posted
(Addendum: Found, so to speak... see subsequent post below.)
I have a co-worker that has apparently disappeared off the face of the Earth.
We work in Broward County, and we both commute via Tri-Rail to our respective homes southward. I live in Miami; he lives only two stops away in Ft. Lauderdale.
On Sunday, we missed the last Tri-Rail of the day at 7:30pm, and there are no 24-hour southbound buses in Broward, so we were stranded with no place to go, miles from home. We decided to go back to the office on foot; it was almost two hours walking. Now I don't want to elaborate on what goes on at the "office", but I personally did not want to go back to the office on Sunday night because I don't want to be in that atmosphere, and I was a bit upset at our employer who, when we called him to tell him that we were stranded, suggested that we go back there to work..
As we approached the area of the office I insisted that I wasn't going to go back to the office, so I elected to go to places in the area that I know are open - the Coconut Creek Casino and IHOP - until I can get the next southbound Tri-Rail at 5am the next day to go home, change, and come right back. Which is exactly what I did, and was in to work by 11am the next morning (Monday).
He elected to go to the office at the time, about 11pm. At 1am I got a call from him stating that he did not go back to the office, but found wireless Internet access in a park in the area (unsecure wireless Internet in residential areas around here is rather common), and he was talking to our boss via Instant Messenger at the time.
That's the last time anybody has heard anything from him, and that was 36 hours ago.
He bought a cellphone the day before, and calling it goes directly to voicemail. Apparently he lives in a sort of hostel or hotel of some sort, where he has a dozen roommates, and every time I call there someone else answers, but nonetheless nobody's seen him since Sunday morning. He hasn't called in to work and hasn't called anyone we know. He's literally disappeared without a trace.
He was a computer programmer, someone proficient in Flash, educated and not a deadbeat, delinquent or apparently not in to any "bad things." He was a cool guy, excited of the fact that he was making good money in a new programming gig. He was upbeat at everything, even during last night's situation.
I don't quite know what to think at this point. Of course, bad thoughts circle through our heads, and if something bad did happen I have to consider that (1) it could have happened to me as well, as I was in the same situation, and (2) I might have been able to prevent it from happening. We were stranded in an area that was desolate and remote, everything closed (not even Wal-Mart was open); I've been in this situation before, relying on foot transportation for years and knowing the shortcoming of it, but apparently he wasn't "street smart" in that regard. He kept asking me "where are you going to go?" to which I continually answered "I'll find a place," and I did like I always do.
Anyway, I don't know what to make of all this. I'll keep you all informed, I guess.
posted
Sheesh, that reads like the opening scene from an episode of "Without a Trace" or "CSI". I hope it turns out better than those usually do.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
He has appeared, so to speak: he's currently sitting in the Broward County Jail.
So, at 2am in the morning, a man is walking through a dark neighborhood with his laptop bag slung around his neck, when he stops on a park bench, opens it up and tries to get some work done. Sounds fine, right? I've done it countless times myself.
Well, the Broward Sheriff's Office didn't think so, and arrested him on one count of "Grand Theft" and one count of "Fraudulent use of ID" (whatever *that* means).
Did I mention he's black? Welcome to the wonderful world of racial profiling...
He could not prove the laptop was his; after all, who can? I can't prove my laptop's really mine either, and it's not like I have the Dell receipt glued to it.
I can't help but think how things would have gone had I been with him. I could have probably saved the misery of being in jail for 36 hours, or I could very well be there in the cell next to him.
Anyway, my employer has gone to try to bond him out (bond's around $900 or something). And there's the whole issue of the laptop, which is now arguably material evidence of a crime, so we might end up temporarily losing the work he's done up to now.
I'm waiting for him to show up to the office, which who knows if that'll even be today due to the expediency that this part of the judicial system works by. We'll see.
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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OK, so it seems he got targeted because of racial profiling, but apparently it wasn't without some level of guilt: he had two prior warrants, one of which was for grand theft of some sort. The ID charge was because he apparently gave the arresting officers false ID.
So perhaps the cops were in the wrong to even question him, but from then on they did what they had to do.
He isn't coming back, it seems. Damn it, now I have to do all the Flash work, too!
*EDIT*: He isn't going to see a judge for thirty days, and there's no bond. So he's going to be stewing in jail for a while.
Guess I should be thankful I wasn't there with him...
quote:OK, so it seems he got targeted because of racial profiling
How do you know this? I've been approached by police officers on three separate instances when I've been sitting on park benches after midnight.
Had my ID checked each time, called in for warrants twice.
I doubt I've sat on park benches after midnight ten times in my life, and never with an expensive piece of portable electronic equipment.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I've sat on park benches after midnight a few times in my life, but rarely with expensive equipment, and usually momentarilly ^^.
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
I'm glad he didn't disappear for worse reasons, at least.
I got stopped and ID'd once for being in a park past midnight too, but I think their questions had more to do with my happening to have been climbing on top of the gazebo at the time, than my presence in the park in general.
Posts: 624 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Nighthawk: He could not prove the laptop was his; after all, who can? I can't prove my laptop's really mine either, and it's not like I have the Dell receipt glued to it.
I was recently trying to get a repair on my disabled SIL's laptop. When you call Dell and give them the numbers on the back of the laptop, they are able to call up a record of who purchased the computer and the address where it was shipped. Unless you can give them this information, Dell service won't give you the time of day which made it rather madding for me to get the service done for my SIL but could help out your friend. Is the laptop his personal property or does it belong to work? Either way, Dell will have the records, so he should be able to prove who owns the computer and verify that he did not steal it.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I guess there's no way to know for sure, Dag, but I will say that if you're obviously a minority member (and I'm not claiming to be that, but I have been there and seen it happen) you get treated differently often enough for that to come to be your expectation. The cops might ask both a white guy and a black guy for ID, but they might follow up on the black guy much more strenuously. I've seen cops glance at IDs and give them back (What does that prove?!) without running them or making any kind of notation of the name, and I've seen them examine them closely, ask questions to prove that the person on the ID is really you, run the ID for prior records, etc etc.
It's very difficult to prove that it happens, because there are too many different variables in your evidence. It's very hard to prove that the same cop or rent-a-cop will treat different people differently under the exact same circumstance, where the only difference is membership in a minority. So they can pretty much get away with it. But it happens, and it actually happens a lot.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I know it happens. The question is, has anything wrong happened in this case. And I don't think it has unless there was some racially charged language. I suspect most officers would approach most people sitting alone on a park bench typing away on a laptop at 2 AM. I suspect most would ask for ID. I suspect most would run the ID if they asked for it.
I am especially suspicious of the claims of discrimination that describe incidents that have happened to me. I had someone tell me one of our clients was sexist because he continually interrupted one of our female employees.
Turns out he was actually a jerk who interrupted pretty much everyone he had power over - which included his vendors. Because he was basically low man in the office (as It manager, he was out of the line of command), he never interrupted the men who worked at the office.
I told her this, she didn't believe me. Until I attended an on-site meeting with her. Afterwards she told me I was right.
I'm not sure why that made the interruptions more tolerable to her, but they did.
Again, I know it happens. But I think there's a general underestimation of how much crappy behavior the typical white male* has to put up with which leads to categorization of some incidents as sex- or raced- based which really are just examples of the general prevailance of jerks and people more appropriately labeled with less ToS-friendly-terms.
*Yes, I know that as a group white males have it better than most other broad groups. I'm not playing a "we're victims too" card and am perfectly willing to accept the premise that the sum total of such incidents faced by white males on average is less than the sum total for women or minorities on average. The point is to analyze the motivation and subtract the baseline of general assness from the sum of discriminatory incidents.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Kwea: Last I heard he could have refused to say anyting, and no one is required to have ID of any sort.
This the US, right? I am not sure with so many people from overseas posting here.
Depends on state law, not the Constitution. url=http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/032904righttorefuse.html]Quickest link I found. The summary matches my recollection, although the author has an obvious axe to grind.[/url]
quote:Some U.S. Supreme Court justices Monday appeared to scoff at a Nevada man's claim that he should not be required to give his name to police.
"I cannot imagine any responsible citizen objecting to giving his name," said law-and-order Justice Antonin Scalia.
"The exercise of a constitutional right should not be incriminating," replied Robert Dolan, a deputy state public defender from Winnemucca.
In 2000, Northern Nevada cattle rancher Larry Hiibel, standing beside his parked truck, was approached by a Humboldt County deputy. The officer asked Mr. Hiibel for proof of identification 11 separate times; in each instance Mr. Hiibel refused, saying he'd done nothing wrong. Finally, Mr. Hiibel was arrested and convicted of resisting and obstructing an officer in the performance of his duties.
By a 4-3 vote, the Nevada Supreme Court rejected Mr. Hiibel's appeal, ruling any privacy right guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is "outweighed by the benefits to officers and community safety" by allowing police to force people to provide ID, anywhere.
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: I am especially suspicious of the claims of discrimination that describe incidents that have happened to me. I had someone tell me one of our clients was sexist because he continually interrupted one of our female employees.
Turns out he was actually a jerk who interrupted pretty much everyone he had power over - which included his vendors. Because he was basically low man in the office (as It manager, he was out of the line of command), he never interrupted the men who worked at the office.
I told her this, she didn't believe me. Until I attended an on-site meeting with her. Afterwards she told me I was right.
I'm not sure why that made the interruptions more tolerable to her, but they did.
You don't understand because you are not a woman. When people frequently interupt you, it shows disrespect. After you have been in enough situations where you are interupted, but men are not, you become sensitized to it. I know that this doesn't mean that everyone who interupts me is a sexist, but I have been in so many situations where I have been interupted solely because I am a woman, that I have become sensitive to being interupted.
As a result, I understand why minorities are sensitive to racial profiling. If everyday you live with subtle differences in the way people treat you, you become sensitive to it.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
5-4 that you have to cough up ID when asked by police. CNN link of the Supreme Ct case Dag referenced CNN lists 20 states where this is true. Also, the guy might have gotten away with refusing to produce ID--he gave the police false ID, which is a different crime.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:As a result, I understand why minorities are sensitive to racial profiling. If everyday you live with subtle differences in the way people treat you, you become sensitive to it.
When I look at racial profiling I am primarily looking at it from a solution perspective. That is, if we consider a form of racial profiling bad, how do we stop it? I also worry that attempts to stop it will result in the cessation of desirable behavior - especially in a law enforcement perspective.
If we want to stop it, it is imperative that we identify and classify it. And, if a particular incident is not racial profiling, I want to know that (as best we can).
I want officers to ask people in the park at 2am typing on a laptop what they're doing there. I don't want them to be able to arrest people for not complying, but I want them asking. I don't mind them asking for ID - often, it's the quickest way to confirm to the officer that nothing untowards is going on. (Again, I don't think anyone should have to prove that they aren't doing anything wrong to an officer. However, in an unusual situation, I want them investigating.)
I will basically never consent to a search if I am stopped. However, if there's a missing child and the police want to clear vehicles, I'm happy at that point to let them search and clear me efficiently, so they waste as little manpower as possible on someone I know to be innocent (i.e., me). I think a responsible citizen should do the same, but I don't think officers' should have the power to force them to.
I place ID on a much lower scale of intrusiveness than a search. I generally provide it when asked. And I don't want to tell officers not to ask (ask, not demand) for it when they have a hunch or think something is unusual.
When there's more than a hunch (reasonable suspicion), the officer should be able to temporarily stop someone. Here's the prototype situation: after midnight, a young man handing a large TV out the window of a house to another young man. That's suspicious. An officer should be allowed to detain both people to confirm IDs, ownership of the TV (if it can be done quickly) and right to be in the house.
The man working on the laptop after midnight in the park falls in between the perfectly innocent and the reasonably suspicious situation. It should be investigated by asking for voluntary cooperation. It usually will be. And calling it racial profiling when it is does not help reign in racial profiling.
quote:Dude, Dag, telling us 5-4 is not enough. 5-4 which way?
Toward the winning side.
It upheld the decision.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I'm trying to recall the reputation of the Broward County Sheriff's Office re: racial issues. I simply can't recall whether they're one of the better SO's in FL or one that has had some problems.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:By a 4-3 vote, the Nevada Supreme Court rejected Mr. Hiibel's appeal, ruling any privacy right guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is "outweighed by the benefits to officers and community safety" by allowing police to force people to provide ID, anywhere.
Does this mean that, in Nevada, it is illegal to leave your house without a form of identification? Or does 'providing ID' include just giving your name?
Posts: 2149 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I am very commonly out without my wallet and therefore without any ID. Are you telling me that in at least 20 states that is illegal?
If it isn't illegal to go out without ID, then how can it be legally required to provide it. If I tell an officer I'm not carrying ID, does he have the right to search me for it? An officer can't reasonably assess whether or not I'm carrying ID without searching me. Does failure to carry ID constitute a legitimate right to search me?
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote: Decline in licensing among young people in the U.S.
In the past decade, fewer and fewer teenagers are getting driver's licenses. According to a December 2004 Los Angeles Times article, only 43% of American 16- and 17-year olds had licenses in 2002[citation needed]. By comparison, the percentage in 1982 was 52%. The rate is even lower in some states (e.g., 9% in Missouri). The decrease in percentages are said to be due to the many restrictions that an average teen must face overall in order to obtain the licenses.
Interesting. I didn't get my license until I was about 22, but I was obviously far out of the majority for it.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:I am very commonly out without my wallet and therefore without any ID. Are you telling me that in at least 20 states that is illegal? If it isn't illegal to go out without ID, then how can it be legally required to provide it. If I tell an officer I'm not carrying ID, does he have the right to search me for it? An officer can't reasonably assess whether or not I'm carrying ID without searching me. Does failure to carry ID constitute a legitimate right to search me?
The case hinged on his failure to provide his name, not the failure to show ID. Outside the context of driving and some situations where ID is required for access (airports or some government buildings), I don't see how it could be a crime not to have ID. It might make it OK for the police to extend the stop in certain situations, though. I'm not positive, though.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Vagrancy laws are much harder to enforce since a string of SCOTUS decisions in the 60s and 70s. I don't know what the current status is, but it's not the "go-to" tool for making arrests it once was (which would be why it was restricted).
Interesting side note, the law at issue in one of these cases made it a crime to live off the earnings of one's wife.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Icarus, we had a jaywalking cracktown in St Paul last year. I think there had been an upswing in people being hit and they wanted to discourage the behavior, so the police spent a couple of days out ticketing. It didn't last too long, I think because it was pretty much decided it was a waste of police time.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Icarus: But who gets stopped for jaywalking anymore?!
Not only do I know people who have been, it was on Shabbos (because this is L.A., and who walks unless they have to? ). Therefore no ID, and refused to accept (and therefore carry) a ticket, and refused to get in the cop car.
I don't recall exactly what the resolution was (I think someone else came along (a lawyer?) and helped resolve things), but yeah, sometimes people get ticketed for jaywalking.
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