posted
And the idea of separate accounts never occurred to me.
My husband and I have a joint account, through which all expenses are paid. Neither of us carries the checkbook, it stays home unless one of us needs it for something (like Sam's). We do have debit cards though.
We sit down together every two weeks and pay the bills together. We balance the checkbook together. We decide on every purchase together, even at the grocery store. All gifts to each other are useful items that the other needed anyway, and we agree together to purchase them.
The only thing we don't do together as far as finances go is we each get an "allowance" in cash every pay day. This is a set amount of money we each get to spend however we see fit. We don't even ask questions of each other about how it's spent.
For instance, my husband likes eating out at work. Instead of taking his lunch, he frequently spends some of his cash on food at work. His perogative. I don't get mad, even though it'd be cheaper for him to take lunch, because that's how he chooses to spend his money.
Similarly, I enjoy taking the kids to do fun stuff, like bowling. Since it's not a necessary expense, and he doesn't enjoy it, I spend my money on it. If there's something else I want, like a book or something, I can spend my cash on that instead.
So basically, if we agree on the expense, we pay for it out of our account, but if we don't, or we just don't want to discuss it, we spend our own cash.
There is absolutely zero chance either of us could overdraw our account by accident, because both of us know to the dime how much is in it at all times.
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quote:They were still good friends, but weren't where they wanted to be.
It dismays me to think that I, as an atheist, take my promises to God more seriously than this.
As a hardcore atheist myself, I find this statement confusing.
quote:Originally posted by imogen:
We don't have a prenup (not so common in Australia, anyway) but this thread has made me rethink some of my attitudes towards them.
Likewise with me. My intial gut reaction was 'That makes good sense, but I'll never ask my future hypothetical fiancee.' You see, I harbour an image of love that is romantic and idealistic in the extreme; 'there's one girl somewhere out there I was meant to be with, and once we meet I will dedicate my life to her absolutely'. The more rational half of my mind says that love is like a house you build with someone over time. Physical attraction can serve as a natural starting foundation, but the house is made of character, personal values and communication.
quote:I think if prenups were required by law, it would stifle many of the objections being raised to them. If it's a legal requirement, then trust certainly isn't the issue. And since the law has to decipher what belongs to whom in the event of divorce, it seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to require of a legal marraige contract.
Preups required by law is a horrible idea, mainly because no one has the information needed before a marriage to definitively say what they want to happen if that marriage ends. The law contains a "default" set of rules for dividing assets at the dissolution of a marriage, one that generally allows great flexibility to fit the resolution to the actual facts. Expecting people to bind themselves to an outcome without having any idea of what's really involved is unrealistic. Requiring it is wrong.
I'm also not sure a prenup makes divorces any easier to through or less contentious. I wonder if there's a study on that somewhere.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:I'm not selfish, I can hold my trip off till we find a better time. However, I have set this goal of mine in stone.
Aren't you confident that the woman you marry will understand that? I mean, I really, really like roleplaying games, but I didn't put "I get one night a month to game with friends" in a prenup.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Boon: And the idea of separate accounts never occurred to me.
I didn't mean that as a moral judgement. I just tend to go with the default option in most circumstances.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:When you introduce a prenup, not only are you insuring against a divorce, you are saying that you don't think that the person you are marrying is going to be reasonable throughout the divorce process. That's the kicker. How do you walk down the aisle if you don't have trust at this level?
Umm... I'm not sure that *I* would trust myself to be entirely reasonable throughout a divorce process. After watching friends break up, divorce and my parents divorce I have to say that during these situations people often think the other person is being unreasonable no matter what and the situation deteriorates from there.
I'm not sure what I think about prenups, especially since I'm a grad student so I don't really have any finances.
Posts: 872 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:I'm not selfish, I can hold my trip off till we find a better time. However, I have set this goal of mine in stone.
Aren't you confident that the woman you marry will understand that? I mean, I really, really like roleplaying games, but I didn't put "I get one night a month to game with friends" in a prenup.
I haven't had a gf since making that goal that didn't want to join in on it. So I guess I may be lucky in that aspect. I'm sorry if that is the point that is getting across though. But this trip means a lot to me. Over the past few years, I have gone completely broke setting aside money for this. I have since gotten out of that, now that I have a good solid base for things to work.
If she can't accept the fact that I like to be out of doors camping and the like, than I don't think I would want a life long commitment with them. I would kill myself if I were trapped inside of a house all day after work (excluding chores).
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote: Preups required by law is a horrible idea, mainly because no one has the information needed before a marriage to definitively say what they want to happen if that marriage ends. The law contains a "default" set of rules for dividing assets at the dissolution of a marriage, one that generally allows great flexibility to fit the resolution to the actual facts.
You raise valid points. Perhaps a default prenup, that mimicks the current laws, could be available to all. Then people still have to think about it and sign it. Now I don't think is likely to happen or anything, but it is something I would like to see.
quote: And the idea of separate accounts never occurred to me.
The first time I ever heard of seperate accounts was while watching the Joy Luck Club. I have to say I don't like the idea. Not wanting to share money seems like such a stark difference from what I perceive marraige to be. And Boon, I think your system sounds very wise and good. Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Kasie, I disagree on a fundemental level that who has more money automatically equals who has more power in the relationship. That has never been the determining factor in any of my relationships, and I have been on both sides of the wealth issue.
This is obviously a matter of personal opinion, but from a purely financial perspective I don't know how this cannot be the case. (Emotional power is another subject entirely.)
quote:Finally, I think saying you wouldn't want one normally but you would if the guy has kids from a previous marriage is pretty hypocritical. You're willing to combine lives and finances and what's mine is his and what's his is mine. . . except for if what's his includes providing for his children? To me, marriage includes shared responsibilities, including that of any dependants.
On this...you're probably right. I should amend what I said to include alimony toward the ex wife. But even this is hard to say just because it probably varies so much from one circumstance to another. In a case where my husband and his ex wife had an amicable, respectful relationship, I see few issues. But what if they had a bitter divorce and she goes vindictively after everything she can get her hands on? Then, well, I'd probably want one. And I feel like this wouldn't be an unreasonable or hypocritical thing, probably something the husband would want as well.
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:I'm not sure that *I* would trust myself to be entirely reasonable throughout a divorce process. After watching friends break up, divorce and my parents divorce I have to say that during these situations people often think the other person is being unreasonable no matter what and the situation deteriorates from there.
I guess I don't think that all people should get married or have kids. If you can't expect yourself to be reasonable, isn't there a bit of negligence involved in getting married to begin with?
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You might be surprised what a large proportion of the human race would be barred from marriage by your criteria, Irami.
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
It's not that I think that it should be illegal, but there is something immoral about getting married when you know you aren't emotionally equipped to handle it. It's not like drinking and driving, but in a way, it's kind of like drinking and driving.
posted
I'm not sure there's a single person on this earth who can be trusted to be reasonable in all circumstances.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Ah yes, since most people are at their most reasonable when dealing with people they love behaving in ways they don't like . . . rational is certainly a word I would use to express the way parents feel about their children . . . or the way people feel when someone they thought they would bury or would bury them decides to run off with a cocktail waitress . . .
quote:Originally posted by twinky: I'm not sure there's a single person on this earth who can be trusted to be reasonable in all circumstances.
I, OTOH, am quite certain that there is not one. Particularly if we're dealing with such stressful and emotionally fraught things as divorce and child-rearing.
I submit that anyone who truly thinks otherwise has not dealt with either.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Aren't divorce, losing a job, and death of a parent always the top three on those lists of most stressful things an adult can have to deal with? I find it absolutely ludicrous to say that no one should get married who isn't sure they can remain reasonable during a divorce, no matter the provocation.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
My husband and I do not have a prenup. We married in college so our assets were (and still are negligible). As far as who makes the most money, probably half the time he has, half the time I have and I could not even begin to guess how it will go in the future. So, we didn't see what good a prenup would actually do for us. But before we got married, I warned him that I would destroy him if need be to make sure our kids were ok. I figure that if we got a divorce, I wouldn't much like him, but I would still like the kids.
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by twinky: I'm not sure there's a single person on this earth who can be trusted to be reasonable in all circumstances.
I, OTOH, am quite certain that there is not one. Particularly if we're dealing with such stressful and emotionally fraught things as divorce and child-rearing.
I submit that anyone who truly thinks otherwise has not dealt with either.
Seconded, and thirded (my personality split just for this purpose!).
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by twinky: I'm not sure there's a single person on this earth who can be trusted to be reasonable in all circumstances. [/qb]
I, OTOH, am quite certain that there is not one. Particularly if we're dealing with such stressful and emotionally fraught things as divorce and child-rearing.
I submit that anyone who truly thinks otherwise has not dealt with either.
Isn't that sort of on the same hand? Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Amanecer: The first time I ever heard of seperate accounts was while watching the Joy Luck Club. I have to say I don't like the idea. Not wanting to share money seems like such a stark difference from what I perceive marraige to be.
Separate accounts doesn't necessarily mean not wanting to share money.
While my husband and I have separate accounts, we absolutely share money! We both buy groceries, pay the mortgage, petrol etc - whosever account we use is simply the one with the more money in it (and as I am paid monthly in arrears and Tony is paid fortnightly, this cycles). If one of us is running short in their account, the other will transfer money over. We use each other's EFTPOS cards and know each other's PINs. (Tony even lost my eftpos card and then found it an hour after I cancelled it - but that's another story).
We make financial decisions together and know what we're spending our money on. We just do it from two different accounts.
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posted
It makes me wonder why you two even have separate accounts, since you treat them as a single account.
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posted
I remember because it is essentially the same reason why my ex and I used to have two separate joint accounts -- both names on each, but one was "mine" and one was "his."
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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But the main one is we're lazy! These are the accounts we had before we met, and we've just never changed them.
Oh, also Tony has to have his account with a certain bank for work reasons (boring and convuluted). For whatever reason, he can't set up internet banking on that account. I have internet banking on my account and I like it.
So if we were to consolidate, I'd have to first make sure I could set up internet banking on Tony's account (which would probably stop him overdrawing so much) and then do it. And... meh. That's where laziness comes in again.
(We each pay about $5/year in bank fees - so the cons of separate accounts are pretty low).
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by scholar: My husband and I do not have a prenup. We married in college so our assets were (and still are negligible).
This describes us too ( and we've been out of college for 13 years). Once when we were fighting and DH wanted to throw in the towel, I told him we couldn't afford to divorce. He had to allow that while not impossible, we'd have to really, really hate each other to deal with the finacial repurcussions. I guess it's a wierd kind of security.
Posts: 2711 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
We didn't get one either. We couldn't afford it. That brings up the question, do those who can't afford them statistaclly need them more? Are they more or less prone to ugly divorces that leave one or both spouces financially devestated?
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I have a friend who is still married to her husband although she has not even seen him in five years. They have a son, and he owes her a ridiculous sum in child support, but apparently he moved across the country and takes under-the-table jobs, so no one can find him to nail him for that. She can barely pay rent, much less get a divorce.
I don't know what the point of that story was except that sometimes, crazy things happen.
posted
I'm still not understanding how having a prenup is a "realist" approach, when I'm saying that if you feel the need for a prenup you really shouldn't get married. To me, it sounds like these prenups lower the bar for what is acceptable amount of understanding one should have about the dedication entailed in marriage. If you are saying you responsible to get a prenup, and I'm saying that it's irresponsible for you to get married.
quote:I'm still not understanding how having a prenup is a "realist" approach, when I'm saying that if you feel the need for a prenup you really shouldn't get married.
Don't confuse Realist and Feel.
Many people have questionable feelings, easily confused by hormones, lies, and assumptions.
Your saying, "If you think you need a pre-nup you aren't committed enough to get married." is like saying "If you think you need car insurance, you aren't committed enough to safe driving to own a car."
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:I'm still not understanding how having a prenup is a "realist" approach, when I'm saying that if you feel the need for a prenup you really shouldn't get married.
Don't confuse Realist and Feel.
Many people have questionable feelings, easily confused by hormones, lies, and assumptions.
Your saying, "If you think you need a pre-nup you aren't committed enough to get married." is like saying "If you think you need car insurance, you aren't committed enough to safe driving to own a car."
You're also projecting. You see the difference between "I wouldn't marry someone who felt they needed a prenup" and "If you feel you need a prenup you shouldn't marry".
Posts: 2711 | Registered: Mar 2004
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They have a son, and he owes her a ridiculous sum in child support, but apparently he moved across the country and takes under-the-table jobs, so no one can find him to nail him for that. She can barely pay rent, much less get a divorce. 
