what I'm reading that it screws with your body's natural ability to feel good.
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E doesnt cook your brain but it does stop your heart, I'm not sure why one isnt as bad as the other.
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: E doesnt cook your brain but it does stop your heart, I'm not sure why one isnt as bad as the other.
No one said one isn't as bad as the other. I clarified because the entire point of the South Park episode, this thread and my posts has been: misinformation is bad.Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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cmc, that is a disturbing episode that shows Southpark has jumped entire schools of sharks. Having Steve Irwin appear at a party in Hell two months after his death is just wrong, and funny to no one.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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First of all, people need to separate MDMA and Ecstasy pills in their minds. A typical Ecstasy pill has far less than 50% MDMA. Drugs mixed in with MDMA in a pill of E include Ephedrine, Caffeine, Cocaine, and amphetamines. All of which are far far more dangerous than MDMA! If someone has an adverse reaction to a pill labelled "Ecstasy", it is extremely likely that it isn't the MDMA which is the problem.
In fact, the majority of pills called "Ecstasy" do not include any MDMA at all! It is more common that drugs in the same class as MDMA, like MDE or MDEA.
Now how does MDMA lead to emergency room visits (and very rarely deaths)?
Three ways: 1) Heat Stroke 2) Dehydration 3) Water Toxicity
1 and 2 can be largely prevented, and number 3 only happens rarely when someone drinks (literally) gallons of water mistakenly believing that they need to to combat 1 and 2.
(There was a famous campaign of "My daughter died, and the only drug in her system was MDMA" commericals a few years ago, where the real story was that she actually died from number 3, after she drank several gallons of water because she didn't feel well after taking the pill. She kept feeling worse and worse, so she thought she needed more and more water.)
So how dangerous is Ecstasy, all things considered?
Those claiming it is extremely dangerous, go out and look at the stats. Not sites making general scary claims (like the DEA site does). I'll guaranty that you are surprised by what you find.
Make sure you also look at how an "Ecstasy related death" is classified. I'll ruin the surprise and tell you that every death where someone happened to have MDMA in their system, even if many other drugs were present, is classified as an Ecstasy related death. Even if the person takes heroin, speed, drinks a six pack and then drives home drunk and runs into a tree, if any MDMA was in his sytem, that is an "Ecstasy related death".
Even taking this into consideration, the number is still ridiculously low. If someone disagrees, I'd love to see stats which say otherwise. Maybe I am wrong, but I've never seen data which showed me otherwise.
Look for statistics for deaths related to Ecstasy per 100,000 users. Then compare it to alcohol. I'll spoil the surprise here as well, and tell you that depending on where you get your data, the numbers I've seen indicate using alcohol is between 10 and 100 times more likely to kill you than using Ecstasy.
Can one pill of MDMA kill you? Sure. Can one pill of Aspirin? Yes it can. Which is more likely to kill you? I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's the Aspirin.
Now, bear in mind, I don't think people should use the drug, at least not regularly. I still think there are serious negative long term side-effects to MDMA use.
Similarly, I don't think marijuanna is dangerous, in that I don't think there is much chance it is going to kill you, but I still don't think people should use it, and I think the long term side-effects are serious.
However, even if we all agree that we should discourage MDMA use, using terror tactics based on misinformation and outright lies isn't the way to go about it.
quote:A recent study suggested a much higher LD-50 for MDMA when ingested orally. The single-dose oral LD-50 for rats was found to be approximately 325 mg/kg, with death associated with kidney and liver damage (Goad 1985). This dose corresponds to over 150 times the human therapeutic level (1.5-2.0 mg/kg).
So caffiene's lethal dose is about half the lethal dose of MDMA.
Edit: I'm having a hard time finding Ephedrine's lethal dose, but I'm curious as to why you find that hard to believe.
Edit 2: Here is an interesting quote I just found:
quote:although MDMA is more toxic than, say, the cactus-based psychedelic mescaline, it would take a big dose of E, something like 14 of today's purest pills ingested at once, to kill you." (Time Magazine, May 2000))
I'd call that a suicide, not an accidental overdose.
posted
Funny you should mention South Park. There's an article on the front page of CNN talking about an episode of South Park where Satan throws a party, and Princess Di and Steve Irwin (with a bloody Stingray barb sticking out of his chest) are in attendence.
Stone and Parker must have called Rush Limbaugh for decency lessons.
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No, God relaxed that rule. They mention it in the PSP espisode.
Ghandi, Di, and numerous other popular celebrities have been shown in hell numerous, numerous times before this.
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smitty: Guess I gotta watch that episode again =)
Listen to the lyrics of "Christmas Time In Hell" (which was my, unfortunate, theme song 2 christmases ago) if you want to hear some of the other celebrities roasted (in hell) by south park.
It was all about Kenny, including translations of his garbles lines, the manner in which he died, episode downloads, etc.
I look back on those days with embarrassment. I really don't enjoy South Park anymore.
edit: People say its funny because its satire, well fine. But Mad Magazine up until the 90's was the best quality satire for my money that I could ever find. It was never as disgusting, but it was twice as clever.
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Did anybody actually watch the Steve Irwin episode? The whole point was that it was TOO SOON, and they mentioned that as part of the dialogue. That's what made it (mildly) funny. But they didn't disrespect Steve Irwin at all. I think you guys are overreacting.
Posts: 1314 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Xavier: Here is the lethal dose of caffeine: estimated to be about 150 to 200 milligrams per kilogram of body mass. (According to wikipedia)
Milligrams of caffeine mean nothing to me. How many 12oz Cokes is that per day? Then I might panic!
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If the lethal dose is 150-200 mg/kg, that means you need around 12687.5 mg (~12.7 grams) to kill you.
That is about 373 cans of cola. I think you'll be okay .
No-Doze pills are 200mg each. So that's about 63 No-Doze pills to kill you. I knew someone who took 20 No-Doze, and he was seriously messed up. I've taken five once, and I had the shakes for almost an hour.
Anyway, these numbers represent the L50 dose. That means that 50% of subjects would die at this dose. Obviously others may die at much lower doses. This data was just to give an idea of one drug versus another, not to determine what dose was safe.
Edit: To have a 50% chance of dying from 200mg MDMA pills (which looks to be twice the dose in a typical pill of Ecstasy), from the numbers given above, you'd need to take 126 pills. I guess the Times was referring to "possible death" and not "probable death" with their 14 pill number.
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quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: Did anybody actually watch the Steve Irwin episode? The whole point was that it was TOO SOON, and they mentioned that as part of the dialogue. That's what made it (mildly) funny. But they didn't disrespect Steve Irwin at all. I think you guys are overreacting.
It wasw mildly ironic.
What I objected to a bit was an episode they did on alcoholism. For some people, it's not a matter of "stop drinking". It really is a disease. A person with acute alcoholism doesn't have the sort of wiring I might have like when I go to a wine tasting and decide to stop drinking wine or else I will throw up and embarass myself.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Just to qualify... I've never done drugs, I've never smoked ANYTHING, and I've always severely limitted my drinking. My parents had me when they were very young, and I saw all the after affects at an age when most kids didn't know what these things were. Apparently to some kids, seeing this stuff when they're young makes them think it's "ok". To me it was a rather acute branding of WHY you "Say no".
However, I think it is wrong to compare E to caffeine. For one thing, E is not controled by the FDA... Caffeine is. That means when you take a pill of caffeine (as unwise as that usually is to do except in extreme circumstances) you at least know what you're getting. However, it is just as stupid to "use" caffeine as it is to "use" E. I don't see any parents handing those pills out like candy or anything, and at least when I was in school, we were always warned of the dangers of the "suppliments". For instance, the big thing when I was in school was that staying up for 72 hours would make you legally insane... and seemed like harmless fun at first. Then it was brought to our attention that it can actually kill you. Logically, it would seem that staying awake would do no more damage than to have you pass out when you got too tired, but your body can actually react very differently. It CAN and HAS in the past caused such a surge of adreneline that it stops the heart.
To me taking ANY sort of part drug is like that. Maybe the dangers are "unlikely" but that makes them no less real. You cannot HONESTLY say that E is harmless, far too many children have died. Yes, lots of people can take it an not die. Lots of people have drunk from beer bongs and not died, but there have also been lots of alcohol poisoning deaths too.
I used to like South Park as a teenager. I still think the earlier episodes were great, and the first movie still makes me laugh. However, like most shows, you run out of amunition early on. You have to get more and more shocking to draw your audience. It seems to me that Matt and Trey have already reached the point that they're far less "serious satire" and use much more "shock value" to get their laughs. They also seem to have lost all social conscience. Wrong or Right they KNOW lots of kids watch their show, so doing anything that may, in an immature mind, promote something as truly dangerous as E is... unwise in my opinion.
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